Wild 2015-16

  • JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17563
    #1593228

    I love Bruno as a player, but as a powerplay coach he has to go. Watching this powerplay operate is beyond a joke, the repeated meaningless back and forth from the point to the boards, are you f’ing kidding me? The vast majority of high school teams have more creativity…

    And worse yet the players can’t even make those 15′ passes on the tape, it’s a joke… PP unit #2 at least can make passes and actually get shots on goal, but they can only do so much with the 35-45 seconds they typically get…

    There needs to be some kind of big shakeup…

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1593285

    Looking at the schedule, this is not a good time to be slumping. Next 10 games look pretty tough, especially the later half to start February. This team very well could find itself battling for a wildcard spot.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22274
    #1593401

    So they fire Yeo, then what? Its not like there is a glut of premiere coaches sitting there waiting for a job. Who would they bring in? Most likely someone else just LIKE YEO who hasn’t done it yet, but is available.
    John Cooper isn’t a seasoned NHL guy and he led the Lightning to the Cup Finals last year.
    Overall there is nothing wrong with the system that Yeo employs, you guys talk like its something way out there an no one else does it. That’s not at all the case. Most teams have a similar style, but as it sits right now we are not executing our game plan and the guys are not finishing the chances they do have.
    Pominville should not be on the PP PERIOD. Dumba should be on the first unit. They seem to be infatuated with only 1 D man, but that doesn’t work when Pominville is the extra forward. Put cough cough, Suter and Dumba out there together.
    I agree the PP is the single biggest killer to them right now. At least when Dumba is in there people are fearing his shot a bit and he can move the puck around too. No one fears Pominville or Granlunds shots.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11545
    #1593500

    So they fire Yeo, then what? Its not like there is a glut of premiere coaches sitting there waiting for a job. Who would they bring in? Most likely someone else just LIKE YEO who hasn’t done it yet, but is available.
    John Cooper isn’t a seasoned NHL guy and he led the Lightning to the Cup Finals last year.

    Overall there is nothing wrong with the system that Yeo employs, you guys talk like its something way out there an no one else does it. That’s not at all the case. Most teams have a similar style, but as it sits right now we are not executing our game plan and the guys are not finishing the chances they do have.

    You have to look beyond just who’s sitting out there looking for a job. That almost never happens for any team looking for a coach. The candidate pool has to involve insider knowledge about who MIGHT be looking for a job and just like players, it’s looking at and evaluating who’s got potential.

    Look at Philadelphia picking up Hakstol. Obviously, of all the college coaches, they had identified him as both looking to move up and having the potential to fit their needs. Only time will tell weather they were right or wrong, but this is almost always how it works.

    As far as the power play, I have to disagree. You have to look beyond the basic setup because, yes, that’s very close to identical between teams with some slight variations. It’s the more subtle things the Wild are missing. BTW, these aren’t my opinions, this has come up on broadcasts and in the hockey media from guys with a lot more coaching and playing experience

    1. Wild have zero net-front presence. They are not putting big bodies out front to clog up the middle and block sight lines. Everybody down low has their back against the wall most of the time.

    You look at the teams that are successful with a heavy shot defenseman like Dumba blasting from the point and it’s almost always because they have a big body or a fast stick parked in the middle and either deflecting or just taking up space and blocking sight lines.

    2. Because of point #1, the blast from the point has limited effectiveness for us compared to other teams because we have nobody deflecting and nobody blocking sight lines.

    3. Since Yeo’s system is so ineffective in filling the middle, the opponent gets easy clears from rebounds because all of our guys are backed up against the wall or the blue line when the shot comes. If there’s any rebound at all, it’s scooped up by the D and swept to the side or shot down to our end. We get nothing in terms of garbage goals and crazy deflections because we simply never get to the puck.

    At any point in the next Wild power play hit pause a couple of times look where our guys are. Then do the same with the opponent. Just doing this randomly, I’ve seen a clear difference between how often the opponent has a guy or guys in the middle vs the wild are always just passing around out on the fringe with Parise and Vanek looking for the opportunity to dart in, but nobody’s in position to block sight lanes or deflect a given shot.

    It IS a system issue, it’s just not as obvious as a radically different setup. Same issue with the 3-3 OT. We’re still struggling with having gassed players stuck on the ice, where obviously other teams have a lot better system solution to changing behind the play. It’s still 3 on 3, but there are major differences in approach and Yeo is still struggling to figure out what to do.

    Sorry boys, but Yeo’s been given enough time. He should have been fired last year during the Olympic break, but now we’re WAY past the point where Yeozie should have figured it out.

    Bottom line is what I said before: We have WAY, WAY, WAY too many players who are worse now than they have ever been. Yeo is not bringing out and maturing the talent in any way.

    Yeo must go.

    Grouse

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22274
    #1593507

    As far as the power play, I have to disagree. You have to look beyond the basic setup because, yes, that’s very close to identical between teams with some slight variations. It’s the more subtle things the Wild are missing. BTW, these aren’t my opinions, this has come up on broadcasts and in the hockey media from guys with a lot more coaching and playing experience

    I wasn’t referring to the Wild’s PP being nearly the same as everyone else, but there general on ice (even strength) strategy using stretch passes to get behind the D, aggressive forecheck and using the off-side forward to put additional pressure in our D zone to help get the puck out. This style is widely utilized by many of the top teams in the NHL.
    Their PP? Well, it just plain sucks. They move the puck around with an umbrella and like you said, no net-front presence at all to cloud the goalies sight lines or look for a deflection.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1593544

    See you Saturday. I don’t think I’ll be staying up until il 10:30 to see the puck drop this week. I may record it to ncase something fun happens.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11545
    #1593574

    Well, here’s a little Monday nugget that will warm your heart.

    Stastny gets totally laid out. Not even a chance for the Blues to whine about it, it was a 100% legal hit. Sweet. Would love to see any Wild player put this hit on somebody special from the Avs.

    Grouse

    wallster
    Austin, MN
    Posts: 806
    #1593597

    Well, here’s a little Monday nugget that will warm your heart.

    Stastny gets totally laid out. Not even a chance for the Blues to whine about it, it was a 100% legal hit. Sweet. Would love to see any Wild player put this hit on somebody special from the Avs.

    Grouse

    Wild player hit someone hahaha. When was the last time you seen a wild player throw a big hit. Been a while. I would love to see it soon. That’s what this team is lacking right now, “Physical play”, along with some other things. Maybe suter will give a guy a hug that’s about all I’ve seen lately. Fourth line guys seam to be the only ones throwing a little body around.
    Wallster ><((((>

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11545
    #1593784

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TheFamousGrouse wrote:</div>
    Well, here’s a little Monday nugget that will warm your heart.

    Stastny gets totally laid out. Not even a chance for the Blues to whine about it, it was a 100% legal hit. Sweet. Would love to see any Wild player put this hit on somebody special from the Avs.

    Grouse

    Wild player hit someone hahaha. When was the last time you seen a wild player throw a big hit. Been a while. I would love to see it soon. T

    You must have missed Coyle laying out Jamie Benn during the Dallas game then? He freaking hammered him and Benn is not small or easy to hit.

    Big hitting isn’t our style, but I don’t think the Wild are as a bad as people make out. We get our licks in.

    With the size and speed of the average player today, it’s different than it was 10 years ago even. It’s not really as viable to “be” a big hitting, physical team because so many players are so fast, big, and strong.

    Last year guys were saying, “Why can’t the Wild just push guys off the puck coming into the zone?” Well, if it was that dang easy, they WOULD be doing it. They don’t call it professional hockey for nothing.

    Grouse

    belletaine
    Nevis, MN
    Posts: 5116
    #1593843

    Typical Wild season.
    Come out of the gates strong.
    Tailspin into a slump.
    Then have to damn near overdose on urgency to get a wildcard.

    I’m not a great hockey mind like most of you but I think they have the talent. Their coaching seems to have no plans or direction.

    I agree with Grouse, Yeo has had plenty of time.

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17563
    #1593859

    They definitely have the talent to compete…I see the main problem being their Coach has game plan A to start the season and sticks to it at all costs…Yeo seems either reluctant or ignorant to change and adapt..he’ll play “his guys” vs demoting them or swapping in players who are playing well at the moment…

    case in point, the #1 powerplay unit…. their numbers are terrible and anybody watching them can tell they are clueless on what to do with the puck once it’s on their stick…. yet he marches the same 5 or 6 guys out there every time doing the same umbrella hand grenade passing back & forth eventually leading to a blocked snapshot from Suter on the point…nothing ever changes with this team…Fletcher must have the owner and scouts in his ear about changing things up, but Yeo refuses to listen….

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1593867

    @scottnevis I am no great hockey mind either, but I play one on the internet.

    I think a huge problem is this so called great prospect class we had. Nino, Coyle, Zucker, Granlund and to a lesser extent, Haula and Fontaine have not developed into much. The organization has been banking on them. Parise, Vanek and Pominville were never going to be able to carry this team.

    Nino and Zucker had great years last year and started off well, but haven’t built on that.

    Granlund should be setting up Parise and others more, but I wouldn’t put that all on him. More on that later.

    Haula had a heck of a playoff a couple seasons ago. I will say he is getting back to his game. He’s responsible in his own zone and plays the PK well.

    Fontaine looked like he might be a diamond in the rough a few seasons ago too, but then again no one expects him to be a 20 goal scorer, so that’s fine.

    I too get frustrated that Yeo doesn’t do more changing it up. Poms needs to be taken off that first line. He’s holding them back. He should be on the 3rd line.

    I don’t have much to complain about with the defensemen, bet them vets or youngsters. They all seem to have developed quite well and even above expectations.

    Yeo has started to mix up the PP now. The only thing I can think of is we were winning despite the PP, so he was reluctant to switch it up, however that has caught up with him. I don’t care if you are winning or losing, the PP has to be working. That is the bread and butter of teams who score lots of points and players who score lots of goals. It’s no surprise the leaders in PP% sit a top the standings. The only anomaly is the Panthers, and to a lesser extent, the Wild.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11545
    #1593868

    They definitely have the talent to compete…I see the main problem being their Coach has game plan A to start the season and sticks to it at all costs…Yeo seems either reluctant or ignorant to change and adapt..he’ll play “his guys” vs demoting them or swapping in players who are playing well at the moment…

    It’s either this, or the other way: Switching things up too much in a desperate attempt to find that unicorn of “chemistry” rather than just sticking it out and making the players figure out how to make it work.

    I don’t know the answer to this question so that’s why I’m posing it as such: Do other teams change up line combos with anything near the frequency that Yeo does?

    I mean, I look at the ice and half the time to me it looks like there was some kind of wholesale line change cluster-#### because suddenly there’s 3 guys out there who have never been used in combination before. If the Koivu/Vanek odd couple line was working so damn well, why are we throwing it away and trying random combinations? Sweet Jesus, the way Yeo is constantly mixing things up trying to find “chemistry”, it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Dumba up there on the wing at some point. Hey, you gotta try…

    The whole thing is coming unglued at the worst possible time. Big west/east coast road trips coming up with tough teams and points we need NOT to lose. Deja vu all over again.

    Yeo must go.

    Grouse

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11545
    #1593870

    I think a huge problem is this so called great prospect class we had. Nino, Coyle, Zucker, Granlund and to a lesser extent, Haula and Fontaine have not developed into much. The organization has been banking on them. Parise, Vanek and Pominville were never going to be able to carry this team.

    Pug, to me this is the whole point and it’s exactly this problem that points to the #1 reason that Yeo must go.

    If you can’t take the talent that the names you just mentioned above HAVE and then further develop it into something that’s WAY more productive than we’re getting now, you have no business coaching in the NHL. When is Yeo going to put up the freaking goods?

    Nino, Coyle, Zucker, Grandlund, Poms, Fonataine, Haula. Anyone want to make a case that ANY of these guys is substantially improved from where they were 2 years ago? At some point, Yeo has to be accountable for the players playing better and so far I can’t think of ONE player who’s a substantially better player under Yeo than he was before he got here.

    Grouse

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1593881

    No, I don’t put player development on a coach. What exactly is he supposed to do? Start throwing them out there 20 minutes a game and hope they start producing? It’s on the players to earn something.

    Unless your last name is Keanan, its hard to say a coach stunts a players growth. These guys are getting ice time and doing nothing with it. I’ve seen some great players put up great numbers under bad coaches and on bad teams.

    He took a last place team full of prospects to the championship in 1 year in Houston. I imagine he developed and got the most of of players that season. Its not the NHL or full of veterans, but it does say something about him being able to get the most out of prospects.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22274
    #1593934

    To me it’s too late at the NHL level to expect a player to develop. They either always were a scorer or never will be. There are very few surprises where a guy scores in the nhl when he hadn’t in his younger days.
    We’re those players oversold on their skills or are they underperforming? It may be a little of both.
    There are enough draft picks to not have to rely on only 4 guys but what happened to them? Oh, that’s right we traded them away for players like Pominville who is absolutely terrible. Much of our youth was either traded away or the pick was sent elsewhere so no wonder the cupboard is bare in Iowa.
    This team is skilled enough to finish in the top 3 in the division, get past the 2nd round of playoffs but they will not win the cup without some key changes like a true #1 center or a ton of luck

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1593945

    When I say develop I mean get used to the NHL speed and translate the skills they had as a “prospect”. Guys usually peak in their mid to late 20s. After last year I fully expected both nino and Zucker to score 20 and Zucker to be pushing 30. Of course until Zucker plays on the PP that isn’t going to happen. But I digress.

    None of them have become consistent which is a huge problem and a sign a prospects game has matured.

    Nino and Coyle weren’t drafted by us. The picks we have traded wouldn’t be on a NHL roster now and I can’t think of a prospect we traded that’d I’d want back?

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22274
    #1593963

    Here are two specific deals that highlight why our prospect pool is so small with the wild.
    Pominville trade — Johan Larsson and Matt Hackett plus a first-round draft pick in 2013 and a second-round draft pick in 2014.

    Matt Moulson/Cody McCormick Torrey Mitchell and two second round picks in 2014 and 2016

    Mitchell, Larsson and Hackett haven’t set the NHL on fire but what about all those picks?
    3 second round picks lost and a 1st.

    It’s kind of fun to quibble about a team who has its best record in its history to this point and are comfortably in a playoff spot with games in hand over all the teams around us.
    There are flaws, players need to step up and play better, but I’m not hitting the panic button yet.
    Still want to dump Pominville. He drives me nuts.

    mojogunter
    Posts: 3289
    #1593971

    31.1% of 2nd round picks play 100 or more games in the NHL, so the vast majority of 2nd rounders never make it in a regular role let alone light it up. With the wilds track record of 1st rounders we probably would have ended up with another James Sheppard. Pomminville was productive until this year, and now he has been bad.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1593995

    We no longer have games in hand with the teams ahead of us in the division, because even if we went on a win steak and matched their game total as of today, we would still be behind them. We do have games in hand with teams below us, but that is moot if we don’t win.

    It’s easy to pick on Poms now that he is having an off year, but up until this year he has been worth the trade. If the 16th pick in 2013 was the one we gave them, none of those guys selected around that pick are in the NHL yet. Larsson wouldn’t be helping this team.

    Yeah, we are a little bare in the draft picks, I’ll give you that. I’m just not sure it is hurting us at this point. We used them to get players who are playing now.

    Based on history I am starting to panick. We shall see what goes down tonight. I don’t think the Wild plays good after longer breaks. The schedule gets pretty busy after the All-Star game and maybe that will help. Like last year, playing a ton of games and just going out there every other night.

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17563
    #1594003

    They’ll recoup some of those picks before or at the draft when the deal Keumper and a Defenseman if one is not moved earlier…

    They are not that far off from turning things around and they’ve been getting good goaltending all year, they just need a jolt of something to wake them out of their funk…Trade? Demotion? something…

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22274
    #1594009

    Demotion is my thought. Put Pominville in the press box. He isn’t helping himself or anyone on the ice. He is flat out terrible right now, has been all year. He single handedly cost them 2 OT games with his play. Once was a terrible line change the other was just not taking his man. Ridiculous.
    This isn’t a knee-jerk reaction to this season’s play either. Every year since we acquired him he has been absent come playoff time. Yeah, he scored 30 goals for us in the past. Yeah he has been a top point producer for us, but come playoff time when teams really tighten up he was a ghost every year he has been here.
    No, we are not far off and I am not jumping off the ship. Koivu has had a great season by far. I will admit I didn’t see that coming. Other guys just haven’t continued where they left off last year.
    Coyle had been playing some really great hockey most of the season, especially the last month, but has little to show for it. At least he is making a difference out there and has some impact.
    The way Montreal has collapsed there are rumors their coach is on the hotseat. Amazing what happens when you rely on your goalie to win games and he is out for half the season.

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17563
    #1594015

    I agree 100% that Pomminville is worthless out there, sadly the only option to get rid of Pomminville is to cut him in the offseason and eat a good chunk of his salary spread over the next 4 seasons…

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22274
    #1594035

    Sure glad the Wild were not able to pull off the Johansen deal. His 7 pts in 5 games wouldn’t have come in handy at all. -P

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17563
    #1594039

    They tried…you can’t fault the Jackets for taking Seth Jones, I’d take him over Brodin or Dumba…

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11545
    #1594048

    So at what point would you guys say that the coach IS the problem? If he isn’t responsible for player development, isn’t responsible for any facet of on-ice performance, isn’t responsible for team performance, etc, etc, etc, what exactly IS the head coach responsible for?

    Mike Yeo is the last part that can be changed. I’m not saying it’s a sure fix, BTW, nothing is ever a sure fix. We’ve tried all the other options. We can’t trade for any more top tier players. We can’t rely on a Dubnyk-style Hail Mary trade where we find some diamond in the rough that saves our season.

    Come on! How long can we put up with the under achieving talent, lack of creativity, and dragging @ss exhausted into the playoffs after surviving yet another mid season tailspin? Due to the relative strength of the west right now, Yeo can no longer count on being propped up by poor competition. We could just as easily end the season not just missing the playoffs, but missing them by a wide margin if things don’t pick up.

    At some point, Yeo has to own the fact that he’s part of the problem. Otherwise, I don’t see what the point is of a head coach.

    Grouse

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22274
    #1594058

    IDK, I am of the mindset that these overpaid primadonnas these days cant be coached. It comes more from guys within the room to get it out of people.
    The way people are talking we are in last place. Heck, we are in the top wildcard spot. yes, I would much rather be in the top 3, but its not easy in this division.
    Are there things that drive me up the wall that Yeo does? Absolutely. I just wonder how much of his hands are tied by Fletcher.
    We all heard the comments that Stoner had last year after leaving MN and how everything is catered to one player. How much of that is coach vs GM?
    I have to think its a combination of both.
    There are guys that have no business on the PP much less the #1 unit. Who is deciding that? If it isn’t the coach then that is really said. If it is the coach he needs his head examined.
    I just don’t believe in removing the coach for the sake of removing the coach in the middle of the season for the sake of who are they going to replace him with? We’ve talked about the inner circles about how someone MIGHT be available, but that is just heresy. If they are going to make a coaching change I would suspect one will happen at the end of this season if they do not get past the 2nd round. To me it doesn’t make any sense to do it now considering where they are at. If they plummet between now and March, well, then ask me.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1594069

    I put the wins and losses ultimately on the coach. He’s gotten us to the playoffs and the second round. I do think until the youngsters step up this is just a better than average team. Vanek, Poms, Parise and Koivu aren’t going to score 40 goals. That means (some of) these young guys have to start putting up 25+ goals like what was expected. Then we can start talking about a deep team that can do something. Until then, we need to reach the playoffs and hope the goalie and defense gets hot.

    By the way I have zero issues with our D and how some of the youngsters developed. I still think out D is top 5 in the league when you look at all 6 players.

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17563
    #1594086

    I’m not going out on a limb here, but this next month will determine if Yeo keeps his job or not… They can’t keep sputtering with the narrow 3-4 year window this team has to compete…

    The next coach will be a veteran that knows how to get the most out of players…no more home grown, unknown coaches….

    Let’s see how the team reacts tonight after having a few days to decompress everything…

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11545
    #1594094

    I’m not going out on a limb here, but this next month will determine if Yeo keeps his job or not… They can’t keep sputtering with the narrow 3-4 year window this team has to compete…

    The next coach will be a veteran that knows how to get the most out of players…no more home grown, unknown coaches….

    Let’s see how the team reacts tonight after having a few days to decompress everything…

    I think you’re exactly right. As a fan, this situation is especially frustrating to me because of the “Groundhog Day” effect. Haven’t we been here before?

    I hope, hope, hope we come out on fire tonight.

    Grouse

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