Zipper merge

I honestly think a lot of people don’t even know how it works, and I can’t say I blame them for not knowing. In the past few years there seems to have been an increase in digital signage with warnings of increased enforcement and even attempts at funny messages. Those signs/funds might be better served placing them prior to a few zipper merges showing how they’re supposed to go. I’m not saying to the effect that they’ll distract the driver, but I would think a real quick video clip would educate a few people.

big_g wrote:

If you merge early, you are basically saying to everyone behind you, go ahead of me… I am in no hurry and want to make this line as long as possible for me. Don’t get pissed when cars pass you, going all the way to the actual merge area.

Put it on a bumper sticker!

If you merge late and are sitting there in a closed lane wondering why nobody is being MN nice after you had four miles to get in the proper lane, well…bye felicia.

It’s impossible to “merge late” in a zipper merge. Left, right, left, right… if this is beyond your comprehension, turn your license in today.

Dang!
I always went right, left, right, left. No wonder everyone flips me off.

big_g wrote:

It’s impossible to “merge late” in a zipper merge. Left, right, left, right… if this is beyond your comprehension, turn your license in today.

Pretty spot on. Pretty easy concept. Merging 4 miles early only creates more back up

big_g wrote:

It’s impossible to “merge late” in a zipper merge. Left, right, left, right… if this is beyond your comprehension, turn your license in today.

Merging early only works in light traffic where that one lane has the carrying capacity of both lanes of traffic, at speed, and with room to still have rational following distances.

.Zipper Merge

Tom’s “compliance” is fine as long as he decides

1) not to try to merge early by short stopping
2) not to straddle both lanes and end the zipper merge where all the vehicles are supposed to merge

Making the line long isnt the issue but waiting to where the lane is actually closed to merge is a problem. Traffic would move a lot better if people would merge sooner and not wait until the very end to merge over. You can find a way in before getting to the closure, but waiting to the end typically causes everyone to slam on their brakes.

big_g wrote:

.Zipper Merge

Oh, kinda like a zipper? WOW!!! Who woulda guessed.

big_g wrote:

.Zipper Merge

This should be a radio commercial.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Making the line long isnt the issue but waiting to where the lane is actually closed to merge is a problem. Traffic would move a lot better if people would merge sooner and not wait until the very end to merge over. You can find a way in before getting to the closure, but waiting to the end typically causes everyone to slam on their brakes.

Not if the open lane allows other to zipper as designed. It only takes a handful of people to move over early to completely stop the flowing lane, that’s when people get grouchy and do not let others in thinking they are just cutting way ahead.

Or a Saturday Night Live Skit.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Making the line long isnt the issue but waiting to where the lane is actually closed to merge is a problem. Traffic would move a lot better if people would merge sooner and not wait until the very end to merge over. You can find a way in before getting to the closure, but waiting to the end typically causes everyone to slam on their brakes.

you dont understand the zipper merge

MN DOT says to do exactly what you are saying people shouldn’t do

Anonymous wrote:

you dont understand the zipper merge. see above video that was linked

I understand it perfectly well. Waiting until the last minute is what causes the problems. I am not suggesting merge at the sight of the first lane closure notice, but I am suggesting not waiting until the last possible minute to do it. Merging at the beginning of the lane closure sign is dumb too and unnecessary. You can easily work yourself into the other lane within a few hundred yards of the closure to avoid unnecessary further slow downs. I do it all the time and no one has to hammer on the brakes because of me. I typically just find the last/first (depending how you look at it) semi and get in front of him, but that isnt always an option obviously. Its not hard to figure out that what the “talking heads” tell you to do doesnt always work when put into practice. Havent we learned that already by now?

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/

I don’t know how some of you even get pants on in the morning. It’s called a zipper merge for a reason.

Ripjiggen wrote:

I don’t know how some of you even get pants on in the morning. It’s called a zipper merge for a reason.

My pants dont have zippers.

The “talking heads” are engineers who’s jobs are to find out the best way to keep traffic moving.

They run computer simulations, controlled simulations, and study real-world traffic analytics.

There’s nothing you, or I, or anyone can do to prevent traffic back ups when a lane of traffic is forced over it’s carrying capacity. It’s going to back up somewhere…

It’s much more efficient to have it back up into two lanes instead of one.

When traffic is light merging early or late causes no ill effects unless some moron intentionally tries to block off a merging vehicle.

One day all vehicles will be self-guided and allow for half second following distances at 80 mph to account for lanes going over capacity.

Until then, humans will have their own opinions and continue to suffer the effects of lanes taking on more traffic than they can handle.

As of now, we can’t even drive in a damn circle together lol

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ripjiggen wrote:</div>
I don’t know how some of you even get pants on in the morning. It’s called a zipper merge for a reason.

My pants dont have zippers.

Jacket?
I guess that explains why you don’t understand a zipper merge.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Its not hard to figure out that what the “talking heads” tell you to do doesnt always work when put into practice. Havent we learned that already by now?

I love when people dismiss experts (in this case: engineers) based on their own perceived knowledge of the topic.

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

Why is it so hard for Minnesotans to understand and execute the zipper merge?

I personally never agreed with the concept. Wasn’t until I moved back to MN and had to retake the driver’s exam did i realize this was state law and not a suggestion.
Now I’ll begrudgingly comply.

I think the accordion effect the merge creates just creates two incredibly long accordion lines therefore reducing flow through the bottleneck. Whereas immediately merging into one line allows more flow through the neck… like how after the merge everyone speeds up. However the line is longer. And obviously this isn’t debate whether you should or should not zipper as it is law as pointed out.

Feels weird but I will stay and pass cars in left lane to comply with the zipper rule. Kinda feels like I’m budging but moreso makes me nervous to be flying past slow moving cars knowing some dummy may pull out in front and create accident.

I avoid cities and traffic as much as possible so I deal with this a few x per year at most. That cities stuff ain’t for me!

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

I love when people dismiss experts (in this case: engineers) based on their own perceived knowledge of the topic.

Hah engineers are experts now that is a new one. Ask anyone in the trades how they feel about them. You guys are totally twisting my words. I know how its “supposed” to work and I know WHAT it means, but I am just saying in my experience it does not work well but that is probably largely because people are idiots. People race down the lane that is closed ahead and then hammer into the other lane at higher rates of speed and slam on their brakes causing chaos. I saw this over and over again on our trip to and from Houston over the 4th. Yeah, there are jerks in the open lane that are peeved about those “late mergers” as they would probably call it but adding those two things together is what causes problems. I go about as late as possible and when I see an opening without causing anyone to jam on the brakes. Always worked for me and I think if others did this it would be better too, but there are always idiots out there.

What happened to not trusting the overblown MN government. In defiance of government overreach shun the evils of zipper merging and immediately moving into the right lane after overtaking another vehicle. The experts are government shills. Today we takedown the zipper, tomorrow the roundabout.

Many traffic engineers around the globe agree that zipper merging is the most effective way to lessen the overall slowing of traffic.

But, you do you Riverrat. I’ll wave and pass you a mile back in line with a smile on my face.

You’re the one breaking the law, and sitting in traffic longer than you need to lol

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Riverrat wrote:

What happened to not trusting the overblown MN government. In defiance of government overreach shun the evils of zipper merging and immediately moving into the right lane after overtaking another vehicle. The experts are government shills. Today we takedown the zipper, tomorrow the roundabout.

You won’t be taking out anything stuck in traffic

I can’t find it online but I read an article a couple years ago where a group against zipper merging did a study trying to prove their point. The leader of the group had to admit that there was no way they could bend the data to support their opinion. Studying actual traffic back ups and computer simulations all showed that zipper merging moved more vehicles in less time than everyone getting in the thru lane miles ahead of the closure.
I used to get in the thru lane early, but now I’m one of those jerks zipping by you.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gitchi Gummi wrote:</div>
I love when people dismiss experts (in this case: engineers) based on their own perceived knowledge of the topic.

Hah engineers are experts now that is a new one. Ask anyone in the trades how they feel about them. You guys are totally twisting my words. I know how its “supposed” to work and I know WHAT it means, but I am just saying in my experience it does not work well but that is probably largely because people are idiots. People race down the lane that is closed ahead and then hammer into the other lane at higher rates of speed and slam on their brakes causing chaos. I saw this over and over again on our trip to and from Houston over the 4th. Yeah, there are jerks in the open lane that are peeved about those “late mergers” as they would probably call it but adding those two things together is what causes problems. I go about as late as possible and when I see an opening without causing anyone to jam on the brakes. Always worked for me and I think if others did this it would be better too, but there are always idiots out there.

If traffic engineers aren’t the experts on traffic, who is? Genuinely curious.