Tony,
When you compare country life with City, there must be SOME things you DONT miss. I also lived on a farm, and loved it, but the commute to any gainfull employment was 45 mnts one way. Then, goods and services were also out of reach. Sure, that made you plan your trips well, but it sure is nice to be able to just run down to the local store without it being an exscursion. And you did it for your family. I have extensive family scattered throuought Iowa. Thier livelyhoods are all ag-related, and they are all hurting. My cousin hanged himself during the 80’s farm crisis, I think he took the “get big or get out” mantra a little too literal. Others are barely getting by. If it wasnt for inherited land they are on, they wouldnt make it. There is NO future for youngens in that environment. Since they have taken the CULTURE out of agriculture, and the AG is now missing from the culture, whats left? You can always go back. But for now, take what the city has to offer. Get your kids educated, and socialized with others. One thing I learned was that now that I am a city slicker, I appreciate the outdoors more. I am now more active in conservation efforts than I was when I was a country boy. Time outdoors, in a countrysetting is now worth as much as a pay check!! I take what they have to offer in the City, but still realize the best part of living here is leaving for the weekend!!!
It does take some getting used to though. Here are some tips to adjust: Red one piece long johns are NOT fashionable. Carhart wannabe workwear is IN. If you havent found out already….you can no longer shoot dinner from the front porch. The Police take that very seriously. If you want to blend in NEVER carry anything in the bed of your pickup. Those are waxwagons, and no longer used to haul anything except groceries. And….they made me get rid of my Rooster, but I found out, I can have hens within the city limits!!! But seriously…you can take the boy from the farm, but you cant take the farm from the boy. My Dad of 76 years old left the farm for Korea. He came back, moved to the city to attend college. He got a job in industry, and through the years, raised 7 kids. Two went to med school, and 2 own thier own businness’s
In contrast, his brother stayed on the farm in Iowa. He died in his 50’s, literally worked himself to death. Some would say, the product of farm life is its people. It sure was a humble way to make a living, but those days are gone.
Your experience made you what you are. Your kids are now within reach of an experience they wouldnt have had before. Now its up to you to teach them BOTH. In the process, it will make you a whole person. Good Luck to you!

Bomber, They remained silent once the cuffs came out. One resisted verbally, but later shut up. Remaining silent, in the eyes of these guys,( LE) was considered obstruction They refused to consent to a search of a vehicle that did not belong to them. Thus, the dogs were brought in. They also found a “weapon”. A camp hatchet, and a 4″ knife, in its sheath, both out of reach. At that time, they had all the cause they needed to do anything they wanted. I was gone no longer than an hour and half. In that time, I came back once to get a beer, and return to the other campsite. The boys were just sitting around cooking something on a stick, which was later described as “suspicious activety”
They got ruff with me because I asked what initiated contact in the first place. They said it was because of registration. ( Rangers do not register, the resident host does, and I had already made contact with him) When I tried to explain this, they began ordering me around, where to stand, not to move, etc. I informed them that I was the registrar of the campsite, and any dealing with that issue should be taken up with me, in other words, if I am registered, your business is done here. That is when they became beligerent. I was later told by the lawyer that is exactly what you should do. be polite, but firm, and do not provoke. If they initiated contact to investigate why the site did not have a tag, that is where it should have ended. Instead, they said that during a routine driveby, they saw the site did not have a tag ( it didnt 2 days before that either) so they decided to investigate ( again, they dont register, and its not uncommon for a site not to be registered until the following day. Upon approaching the site, they noticed “two young males”, one doing “suspicious activety” so they decided to set up survelience.
The suspicious activety, and “weapons” are things that can be found in any campsite!!!
Hence, the jist of this whole subject!!!! A bear shits in the woods, and they need to run around and tell everyone, while doing that, they allege illegal activety ( observed, while telling of lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my), then, you have to jump through hoops to get it resolved.
Its also amazing, that this was in the middle of nowhere, yet within a very short time, a Canine was there, with 2 other DNR Squads. We later find out, its business as Usual for these Rangers. Just another Saterday night protecting citizens from themselves
Whhops, forgot a juicy one…. Even when it was explained about drinking earlier, they still breathalized them, after the fact. I asked why, and they told me it was to make sure none of them required hospitalization. ( no kidding)
Geeze, last year I fell asleep by the fire. When I woke up, I had a funney taste in my mouth. I wonder if the DNR was there to check on me, to make sure I didnt need hospitalization. My shorts were down and there was a rubber glove nearby, but most of you wouldt have a problem with that, after all, they are here to protect and to serve!!!

wow, read on ignorant…laws were not broken, or even the appearance was not there. They were NOT drinking, without my presence…END OF THAT part, ok? Thanks for the parenting skill sermon, I already defended that issue.
And the Kayak….ever been in one?
Any fishing gear would HAVE to be visible. A guy clipping along at just under wake with both hands on the paddle is clearly NOT fishing. The life jacket is on, in plain view, hence NO NEED for contact. No further jurisdiction here, unless you want to chat, which I choose not to. Sure, they CAN, but does mean they SHOULD? Get the 2 clear!!!

And thanks for the example of sitting on a boat on a summer day.
In July, of ’08 at least 5 pontoon boats are tied together out on very large Lake Minocqoa.

An occupant of ONE of the boats is smoking pot. The DNR observes this from almost a half mile away, again, with a high tech camera. The person is filmed in the act. After 45 minutes of filming everyone, they make contact. EVERYBODIES boats and personal belongings are searched, not just the boat who’s occupant was violating ( a non fish and game law) One of the unrelated boaters ( who didnt even know the offender) was taken to shore to have his vehicle searched on unrelated allegations.
During THAT court proceeding, it was accidentally revealed just how many boaters they had filmed that day!!!!
The Town Of Minocqoa wanted a camera like that, but the Townspeople thought they would abuse it, so they denied funding for such things. The DNR , on the other hand, asks for such technology, for “fish and Game violators”, yet they use it to film Bikini clad boaters, or people sitting around a campfire.
Hence, the “general brush” used to paint the DEPT ( Wisconsins) as a whole, and not the actions of a few sloppy officers. This is built in to the mentality, and admitted by management. It is a “command and controll” issue, as stated by Scott Hasstert who left the DNR as its Secretary, because of such behavior
some of you might be tired of this subject, nobdy is forcing you to follow it. I do respect other peoples experiences, as positive. The point is not to try and change someones opinion. The last few posts are responses to ignorance, and would not be necessary. You try and have an intelligent conversation, and someone either attacks your grammer and sentence structure, or takes something totally out of context, or thier realm of knowledge, and runs with it as if it was fact!!!

Slack, you asked why the legal fees?
For one, they wore us down. The 3 trips we made were a few of many reguired. It was interfereing with everything at home, so we gave up and had a lawyer do it.
For the sake of clarity, there were other charges made AFTER the Rangers illegally made first contact. Those charges were also dismissed, but had to be challeneged in court.
You can get a court appointed attourney ( public defender) who is usually incompetent. They will usually try to get you to settle to a lesser charge. Also, you have to make like under $25k a year or something like that to qualify.
How do you tell someone they should plead guilty to a lesser charge of something they didnt do?
And for others: I didnt leave the “park” or the”children” unattended. At 19 and 20 yrs old we left the babysitter at home.
I was a couple of thousand feet away, in another loop of the same campground. I saw all the squads go by, never dawned on me what was going on until they started throwing people around, and the dogs went nuts
For those that are remotely interested: This reveals a whole system that goes on daily. They charge you with something, and make it a mandatory appearance for the defendant, even to plead guilty or not guilty, something you can usually do by mail. Then, contrary to the norm, they schedule a “pretrial”. This is nothing but a practice run for the DA, to see what kind of case he has. Totally unfair, but mandatory appearance also> Then, there is supposed to be the trial, but nope, the DA calls a conference…again, mandatory appearance. 15 mnts of posturing, then an offer is made to take a lesser charge. Nope, not doin it, I want a trial, so 2 months pass, then, the DA calls another conference….and so it goes. They clearly try and wear you down
They did not have a case, and they knew it. The DA was trying to get the kids to incriminate themselves. Why? because during the arrest, once the cuffs came out, they refused to cooperate. They did not incriminate themselves that night, so the DA tried to get them to admit to false statements made by DNR staff after the fact, and not on the report.
If the tables were turned, I would not be able to admit any incidents in court unless they were on the incident report. There were many incidents of that nature, that were not cited, such as the use of the canine units.
Through a special consultation between a hired lawyer and the DA, it was determined that the incident report was inaccurate. If I had not gotten the lawyer, I would have never gotten that far. Any attempts by us to contact the SAME DA, were refused by that office.
See how they work?
It all costs time and money.
And when you look back at what they accomplished, or try to, its a total waste of taxpayer money and time.
That night, 3 Rangers had to log 3 hours of OT. The County Sherrif Canine Unit ( totally unecessary) was used and billed ( to us). Then, 3 DNR Trucks making a Round Trip to Eagle River ( 60 miles each)….for what?

Thank You Big G, You can see how a subject like this can go into just about any direction.
Suddenly, I am attacked for letting a 19 and 20 y/o have a few beers around the fire.
I have too much time on my hands today, as it is the mud season here ( not enough ice or open water to do anything)
hence, I keep the thread going….
Anyways, having enlisted, can you imagine what this incident did to us?
The kid enlisted, wich was kind of unpopular among my side of the family. ( Attack me now)
Anyways, its one of the Last weekends left before he begins training. The other is enrolled in College.
How do you explain to someone who just signed on the dotted line to run off to some godforsaken country and protect other peoples freedom, when here at home, look what happened?? For crissakes, the kid has 2 beers with dinner, and a few hours later, his status is in jeopordy. His whole future went up in smoke, the same with the other one. Its hard as hell to get into a good college, and heaven forbid, if you have any infractions on your record, they use that to cull the herd. Two peoples lifes went up in smoke for having a beer earlier, and then later being approached and blamed for a pile of 2 day old beer cans from 2 previous nights of camping.
Innoceant until proven otherwise? It took 3 round trips of 280 miles each to make various court appearances, to spend less than 15 minutes each to talk to a DA. That interferes with Guard Duty, College studies, and work schedules.
That on top of the lingering psychological effects.
That Campground/campsite was full of memories. I had been taking them Boy’s, and thier friends there for years. Some of the best times in our lives has been spent there.
Now everyone in our group hates it. Nobody has any desire to go back there, or to that entire area, which is LOADED with outdoor recreation.
When I read ( and investigated) the stories of others within that same Ranger district, I can no longer feel comfortable camping there.
We found, through court proceedings, that they routinely use high tech survelience on law biding citizens.
In one case, a warning of a Bear nearby was probable cause to enter a campsite, and proceed with an investigation into unrelated allegations of illegal activety.
Hence, the need to re-iterate what probable cause really means.
As it stands, a bear in the woods is grounds to make contact, even with a camera.
There will always be bears in the woods!!!
Unless stopped, they can always barge into a campsite , shine a light on a pile of cans, allege that you smell of beer, and make an arrest. Even when they admitted they never saw them drink!!
Inexscusable, regardless of any of these other peoples lovely encounters with LE!!!

People sure dont read before they post.
for one, it is legal for minors to drink when accompanied by an adult legal guardian ( in Wisconsin)
I have the position that if they are old enough to die for this country, they can sure as hell have a beer with thier fish fry. Especially in the middle of the woods, in Northern WI. For crissakes, what do you do on a guys weekend out, have them play with Barbie Dolls? One is enlisted in the National guard!!!
As posted earlier, they were NOT drinking in my absensce, even as shown on the video tape, in fact, they hadent drank for a few hours before I made the expensive mistake of leaving the campsite to use the Shitter, and stopped at a campsite along the way back. Conversation was good, so I stayed awhile. Little did I know that a sting was under way, one of MANY carried out in the same manner as this for all of you who know so much about the WISCONSIN DNR
Long Story short, before a judge, in court, $1500 later, it was dismissed. No illegal activety took place, in fact the judge wondered why they initiated contact. I was hoping to discuss these type of contacts with competent people who might have had the same experience. Apparently, those people do not at this time occupy these forums.
Instead, I see a bunch of reactionary people who just fire from the hip, after reading the first 3 sentences of a long and complicated issue. I get the mental image of someone with thier pants down to thier knees submitting to a body cavity check, because they like the Warden, and look forward to such activety, as long as it makes them feel good!!
Ya think its ok to have to spend $1500 to defend yourself from something that should have never happened?

This activety mirrors at least 4 other similiar bust’s that the Rangers did. What they all have in common so far is that during a routine patrol, the Rangers spotted “YOUNG PEOPLE” In thier own words, in the incident report, they admitted to immedialty parking the squad and setting up survelience based on the age of the campers. A persons age is hardly probable cause to start spying on people with infra red cameras.
and by the way, I was never charged with anything. I am not disgruntled because I got caught for doing something wrong. You people are defending a class of LE that is clearly out of control. You do so just because you did not have (yet) a negative experience. I would think the reason for that is that you are submissive, and will consent ( to just about anything) I think another reason that I know of so many people who have been hasseled is because of class.
What I do not have in common with those support Jack Boot thug police tactics is that, for one, I dont have a $60,000 “fishing boat” I dont wear a uniform while on the water, with badges of corporate sponsors all over it. I do not use our Natural Resources to generate revenue, or for competative purposes.
I paddle a simple Kayak, not required to be registered, and am rarely fishing from it. Hence, no need to approach me, ask for ID, and go into a thourough background check to make sure that while paddling in Northern Wisconsin, I am not wanted for over due library books!!!
And If I was, thank god they are just doing thier job. Yep, another $1000 of taxpayer money was spent today to apprehend a kayaker who had overdue library books. Sign them heros up for more Homeland security funding!!! They need more rubber gloves f0r people like you!!!
And a reference to “underage drinking” and serving country. It is sad that the cemeteries are full of veterans who died for our freedom, in wars past and present, and yet so many of you are willing to give up that freedom. You all stand so united on the second amendment, yet you turn a blind eye to the rest of the Bill of Rights!!!

For the record…I am not the same as the original poster of this topic. And yes, I am new. I found this forum while searching for others who have had a negative experience with LE.

I do not apologize for being new, not giving my real identity, or posting on “your” forum, or standing up for the constitution for that matter.

Yes, this is a “trolling” expedition. I am looking , like the original poster, for people with the same experience. If they do not frequent this board, so be it.

Some of you people were pretty quick to come out of the gate swinging, even before I had time to elaborate just ONE example!!! AND…………

Here in Wisconsin, there is a waiting list for getting into the “thankless job that nobody wants” (conservatio/forestry LE)

James!! If you seek interaction ( and enjoy it) with CO’s, that is your deal. I dont seek that sort of attention. You make your living on the water, I dont. Again, read the 4th!!! I dont drive 4 hours, and portage a kayak a mile through brush to find a hidden Lake, to have a lovely conversation with an armed Warden, over something he has no jurisdiction ( unless you consent)
The amendment gurantees your right to privacy, even in public, unless ” the facts and circumstances within the arresting officers knowledge are sufficient to warrent a prudent person to believe that a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime”
When there are grounds for suspicion that a person has committed a crime, AND PUBLIC JUSTICE AND THE GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY require that the matter should be examined, there is said to be “probable cause”
Again, if you are not doing anything to be endangering “public justice, and the good of the community”, you should be left secure in your persons, houses, papers and effects, as guranteed by the constritution.
A CO doing his job out on the water, or in the woods is certainly entitled to approach you and check your credentials that permit any kind of consumptive activety that you might be doing that require a permit or liscense.
That contact does not give them an open door to check everything else NOT related to activety related to the resource. That, is changing, thanks to the influx of new money, and peoples attitudes who are willing to go along with it!!
I need to elaborate that my negative contact with LE hasent always been with CO’s.
Forest Rangers have the same expanded powers that CO’s do, and the same tendancy to abuse them.
Ever do any camping in Public Parks or Forests?
Would you feel comfortable if someone was watching you with night vision goggels as you sit around a campfire?
How about if you and your 20 y/o boys went camping, and you allowed the boy to drink a few beers around the fire. You go to another campsite to visit with other people and come back to find the boys in hand cuffs, with breathalyzers hanging out of thier mouths. You later learn in court that they were video taped, from the bushes. Even with that evidence, the boys were never observed drinking. Instead, the Rangers set up a sting ( in less than an hour) Raided the site, and contended a pile of beer cans( yours)and the smell of alchohol on them( from the beer that you, legally, as guardian, allowed them to drink earlier) constituted underage drinking. Of course, the boys tried to defend the allegation, and resisted ( another charge)
By that time, another Squad arrives with a Canine unit, and proceeds to rip not only the “offenders” camping gear apart, but an adults ( mine), who had been gone no more than an hour and a half.
It cost me the weekend, some gear, allot of stress, and $1,500 in legal fees to get them to dismiss an allegation that was not even illegal.
The only reason this happened is that the Rangers went out of thier way to observe law abiding citizens. They used exspensive techology to do so, and did it not because anyone was endangering public justice or the good of the community, they did it because they can. And they can, because of people like you, and those who are willing to consent to the dissolution of the 4th amendment.
And this elaboration is just one of many similiar encounters with LE within the DNR, and NONE of them involve fish and game conservation.

I find it amazing that only people who havent been messed with think everything is just great, and that people who HAVE been messed with are some kind of “anti-govenment” violaters who are just angry they got caught. A simple way to start a conversation such as this would be to google the 4th amendment, especially the phrase “probable cause”. Please consider this before you post!!!
As my screen name would imply, I am not of the “hook and bullet” crowd, but am an avid outdoorsman.
I spend allot of time in the outdoors, both local and abroad. My biggest challenge is to get away from people, and find places of peace and solitude. I consider fishing, of which I do allot of, a good exscuse to be out on a lake.
If I am not breaking a law, or endangering myself or others, or somehow denying others use and enjoyment of public and private property, there should be no reason for contact with LE. ( Law Enforcement). I will elaborate in further posts. Until then, dont mind getting your boat searched, after all, if you have nothing to hide, you should not mind these minor infringements on your privacy. And if they damage your property? Hey, its all good. After all, its all to keep us safe, and to protect the resource!
And besides, you MUST have done something wrong to get this unwanted attention. Maybe you didnt salute the Game Warden at the boat launch, maybe it was the bumper sticker on your truck. Or, maybe a certain LE entity has a budget that allows for officers to spend time harrassing people, rather than fullfilling the goals and mission statement of the Dept of public service of in which they work for. This will only get worse, because now, they get money from HomeLand Security, and actually have a branch closely affiliated with that agency. Believe in States rights to govern themselves? Get ready for the Federal Boater Picture ID. Another reason for LE to approach you, and thus begin a fishing expedition of thier own. Wisconsin is one of the FEW states “VOLUNTARILY” adopting this legislation.