Wyoming corner crossing case

The Mo hunters won the first go round in district court.
After being found not guilty last year in their criminal case they have now won the civil case Elk Mountain ranch brought against them.

For those that haven’t followed the story. Elk mountain ranch owned by a NC businessman filed a 7.5 million dollar lawsuit against the four hunters. He claimed they violated his airspace by crossing at the property corners. In doing so his damages were 7.5 million. Basically when he purchased the ranch his purchase price was inflated do to access issues to the checkerboard public/private property.

https://www.wyomingnewsnow.tv/2023/05/27/four-missouri-hunters-win-their-civil-trespass-case-wyoming-courts/?outputType=amp

I’ve been following this too. I thought that one of the hunters did in fact physically take one step on his land. Maybe not though.

Glad to see these decisions go the right way imo. However I do somewhat understand the landowners perspective as he likely bought the land at an inflated price due to an ability to access the previously land-locked public land.

Thats great to hear they did the right thing. This will open up millions of acres of public.

gim wrote:

I’ve been following this too. I thought that one of the hunters did in fact physically take one step on his land. Maybe not though.

I haven’t heard of any hunters stepping on his land. However the landowner subpoena the hunters OnX data and one of the hunters had a waypoint on his land.
His argument was that since they had a waypoint on his land they were on his land to create the waypoint.
You do not need to be at the location to save waypoint for that location. If I am not mistaken an OnX representative testified in the court case for the hunters.

If you want to know more the Meateater Podcast has had the hunters on a few times and have kept up with the developments.

I’ve followed this case also. Glad to hear that the civil case went in the hunters favor.
To me everything I have read the NC businessman is a very rich arrogant AH. If he over paid for land that’s on him. He should not be bailed out by a civil case lawsuit. Joe blow doesn’t get paid for his losses. Everybody gets burned on purchase sometime in their life.JMO

It’s ridiculous that any case, civil criminal, was brought against these hunters.

The ban on corner crossing is pure bullsh1t and everyone knows it. The only ones dragging their feet are western judges who are in the pockets of the big money ranch owners.

It has LONG ago been established that there is no ownership of airspace. Hundreds have tried to establish ownership of the air above their property and the courts have denied every single claim.

So if you can’t own airspace, by default it is possible to step from one corner to another without trespassing.

The landowners claim is by allowing corner crossing devalued his property. He bought it with the understanding the public land was inaccessible and paid $$$$$$$$ for his land with basically the idea he was getting extra acres that only he could access. The civil suit if he won would of recovered some his $$$$ Too bad for him.

The case came into prominence when a private landowner charged the hunters with criminal and civil trespass while crossing on the corners of public lands at Elk Mountain in Carbon County.

What possibly would the criminal aspect be?
I see the civil trespass but criminal, that’s a stretch.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

The case came into prominence when a private landowner charged the hunters with criminal and civil trespass while crossing on the corners of public lands at Elk Mountain in Carbon County.

What possibly would the criminal aspect be?
I see the civil trespass but criminal, that’s a stretch.

This story begins with the ranch Forman calling the sheriff on them and claiming they were trespassing. Originally the sheriff wasn’t going to charge them.
The landowner pressured the DA to have them charged.

When it comes to corner crossing. It is a gray area. Some sheriffs will issue tickets. I can see sheriffs siding with landowners since those landowners are their voters. Not some NR hunter.

When it comes to corner crossing. It is a gray area. Some sheriffs will issue tickets. I can see sheriffs siding with landowners since those landowners are their voters. Not some NR hunter.

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This landowner is not voting for the local Sheriff in Wyoming. He lives in North Carolina.

I’m glad this has taken place and the hunters fought it all the way through. This case will open the way for us all that wish to utilize previous unavailable access

MX1825 wrote:

When it comes to corner crossing. It is a gray area. Some sheriffs will issue tickets. I can see sheriffs siding with landowners since those landowners are their voters. Not some NR hunter.

This landowner is not voting for the local Sheriff in Wyoming. He lives in North Carolina.
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In this situation you are correct. However checkerboard land is all over the west. This is an issue in multiple states. Not just Carbon county Wyoming.
In Larimer county Colorado the sheriff will issue a ticket for crossing at a corner because the locals that live there want it prosecuted.

Randy Wieland wrote:

I’m glad this has taken place and the hunters fought it all the way through. This case will open the way for us all that wish to utilize previous unavailable access

This is a great first step but it’s not going to set a precedent for other parts of the state.
Since it’s a district court ruling in won’t have any weight outside that district.
The big question is will the land owner appeal the decision and which route is he going to go. State Supreme Court or circuit court.
I am hearing rumors that other land owners want this landowner to let it be. Because they are afraid of what’s to come.

It is weird they have public land like that when they could just eminent domain a few feet of the guy’s land and not have an issue.

Here is an update on the last piece of the court battle.
The landowner dropped the last claim.

Ranch owner in corner-crossing case drops Waypoint 6 trespass claim

MB I understand your response but I think more hunters will push the CC/trespass citation. I also think other judges will look at this situation and maybe proceed differently in the future. Precedent maybe, maybe not. Also if it was decided by a jury it could have been a whole different can of worms.

This case is now in the US Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver, CO and the outcome will set a precedent in whether thousands upon thousands of federal landlocked land is available to the public via the “corner crossing” where private land meets public.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/06/24/corner-crossing-land-access-wyoming-lawsuit/

This will be very interesting to see how this works out.

Theres no way they dont rule this in favor of the corner crossers. People will be foaming at the mouth to hunt those areas this year though.

Hopefully the court rules in favor of the hunters.
Never have felt violating air space is trespassing.
The majority of the judges on the 10th circuit have been appointed by Democrat presidents. That could bold well for the hunters. They tend to favor public access to public lands.
The 10th circuit cover Oklahoma, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah and Wyoming. Lots of public lands that are land locked by checkerboard in the states other than Kansas and Oklahoma.
It will have to get to SCOTUS to affect any other states besides those in the 10th circuit.

It is public land and it should be open and available to every taxpayer.
Most hunters can’t hire a helicopter to drop you in to landlocked public land.

Thanks for posting that link Gimruis, I do not hunt but I remember listening to an episode of Meateater about it. It was fascinating to me that this is an issue that needs to be sorted out.

In my mind, all public land should be accessible by reasonable modes of transportation. I suppose reasonable modes is up for debate but at the very minimum walking in should be allowed.

Corner crossing should be 100% allowed. I’m glad these guys took this to court.

Michael Best wrote:

It will have to get to SCOTUS to affect any other states besides those in the 10th circuit.

Sort of… other US courts can cite as precedent but are not bound by the ruling. It can get very messy.

Montana doesn’t allow it. You will be served a ticket if caught. Apparently Montana ranchers have more influence than WY ranchers. :whistling:

MX1825 wrote:

Montana doesn’t allow it. You will be served a ticket if caught. Apparently Montana ranchers have more influence than WY ranchers.

But when it comes to wading rivers montana has way better laws. Wyoming you can,t touch the bottom at all when on a river that goes through private property.

Get off my multi-million dollar mule deer lawn!!!!!

Not to sound crazy, but it’s insane to me that any one person/entity can “own” a piece of the earth… And yes, I am a landowner too. Thinking out loud is all.