What a beast……Let me know when you are going again and I’ll run up for a quick visit!

It will happen!

Slack….I am just curious….

What is your idea of hunting? What have I done that’s so wrong in your opinion?

Cause I used attractants and feeders to harvest my deer? Or was it the Crossbow and pop up blind that you didnt like. You know, It is kinda sneaky of me shooting those hungry deer from a dark little tent… Maybe it was the muzzy broadhead that’s made from razor sharp strong steel thats attached to a carbon arrow bolt that flies like a laser at 325 fps from a crossbow that offended you. Could it have been my no scent soap or Gortex camo clothing that gave me a un fair advantage. Probably didn’t use real hunting methods since I wasn’t sneaking up on them wearing buckskin, moccasin’s and toting a long bow with wooden arrows and flint arrowheads.

Where do you draw the line on methods, tactics, and evolution?

If you object to attracting deer just to kill them…..This opens up the age old debate about whats really baiting. Baiting vs feeding. Feeding vs attracting. Some other unfair methods I am sure you are aware of include…

deer decoys
food plots
corn fields
acorn trees
water holes
mineral licks
apple trees
moc scrapes
doe in estros
Heck even rattling and grunt calls trick deer into being drawn in like a chicken and killed.
etc….

If I poured out some doe pee and some party mix and killed a deer at each one, what would be the difference?

ummmmm. One thing I know for sure now that I am in this business and talk to folks everyday is…..There are a lot of “closet baiters” out there! Folks that “don’t want their buddies to find out they are using mineral, doe pee, corn or attractant to help get a edge on killing a deer.

Also, there are a lot of folks that want to know how to use feed and attractants correctly. My video helps both groups. It does not sugar coat any part of the hunt and is kinda inflammatory to some but thats just the way it is.

Sorry if you dis agree with my methods of attracting deer.

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Jeff – I noticed in the video that you dumped your Party Mix right next the feeder. What are the advantages of using the Party Mix versus just spreading the Pro Antler Deer Feed on the ground? Is it more of an attractant?

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I positioned the attractant closer to the blind to get a better shot at the doe. 15 yards is a lot better then 25! It worked like a champ…..The deer love the smell of the PARTY MIX and its proven in this video… It pulled her in as soon as she entered the feed location!

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SLACK – we all hunt for different reasons and one is not more important than another. We also hunt by different methods as well and one is not better than another. To each their own as long as it’s done legally. Hunters have to stop bashing other hunters and instead unite together so we can focus our efforts and energy while we fight against the anti-hunters. It’s easy to forget the big picture.

Great video Jeff and congrats on the doe! I’m guessing the boys will be happy because they get to eat more venison jerky!

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Well said Brad…..The doe is at the locker plant and my father in law has already put in his summer sausage order!

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i really like the part were he talks about “TRAINING THE DEER TO EAT OUT OF THE FEEDER” are you kidding me, it’s no wonder “todays modern hunter” has no clue.

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There are lots of people that would like to use protein feed at certain time of the year to supplement their deer. Some of these folks have a hard time getting deer to eat out of a free choice gravity feeder. Thats why I put that tip in there! Glad you learned something.

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This has been one of the most educational threads I have seen in a while . There are plenty of great minds that frequent this site and I can’t help but to think about what changes to make next spring! One question I have with supplemental feeding, ( I understand there are thousands of variables) is How many feeders per 240 acres,
how many lbs per day and do you switch the feed throughout the season to give them what they need when they need it most? Lastly… what would it cost per day for a minimalist approach to running 4 or so feeders? How often do you need to fill the feeders and how do you access them with a couple hundred lbs of food through 2′ of drifted snow? I am not trying to hammer anyone for specific answers when I can’t provide the ideal holding capacity but am intrigued by the idea and need to figure out if it can fit in the budget .

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My answer would be……

1) Start small, not big. Learn as you go….

2)Get a buck to doe ratio calculation at one feeder. Place this feeder in the middle of you farm. Deer will travel 1/2 to 3/4’s of a mile about any day to feed if there is a good food source. Don’t be shy about putting this feeder where its easy to access either. Make it as easy on yourself as possible. Over time the deer will get accustomed to you driving in and filling it up.

3)If you are seriously considering a free choice feeding program do not settle on anything less than a 600 lb feeder or you will be spending all your time this winter and next summer filling it up.

4)Your deer herd will tell you how much feed your going to need. This is why you should start small and not get burned out quick. One good feeder location is a lot better than 4 bad ones.

5) My budget would be from now until spring green up to start with. If you can afford more than that keep feeding with the understanding that usually in the spring the consumption will decrease until about August then it will increase again in the fall.

6) In the winter I would figure the deer up north would eat around 3 to 4 lbs of Pro Antler each per day. Once you start, you need to stay committed until the deer have access to a lot of nutritious green browse in the spring. I think you will be amazed at the health of the deer going into the spring.

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Jeff,
Something I learned last weekend from Todders is we need to get as many statistics from our deer as possible. I’ll be honest, we’ve never weighed a deer in my life. Because the deer in our region roam so much, we have a hard time knowing which deer are “our” deer. Can you suggest other ways to learn more about “our” herd. I was thinking maybe trying to get the neighbors on board with weighing etc…

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1) How much land do you all have access to?
2) What are your objectives or goals?

These are the first questions that need to be addressed. #2 is a doozie….A lot of thought must go into your objectives in order for someone like me to understand what you are trying to get accomplished and recommend techniques and products to help you meet them.

It sounds like you are very much on the right track in my opinion and your hard work has and will continue to pay off.

I look at my properties like this…..

1) Security cover is a must have. Its the most important variable in deer management in my opinion. Especially for large adult deer.

2) Water is vital to their survival.

3) Good browse is also vital to their survival.

4) Supplemental feeding in almost every open range situation with protein, mineral or vitamins is not a necessity its a luxury. Extreme cold, snow, and ice are exceptions that take the lives of whitetail deer anally. Supplemental feeding in these situations can help deer survive.

5) Man made manipulation with supplemental feed and protein is a serious matter but one lots of folks take seriously. No one wants to harm their deer herd….The correct ratios of protein, vitamins, mineral and trace mineral can enhance a deers health and antler growth but we as stewards of the lands need to make sure we are feeding products that don’t harm our wildlife in the long run. Studying deer nutrition can help folks get a basic understanding of the ruminant digestive system and how it absorbs nutrients. Antler growth is a truly remarkable thing. How a buck can process these nutrients and turn them into 150 to 200 inches of antler in 6 to 7 months is a remarkable feat that fascinates us to the core……

6) Longevity in supplemental feeding programs is where the BIG dividends will pay off. These animals need to be harvested correctly with each managers goals in mind.

7) Buck to doe ratios are important and this brings me to genetics. Everyone wants their prize bull breeding their cows and we want our most magnificent bucks to do most of the breeding in their territory ensuring they pass along superior genetics. A very high doe ratio can:
A. Deplete high quality natural browse causing all deer to suffer. This puts more stress on a supplemental feeding program.
B. Compete for supplemental feed causing the feed bill to skyrocket.
C. Overpopulate a area after they have had access to supplemental feeding. More and healthier does mean more and healthier fawns that have access to high quality milk and feed.
D. Be bred by any buck that comes along at the right time ensuring the genetics from dominant animals do not get passed along.

There will be many folks read our posts that will stay in the shadows. Readers will agree, disagree or have no opinion on our goals. The most important things folks need to do take away from this is supplemental feeding done correctly is a great thing if you enjoy benefiting deer herds year around. It keeps our eyes open. It keeps our dreams alive. It keeps us involved with whitetail deer and the thought deer hunting the first cool fall days of the new season. Its whitetails…..365 days a year…..

Good question, and one I am going to add to the Nutra Deer website.

Well comparing deer in WI and MN to Deer in the non Ag areas of NE OK is kinda like comparing a orange to a grapefruit. Both look about the same but there are some really HUGE differences in the two…..There are deer in Canada that make our OK deer look like dogs and crazy as it seems our OK deer in NE OK are larger than some in the South and Eastern parts of the country. The age, nutrition and genetics of a buck do matter on mass to some degree, but our deer will never have the mass yours do.

This is a very BIG subject and one that can cause quite a lot of debate but bottom line is the whitetail subspecies look about the same in general but differ a lot in body weights, antler mass and size, fawn weights, etc.

FYI: There are at least 6 different subspecies of whitetail deer in North America that have evolved over time to master the regional climates they must live in. The farther North you go the bigger the deer. THe bigger the body size of the deer is proportional with the antler mass they grow out of their big heads to some degree.

When you feed supplemental protein and mineral you have to:
1) Understand the basic herd anatomy you are dealing with in your geographic region.

2) Only measure your results against deer from the same geographic region.

3) Document the size of the animals regarding body weights and antler sizes from year to year to show a true picture of the supplemental feedings results. The most productive way to accomplish this is if you have some basic understanding of your deer herd before you start your supplemental feeding program.

Everyone has to measure supplemental feeding results against average deer from their geographic area. You can not measure results against freakishly huge deer or below average deer from your area.

I hope I shed some light on the differences between your deer and ours. I wish we naturally had the mass your deer do, but I think they would look very disproportionate with the heads of our 150 lb bucks! I feed protein and mineral to try and turn those skinny wide racks to more massive racks!

Might I ask, how do you use supplements, what your results consist of, and how have you documented them? I quote from your post….
“I supplement seemingly much less than you; and I see great results, whether its from the mineral supplement or not.”

Thanks for a great question an one that will help lots of other folks!

Wow! looks great…

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Its a decent buck anyway you look at it Jeff.

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You bet….Especially when you just turned 11!

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Very nice buck Jeff with nice mass on his mainbeams, did you get any measuremnts on him?

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No we have not….We usually don’t score um……We might if we ever get to BC levels but for now we are just happy lookin at um.

Very cool…..She will look good on the table!

WOW! Thats a fine buck….I’ve got to hunt Canada sometime!

Good luck with those bucks next year….

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Great video Randy! It’s easy to tell that hunting to you is just not about the kill.

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+1

Congrats on a fine buck!

Kirk is a fine fella! Ask him about the time his does licked the Party Mix off my fingers! It was very cool.

Good luck with that big fella!

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Thank you mrjigger for not only understanding why we hunt, but also for having the ability to eloquently put it into words.

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+1

Burr….But worth it! Congrats on a super deer!

WOW! Nice buck….Congrats to Dad!

Good times is what its all about! Congrats to you and thanks for reminding us of the important reasons we hunt.

Beautiful place to hunt and very nice deer! Congrats

Good Luck Kooty but dang………0. Your tougher that I.

Those temps kinda hard on us wimps from the south!

Very cool!

Great deer!

Sweet!

Its a HUGE bummer what your trail camera fails.

Glad you got one that is working for you now! Keep those pics coming.

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That last one is a stud !

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X3……Good Luck!

We are going to try and get the boy a crack at this deer during Muzzleloader season here in OK this weekend!

Buck didn’t grow much from last year and will be a great deer for Haydn!