WOW – When did firearm purchase and ownership laws become so confusing ???

Getting the Bug to get more into the shooting sports has been a real eye opener and learning experience. 1st all the In’s and outs on purchasing and carrying a handgun and Now all the laws involved in wanting to get into the AR game. I knew nothing about Short barreled rifles ( SBR ) Difference between a brace and a Stock. NFA tax stamp requirements if you want to purchase a SBR or a suppressor to put on a AR. Its way crazy how much grey areas there around purchase and ownership of firearms these days. I’m sure this most likely will only get worse over time. I could see how someone could end up on the wrong side of the law rather easily without any intent to do so. Say you purchase a AR listed as a pistol with a brace and a barrel shorter than 16″ – The way I understand it you are legal right up to the point you shoulder that brace like a stock and now without a 200.00 Tax stamp in your possession you have broken the law. I truly believe most of the various gun laws are put into place simply to try and scare someone away from owning and shooting guns. Oh well – its the current world we live in and all we can do is to try and follow the laws the best we can or do something to try and get the laws changed or blocked before they can happen. Its really sad that what not long ago was a fun activity for many people and families is now so difficult.

fishthumper wrote:

Its really sad that what not long ago was a fun activity for many people and families is now so difficult.

and the more laws that are created out of fear will make it much worse. Classic case of feel good laws that don’t address the actual problem. Great way to burst the bubble when your going into a new sport or hobby

It will only get worse until guns are an anomaly.

There is nothing new about regs on NFA, just BATFE decisions on new devices like the SIG brace and changes a few years ago about background checks/fingerprints/etc for people using a Trust to purchase NFA items like short barreled rifles/shotguns and silencers

What are the odds that you would be seen by a BATFE agent shouldering an AR pistol that has a SIG brace? I am not a fan of AR pistols but own a few AR rifles.

About the latest I have seen from the BATFE https://www.sigsauer.com/press-releases/atf-clarifies-ruling-pistol-stabilizing-braces/

But there was this incident https://www.range365.com/atf-prosecutes-ohio-man-for-ar-pistol-with-brace and the jury returned a not guilty verdict

It’s for your own protection!

ajw wrote:

It’s for your own protection!

Yep. Its seem like that’s the governments job these days. Protect us stupid sportsman. Or all us stupid people for that matter.

Any questions just ask. If somebody here can’t answer, you’ll at least be pointed in a direction that gets you the right answer.

NFA law interpretations by the ATF are what change from time to time based on technological advances and the fact that we finally have a manufacturing industry willing to push the envelope in an attempt to expand our freedom. Hence we now have “firearms” off the shelf that many would think fall under NFA rule when they actually don’t. (mossberg shockwave and the like).

“inadvertent” shouldering of a pistol brace isn’t going to get you arrested. At least not yet. Pistol braces are on the radar of democrats and are mentioned in name in the latest assault weapon ban introduced in the house of representatives.

There’s a few really good people in the ATF that are trying to clean up the system, make things easier and cut the regulations down, but with any bureaucracy, there’s political hacks in the way.

The biggest thing i am waiting for is the ATF to cut down the Stamp wait times. They are so brutal. For awhile they were going to try to make suppressors regulated like normal rifles just a background check and good to go. But of course nothing has happened with that.

The whole tax stamp thing blows mind. I hate that you need a separate one for every item that requires one. Yet just another way to Tax the crap out of people.

tornadochaser wrote:

“inadvertent” shouldering of a pistol brace isn’t going to get you arrested.

I know that you are correct that it most likely will not – But its the idea that it actually CAN that bothers me. The current law on braces does state that if brought to a shoulder it now becomes a Rifle rather than a pistol and thus falls under the laws of a short barreled rifle. There have been a few cases where people have been charged and found guilty. This could get your firearm rights taken away for life. That’s a bad risk to take. As bad as I hate the tax stamp issue, I think I would just follow the law in the 1st place and just Get it.

fishthumper wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tornadochaser wrote:</div>
“inadvertent” shouldering of a pistol brace isn’t going to get you arrested.

I know that you are correct that it most likely will not – But its the idea that it actually CAN that bothers me. The current law on braces does state that if brought to a shoulder it now becomes a Rifle rather than a pistol and thus falls under the laws of a short barreled rifle. There have been a few cases where people have been charged and found guilty. This could get your firearm rights taken away for life. That’s a bad risk to take. As bad as I hate the tax stamp issue, I think I would just follow the law in the 1st place and just Get it.

Could you post a link to cases where somebody shouldering a pistol brace was found guilty? I can’t get much for google results on the work computer due to filters.

I cant say if anyone has been found guilty or not. I was told by a rather larger gun dealer that there has been cases. It all has to do with how grey the laws are on things like this. The Laws around the whole pistol brace Vs Stock have be changed several times in the past few years.

THe “law” has not changed. The ATF’s interpretation of the law has flipflopped, but to my knowledge there have been no single charge cases where an individual was charged only with shouldering a brace and found guilty in federal court.

And if shouldering a pistol brace is too scary, Build an SBR. Efiled form 1s are being approved in less than 45 days.

FYI, it’s really dumb that MN law allows possession of short barreled rifles but not short barreled shotguns.

tornadochaser wrote:

FYI, it’s really dumb that MN law allows possession of short barreled rifles but not short barreled shotguns.

I’m not totally sure – But with the proper tax stamp I believe even short barreled shotguns are Legal. Never looked into it but thought I saw Info. about it while reading thru whatg all requires a Tax Stamp