Disappointingly, I have to report that swapping the carbon canister did not make the smell of fumes go away.

Immediately after the canister was replaced, we took the boat with us on vacation, hoping the issue was resolved. However, we continued to smell the fumes, same as before.

Lund offered to have their local marine inspector take a look at the boat. Unfortunately, we’ve been hit with the cooler temp’s, shorter days, and less intense sunlight that comes with Fall where I live and so the smell of fumes is much less pronounced these days. Without the heat to build up the pressure and really exacerbate the problem, it would be a waste of everyone’s time to press for the inspection at this time.

So, it seems this issue will linger until the boat comes out of winter storage and the hot temp’s return next season.

One final note on the issue…Even though the hot temp’s haven’t been here, I can still smell fumes (much more faintly, of course) in all the same places.

At one point in the past couple/few weeks I opened the fuel compartment and sniffed around all the fittings I could access. Same as before, I smelled fumes around the foremost fitting (I think it’s a sender) and especially around the anti-siphon valve in the filler line (this is the same area fuel was detected way back towards the start at the first dealer I was working through – yet that dealer later recharacterized it as a “very, very, very faint odor of gasoline”).

I’m tempted to just start paying myself to have all the gaskets and that check valve replaced to see if/how that changes the situation. But, my fear is I’ll then be told by Lund it’s somehow no longer their responsibility because things are no longer “factory.”

If I ever find a resolution, I’ll report back in case it’s of benefit to anyone else who experiences the same in the future.

Meanwhile, thanks for all the comments and suggestions. You’ve all been very helpful.

After an unexpected delay in Lund shipping the part, it showed up at the dealer today and they did me a HUGE favor in getting it swapped ASAP. I’ll be picking the boat up tonight and we should know over the coming days/week if replacing the carbon canister does in fact alleviate the symptoms.

Despite a fair share of grumbling I may have about how long and uphill it’s been to get to this point, I do have to say that Lund and the dealer did a stand-up job getting this part replaced this week in short order.

Earlier this week, the owner of the shop where the boat currently is made a case against sealing all the fittings with Permatex as they had originally suggested, largely based on the notion that sealing the fittings in that way is a bit of a one-off hack. That is, it’s not factory standard nor an approach Lund would ever recommend in tackling an issue like this. He felt it may be asking for more trouble down the road than it’s worth. I agreed.

Meanwhile, despite corporate Lund telling me last week they were no longer going to help me with this issue, I was contacted by a Lund “Compliance Specialist.” After a bit of back-and-forth in reviewing the problem history, he arranged for a replacement carbon canister (part of the external fuel venting system) to be overnighted to the dealer and authorized them to swap it out. They’re testing a theory that the current canister may be somehow defective. Waiting to hear back from the dealer that the canister has been swapped and then I guess we’ll find out if it has any (hopefully positive) impact on the situation.

Fingers crossed…

KPE wrote:

Do you have a kicker? Problem appears to be at your port side primarily, maybe you have a tee installed somewhere for a kicker and it’s leaking?

I think your gas tank is center of the floor, right behind the in-floor storage is that correct for a crossover? then your fill is at port side? Perhaps the fill neck has a leak such that you are saturating some foam when you fill it?

Good thoughts and thanks for the suggestions. The boat is rigged for a kicker, but no kicker currently on board. Yes, there’s a T in the hose network for the kicker. Yes, the tank is center, behind the in-floor storage locker and, yes, filler is on the port side.

Everything you suggest seem possible culprits. However, the pattern that has emerged seems to draw attention most to the tank fittings. That’s where noses have smelled fumes and that’s where the gas leak detector has indicated the highest levels of fumes to date.

I think the tie-in between the port-after jumpseat and the higher levels of fumes detected there is that the fill and vent lines pass under the port-aft jumpseat on their way to the fuel compartment.

It makes sense to me that if the fittings are leaking, the fumes building up will escape the tank compartment in highest concentration out the largest opening in that compartment.

I’m guessing that’s the opening those two lines pass through on their way through the area under the port-aft jumpseat. That said, I don’t have a good visual on what that opening looks like, making an assumption here.

The boat is back at the dealer now. They’re going to seal all fittings with Permatex and we’ll see what happens with the fumes from there.

If it measurably reduces/eliminates the fumes, it will be a good indication the problem all along has been the fittings, the gaskets, and/or the tank openings. Not sure how we’ll determine which, other than simply start replacing parts at that point and take it step-by-step until we hit the right ones. Sigh.

Disappointingly, despite the problem history and the objective diagnostics provided by the gas leak detector, Lund has effectively given me the brush off, stating I need to “work through the dealership from here,” because “the boat has passed the inspection.”

I’m appx. 3-1/2 months in to a brand new Lund, where for nearly the past 2-1/2 months the smell of gas fumes has made the boat unsafe to operate. Apparently, Lund doesn’t see this as having any responsibility here.

In any case, the dealership I’m currently working with has been very accommodating and we’re putting heads together trying to determine the best course of action from here.

I think we’re leaning towards putting some Permatex (I’m not familiar with it) on all the tank fittings to see if that has an impact in reducing the fumes. If it does, then clearly an issue lies among the fittings, gaskets, and/or tank openings. Of course, then we have to proceed in figuring out exactly which part(s) are faulty from there.

What a nightmare!!! Never imagined we’d experience anything like this in purchasing a brand new Lund!

For those who appreciate pictures more than words, below are some gas leak detector readings from around the boat at different times and conditions over this past weekend. And, this weekend wasn’t particularly hot & sunny near me (in fact it was mostly cloudy & breezy, with only a handful of hazy sun each day).

I’ve pretty much come to the end of my patience with Lund telling me there is not issue and the boat is safe to operate. At this point, I’m asking them to immediately begin replacing parts, since their diagnostics to date (on the order of 2 mo’s) have uncovered nothing.

My initial thought is to replace all gaskets on all tank connections. It’s easy, it’s cheap, and it’s reasonable given that’s where one of the dealer’s and I smelled fuel and that’s where the gas leak detector indicated a stronger presence of fuel during the pressure test.

With respect to the readings shown in the pictures, they’re measurements of %LEL.

“When a substance is in the air in a concentration above its LEL and below the UEL, extreme danger of sudden explosion or flash-over is present…Generally, any level above 25% of the LEL in the open air is considered a hazardous situation. In a confined space, that safe level drops to 10% of the LEL…Example: Gasoline has an LEL of 1.4%, a UEL of 7.6%…In a confined area, above -45 degrees F, gasoline fumes that exceeded .14% of the atmosphere would be considered a hazardous situation and all personnel should be immediately removed. If the gasoline fumes are between 1.4% (14,000 ppm) and 7.6% (76,000 ppm) then any sort of ignition source, i.e. spark of some kind, could cause the atmosphere to ignite or explode,” Worker’s Right-To-Know Law, Chemicals in Workplace.

Attachments:

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   In-Floor-Storage-Adjacent-Fuel-Compartment-1.jpg
   

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   External-Vent-for-Reference-2.jpg
   

3. 

   Under-Port-Aft-Jumpseat-Leaving-Sensor-in-Compartment-with-Seat-Closed.jpg
   

4. 

   Cover-On-Through-Bow-Cleat-Flap.jpg
   

ClownColor wrote:

Pressure and temperature are proportionally related. If they pressurized your gas line and sealed it off, and the ambient temp increased through the test, you’d expect the pressure to increase as well…and that’s actually a good sign of a sealed system.

I can appreciate the temperature-pressure relationship. In this particular case, I can’t say the air in the shop was likely changing in any measurable way (test was early morning, boat had been inside since overnight, steady temp during the test). However, I had wondered about the possible impact of removing the fuel from the tank immediately prior to the test.

I’d imagine that fuel, having sit overnight, was a bit of a heat sink while in the tank. Maybe removing the fuel caused the plastic to suddenly start warming to the temp of the air?

If this is par for the course with pressure tests, though, how would one ever know the difference between the following:

A. A good, solid indication of no leak in the system;
B. A faulty gauge;
C. A minor leak that’s causing the tank to lose pressure slower than the change in temp is causing it to gain? (e.g., gain of .1 psi/min due to temp – loss of .05 psi/min due to leak == net gain of .05 psi/min)

Guess I had hoped the pressure test was a much more conclusive test, subject to few, if any, variables. I guess I’ve learned that a pressure test (alone) is not? Or, is there better way to conduct them that improves the ability to interpret the results in reliable fashion?

After long last, the fuel system pressure test was conducted today. Although it did take quite awhile to materialize and there were a few hiccups in getting it going, it ultimately happened nonetheless.

Trying to keep it brief, the test concluded with the service center declaring more/less “no leak – boat safe to operate”.

My lingering concerns are:

1. While pressure didn’t drop during the test, it didn’t hold steady either. Instead, the pressure INCREASED continuously during the test. After first being pressurized, the digital pressure gauge Lund provided in their test kit climbed steadily from something like 1.5 psi to 2.5 psi when pressure was finally relieved. Is this normal/expected/explainable?

2. I managed to get my hands on an “industrial type” gas leak detector rated for use with gasoline, something a fireman or gas co. might use to identify/trace a leak. The service center ran the detector over the top of tank connectors while pressurized and they all (well, at least the two senders and the fill inlet with attached check valve) set off the detector. A soap/water mix was then applied and there was no _obvious_ sign of a big leak at those points. Still, the detector said there were fumes at each. Anyone have a theory for that?

In any case, since there’s nothing more the service center can/will do for now on this and they’re satisfied the increasing pressure == no leak, I’ve got the boat back in my possession. Since I’ve got the gas detector, I at least have something to give me an idea “how bad” things are before starting the engine and I guess I’ll just monitor going forward.

Guess I was just hoping for a more conclusive result to the test…Something like an absolutely steady pressure reading and absolutely no fumes detected throughout.

@Hot Runr Guy: Thanks for any contribution you may have had in ultimately getting Lund to follow through on the pressure test.

For the record, Lund notified me today they’ve made the decision to authorize the pressure test to be done at the dealer where the boat currently sits.

I’ll report back with the findings in case they are of any use to someone else down the road.

I’ve been thinking more about this theory that the fumes could be due to gasoline making its way to the filter in the external vent line…If gasoline were indeed reaching the filter and saturating it, anyone have a theory as to how residual fumes would be escaping into the below-decks compartments?

I’d think any fumes in the filter itself would vent out thru the hull they way they’re supposed to. If instead they’re venting from the filter to the interior of the boat, I’d think that would indicate there’s a leak in the system somewhere. That is, whether the fumes are from the gas in the tank or from gas in the vent filter, they should both vent exterior to the boat the same way, if the fuel system is working the way it should be.

Anyone have any particular insight that might explain otherwise?

@Hot Runr Guy Seems your ESP is finely-tuned.

Just got an e-mail from Lund stating they’d authorized a pressure test and “sent a kit” for the work. Unfortunately, they arranged everything with the previous dealer / service center I was working with and no one bothered to bring me into the loop.

I’m now working to see if Lund can redirect the “kit” and work authorization to the dealer / service center where the boat currently sits. Hopefully, that’s an easy switch.

Hot Runr Guy wrote:

Matt,
I understand that your hull may be going back to the dealer to have the tanks and lines pressure-tested, hopefully you can be present for it and confirm the results.
Lund wants this resolved just as much as you do.

@Hot Runr Guy That’s news to me. It has been a week since I’ve heard anything from Lund on this issue.

In the meantime, I drove an hour to the next closest Lund authorized dealer / service center this past weekend and dropped the boat for a second (technically third) look.

I’m told on Monday they performed a physical inspection of all hoses and connections and didn’t find any obvious problems in that regard. They let it sit Tuesday and then sniffed around the boat again today and said they’re not smelling any fuel at this point. I’ll obviously take another look (er, sniff) with them when I pick it up and see if we’re in agreement.

They have a theory that fuel might have gotten into the filter cartridge in the external vent line and that could have been the source of the fumes, taking time to ultimately dry up and fully dissipate, which perhaps it did while in their possession.

Anyone else have experience to help support this theory? Should I expect this to be a regular occurrence? Any known steps to prevent this from happening? And, if this is a regular occurrence, how would one tell the difference between “an expected amount of fumes” and “a dangerous amount of fumes” in this case?

Thanks again to all for the helpful comments offered.

Iowaboy1 wrote:

I just watched two of my best friends die from a house explosion a couple of months ago, they both had third degree burns over 50% percent of their body.
both died from the injuries after living for two weeks, good thing they were in a medical induced coma so they didnt suffer.

@iowayboy That is a horrific story and I am sorry for all involved. It is a stark reminder of how seriously a combustible gas leak (of any size and nature) should be taken.

On a related note, there’s this story from just last weekend: https://www.thealpenanews.com/news/local-news/2021/07/alpena-couple-loses-boat-not-love-for-lake-huron/

Obviously, there are times when the unexpected happens without warning, despite best efforts. However, there are other times when clues present themselves that can head off a looming catastrophe if only they are picked up on and taken seriously.

It’s stories like these that are like a slap in the face saying, “Pay Attention!!!”

@eyekatcher Thanks for the additional insights.

FYI: I sniffed around the boat cover and wall/flooring materials close to the fuel filler, but don’t detect fumes in those places specifically.

The most consistent area where I detect fumes (and where they’re the strongest) is under the port-aft jump seat.

On my last trip to the local Lund service center, the service mgr and one of his tech’s removed the fuel compartment hatch in my presence.

Though the service center’s story has apparently since changed in this regard (or, perhaps how they characterize what they smelled doesn’t meet Lund’s standards for authorizing more objective diagnoses of the fuel system – I’m not sure which), all 3 of us agreed there was an odor of gasoline in the general area where the fill line attaches to the tank (I also smelled fumes near one of the other connections, but to a lessor degree).

That area of the fuel compartment, where the fill line attaches to the tank, happens to be immediately adjacent to the area under the port-aft jump seat I referenced above. Pretty strong coincidence there’s a problem in that area of the fuel system, I think.

Even after leaving all hatches/seats open yesterday afternoon (which was quite a breezy), that same general area under the port-aft jump seat continues to smell of fumes. If it were just the result of some spillover, I would’ve expected the odor to dissipate and not return until the next spillover.

eyekatcher wrote:

it comes out the overflow/ filler area
and is wicked up by the boat cover
and then drips on the carpet.
smells for a week.
doesn’t happen when I raise the bow a cinder block higher under the jack.

@eyekatcher Is this with a full tank on hot days? Or, full tank no matter the weather, dependent solely on boat pitch?

I’ve never seen liquid fuel anywhere, but do wonder if the situation you describe could be similar to what’s happening in my case. I’ll take a closer look (er, sniff) around the boat cover and carpet near the areas the fumes are strongest.

Thanks again to all who’ve chimed in. Since starting the thread, I have exchanged some e-mails with Lund directly and am hopeful I’m on track to get to the bottom of what’s going on and have the issue(s) properly resolved.

@eyekatcher I find your comments intriguing.

Where I park my boat at my house does leave the boat listing _slightly_ to starboard – not a ton, but you can tell the concrete the trailer sits on tilts that way a bit (by design, actually, because the concrete runs up against a building on the port side).

Add to that, I am generally in the habit of refilling on my return from the lake. So, when parked at my house, the tank is generally full.

I’ve heard of others having fuel backflow out the filler or vent while refueling – that has never happened to me. I’ve never seen a hint of liquid gas anywhere inside or outside the hull, nor running from the transom drain.

Are you suggesting that perhaps in the right situation, a full tank pitched in just the right direct might send liquid fuel into an area of the fuel system it doesn’t normally sit in and THAT might cause a lingering fuel smell?

I’ll have to give that more thought to see if/how that might fit my scenario. Any additional specifics on that scenario I should take into account?

On a related note, at the service center’s suggestion I did take the boat out this past weekend (very cautiously) and run a couple/few gallons out of it. Waiting to see if there’s going to be a change in the odor. So far, I cannot say there’s been any change.

Thanks to all for the replies. Lots of food for thought as I try to navigate my way forward.

Being that it’s a new boat, I definitely need to exhaust all options with Lund (and then some) so as to not void my warranty or as one contributor warned: create an even bigger problem.

I’m currently focusing on trying to clear the “we don’t smell gas” hurdle and conclude that what I’m smelling is or is not gas (or other? combustible) fumes once-and-for-all.

I thought I was on to something when I came across a handheld “combustible gas leak detector” from Klein Tools, but it turns out most such (affordable) tools are intended/reliable for methane only.

My next thought is maybe I should invest in a marine gas vapor detector, like an inboard boat would have? Although it wouldn’t alert me to the presence of _any_ amount of gas fumes, it would at least let me know when I’m over 20% the Lower Explosive Limit and in a potentially dangerous situation.

Anyone ever install one of these in their Lund or similar boat? Any brands/model to recommend / stay clear of? Any caveats to consider when installing and selecting a location for the sensor? Of course, I wouldn’t want to break the bank for a problem that shouldn’t be there in the first place, but at least I might find peace of mind in using the boat unless/until the alarm sounds.