Would You Rather

How would you handle this scenario with the deer numbers as they are? I’m bowhunting in a lottery zone, but this still gives me the chance to shoot a doe if I decide to. My camera shows two or three different family groups of deer passing by. I haven’t seen in person or on camera a buck older than 2.5 years old. Last year it was only 1.5 year old bucks I was able to see.

1. Don’t even think of shooting anything unless an old mature buck make a mistake and passes by my stand while I’m there. This will keep more deer in the woods to try to have better numbers for next year.

2. Shoot the next doe I’m able to shoot. This would reduce future deer numbers, but would leave more food for the deer that survived the hunting season.

I can’t control the winter kill or wolf kill in either scenario. I would like some help to know how to best handle this year’s MN deer herd. I hunt in Pine County if that helps.

If you want venison I’d say take a deer if you have a good shot. Archery only has about a 20% success rate and it only accounts for about 10% of the statewide deer harvest so it’s hardly a sure thing.

Just like pheasants. Shoot a male so the does can reproduce. IF you really want to eat venison.

Dead does don’t reproduce. We’re still dealing with the CWD crap and a push for removing deer from the landscape by me. Greedy neighbors have gone nuts with slaughter does. Sucks for my kids to sit for days without a glimpse of a deer at all. The last couple years have gotten better. They are finally understanding that if you pass does, you’ll get to see more deer. Just my opinion. With low numbers I would rather take a small buck

After hunting for four days Im happy with our numbers in my area. Lots of does and lots of bucks. However, four days in to the season we are only seeing small bucks. A surprising amount of forks and sixes. My son keeps texting me that he has does around him and asked to shoot one. At this point I gave him a green light on any small buck. The last day of our hunt I may let him shoot a doe but only because it is hard to let a kid hunt for six days and not be allowed to shoot something. I feel they would loose interest. We also have a healthy doe population right now. Just remember. Every healthy doe could mean 2 more deer next year.
DT

The ideal situation would be to take a young buck (or an old one) if you get the chance. You get venison and you don’t impact reproduction which is critically needed right now.

I’m also hunting Pine County and I have for 30 years and I can tell you that the numbers are down SEVERELY even from last year. Compared to 10 years ago, the decline is tremendous. So extreme is this decline that I really believe that every doe counts right now in this area.

I’m not a big buck snob and I don’t begrudge anyone the taking of a deer when the heard will support it. But right now, in this particular area, I don’t believe the heard can support the loss of any does at all.

I honestly believe we could be on the path to having no deer hunting or severely curtailed deer hunting in some sections in MN even by next year. The deer harvest is going to be down so severely that after this season there will be calls for DRASTIC action.

Remember, population crashes are NOT unheard of in Minnesota and back in the 1970s deer season was actually closed statewide. It can happen and I think hunters need to think very carefully about what we can do to make sure there are deer to hunt next year.

The DNR waited far too long to step on the brakes and slow the harvest especially of does. What the DNR forgot was that there are factors BESIDES hunting that can eliminate huge numbers of deer even in a single year.

For a long time, winter has not been a factor and wolves have not been a significant factor for over half a century. Well guess what? Both are back with a vengeance.

Grouse

Great post Grouse. I think I’m 100% spot on in agreement with you.

kooty wrote:

Great post Grouse. I think I’m 100% spot on in agreement with you.

Me too!!!

Unfortunately, I think we’re in for hard times for a lot of deer hunters in MN. Especially in Zone 100.

I want to make it clear that I’m not of the mindset that the peak population level years should be considered “normal” and therefore I’m comparing everything against the peak. I’ve got a little longer of a view on this, having hunted the same 5 square miles for over 30 years now and having hunted 15 years in other places in northern and south west MN.

The reality is that we’ve been hunting a bubble for over 20 years. We’ve had unprecedented numbers of deer in about 2/3 of MN and we have also had exceptionally warm and mild winters for most of this time. Until the last 5 years, the numbers of big predators–namely coyotes and wolves–were also at relatively low numbers and wolves in particular were not even present in any significant numbers in MN until 10 years ago.

What has been forgotten by many, including our own DNR unfortunately, was that an unlucky combination of factors can DRASTICALLY reduce the herd in a single year. Throughout the bubble years, the DNR became fixated on the hunter harvest as the only number that had significant impact. And it was true! For 20+ years anyway.

We’re going to look back on 2013-14 as the point where the bubble burst. A high harvest level, combined with large numbers of antlerless deer harvested, combined with a harsh winter, and with the addition of thousands more wolves has burst the bubble. And in about 3 weeks, we’ll have the evidence because the harvest tally from this season will lay the truth bare for all to see.

It isn’t all doom/gloom. I’ve heard from relatives in SW MN that they are having a good year. The population of deer there crashed about 10 years ago and they have been living under tight regs and with few doe permits for years now. The population has finally rebounded there, but in talking to an uncle from the Marshall area, he said that it was a very slow process and even after 5 years after the population low point, he didn’t see any change. The rebuilding process was very slow in the first 5-7 years and only really became noticeable to him over the last 2-3 years.

I’ll be out there regardless because I love hunting and love the land and being outdoors, but in much of MN I think we’re going to see radical changes in deer hunting over the next 10 years. I’m afraid many hunters who cut their teeth during the bubble years are going to be profoundly unhappy and I’m afraid we’re going to see many stop hunting entirely

Grouse

I have only been hunting in MN for the past 7 / 8 years. Reality is a hard pill to swallow. I will not let this stop me from doing what I love.

The lottery zone I hunt is flooded with does. Tons of them. I am hunting with a bow this year; ignoring most bucks unless it is big, and will take the first BIG doe that lets me.

Sw mn. Avoca area.
Tons of public land and tons of does. You will struggle shooting a big rack buck though. Lots of small bucks harvested each year and in the zone I hunt, only 100 doe tags are given… Every year. Drive over and hunt some of the many public land. Hunter pressure will drop immensely after this weekend.

I believe your original question/dilema was with respect to archery hunting in an area that restricted FIREARMS hunters to lottery antlerless permits. Those are two different licenses.

I looked a little on the MN DNR website for deer hunter success during 2012. Basically, there are 4x the firearms hunters than archery hunters. Firearms hunters basically have twice the success as archery hunters. With 4x the hunters they harverst 8x as many deer over the course of the season. Keep in mind the archery season is 3.5 months long as opposed to a 9 or 15 day firearms season depending on zone. If you eliminate antlerless deer from an archery hunter the buck hunting success rate was around 8.5%. Non-archery hunters had a 20% buck success rate.

Granted, a large portion of Zone 1 is bucks only for all licensce types but I have a problem telling someone you better limit yourself to one “statistical” deer a decade because the deer numbers are down. The reason the permits are for firearms hunters is because they harvest significantly more deer. I had a pi$$ poor hunt this year but that doesn’t mean you can’t harvest a deer of your choice. If you like to eat venison and you have an opportunity your license allows it.

If you want a deer, shoot it. If you don’t want it then don’t shoot it. You are your own person, you are entitled to legally do as you please. Don’t feel like other people have to be alright with your legal activities.

mark-bruzek wrote:

If you want a deer, shoot it. If you don’t want it then don’t shoot it. You are your own person, you are entitled to legally do as you please. Don’t feel like other people have to be alright with your legal activities.

Words that have never been spoken better! Includes fishing.
Shawn