Why lead core?

  • dirk-w.
    Minnesota
    Posts: 485
    #1785255

    Question – Why are the open water trollers on Mille Lacs using lead core with baits that can easily get down to the needed depths with a small diameter braid or even mono? Especially with boards. What am I missing? I only have used lead with small baits I need deep.

    Smackem33
    Posts: 149
    #1785256

    I use tail dancers, hornets, shad raps. All can’t get down 25-30ft without lead. What baits are you talking about??

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1785260

    I use tail dancers on boards out there and do very well. It pays to have 4 guys in you boat so you can have a spread.

    I also use downriggers and snap weights and do well also.

    Leadcore is definitely not the only way to do it. It’s just cheap, simple and repeatable.

    I suspect the people that don’t do well long lining don’t tune their baits properly. Will was gracious enough to show me how to do it the right way.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1785263

    I use tail dancers, hornets, shad raps. All can’t get down 25-30ft without lead. What baits are you talking about??

    Tail dancers will get to 30’ with the right line.

    dirk-w.
    Minnesota
    Posts: 485
    #1785265

    I read some past reports and watched some videos. Maybe I’m wrong but I thought some guys were using 3-3.5 colors of lead on some deep divers like deep taildancers, deep thunder sticks, #9 raps, ect. I know you can do some things with lead and speed, pausing, etc. but otherwise I would think it to be a pain if you can get the bigger baits down without it.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1785268

    Why are the open water trollers on Mille Lacs using lead core with baits that can easily get down to the needed depths with a small diameter braid or even mono?

    I kind of missed the main part of your question.

    I would never use a tail dancer or Wally diver with leadcore. If I needed a few feet of extra depth I’d use a snap weight.

    I will say I will never use unnecessarily thin line either. 20# braid at a minimum and 12# mono leader at a minimum. I’d prefer 30# braid and 15# mono. If you’re using something like 8# or 10# braid, everything has to be perfect or you’ll lose gear, and fish for that matter. Completely unnecessary.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1785269

    CBMN made a good point to me one time about using deep divers on lead. You can see when you drag bottom much more clearly with a deep diver. We’re talking deep HJ though. Not tail dancers. Deep HJ I think dive less than 20’ if I remember correctly.

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8243
    #1785271

    I use tail dancers, hornets, shad raps. All can’t get down 25-30ft without lead. What baits are you talking about??

    Where are you purchasing actual shad raps that dive 30’? Even the larger #9’s I have used are getting maybe 15-18’ tops on braid.

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8243
    #1785272

    To answer the original poster’s question, for me it’s all about preference and location. If you can’t keep baits in the strike zone while trolling, you’re wasting time. Fishing the river I’ve caught far more fish within a foot of the bottom than I have 2-3’ off while running cranks. I also like that if you come up on a hump or too far onto a break, a quick bump of the throttle pulls the baits right up. Making figure S’s to try and correlate the fish’s preferred speed is easier with lead. Leadcore traces the pattern of the boat, where braid had a tendency to cut the corner much more abruptly. If I trolled more expansive flats on lakes versus the river, I’d probably run less leadcore and more boards. There’s definitely a time and place for both.

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1785273

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Smackem33 wrote:</div>
    I use tail dancers, hornets, shad raps. All can’t get down 25-30ft without lead. What baits are you talking about??

    Where are you purchasing actual shad raps that dive 30’? Even the larger #9’s I have used are getting maybe 15-18’ tops on braid.

    I think he said can’t get down without lead.

    Tail dancers will get to 30’ with the right line.

    What is the right line then…leadcore? razz

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8243
    #1785277

    Sorry for the poor reading comprehension. Late night, long day of work, 2 consecutive days without fishing

    CBMN
    North Metro
    Posts: 968
    #1785280

    I will have to say that lead is by no means my favorite way to catch walleyes but sometimes it just works really well. I actually think the things I prefer the most about lead are repeatability and the shorter line length gets down faster than pulling TD’s on braid. I have also used boards on lead and it is purely to spread lines out when you have 3 or 4 in the boat. I will also say that I have invested a fair amount of time and money into my lead gear to dial in the accuracy and repeatability.

    I agree with big gill and pull TD’s on 20 or 30 lb braid and not lead. Deep HJ’s on the other hand get put on lead in my boat.

    Karry Kyllo
    Posts: 1271
    #1785298

    I suspect the people that don’t do well long lining don’t tune their baits properly. Will was gracious enough to show me how to do it the right way.

    No matter which method you use to troll crankbaits, they have to be tuned properly.

    I’ve done my fair share of long lining crankbaits in my lifetime but I prefer leadcore(or snapweights).
    I troll Tail Dancers using leadcore all the time and do great on them. Yes, the larger deep divers can get 20 to 30 feet deep, but I rarely want to fish the large profile baits that are needed to get that deep. Trolling #7 Tail Dancers on leadcore in 30 feet of water can be a deadly combination as can #5 shad raps, #5 Flicker Shads, #5 Wally Divers or any #5, #6, #7, #8, #9 crankbait or any stickbait. You can’t do that long lining.

    The ability to get small profile crankbaits deep and the ability to raise a crankbait with a burst of speed are a couple of reasons to troll with leadcore vs long lining. Another advantage of leadcore is that there is no need to purchase deep diving crankbaits(unless you want the larger profiles).

    Kyhl
    Savage
    Posts: 749
    #1785328

    It’s not necessarily about getting deep runners down deep. Sometimes lead core helps to get regular stick baits, like a husky jerk, down deeper than it usually runs.

    Will Roseberg
    Moderator
    Hanover, MN
    Posts: 2121
    #1785356

    Question – Why are the open water trollers on Mille Lacs using lead core with baits that can easily get down to the needed depths with a small diameter braid or even mono? Especially with boards. What am I missing? I only have used lead with small baits I need deep.

    I quite honestly don’t have an exact reason why it happens, but there are days where the same bait at the same depth on lead will greatly outfish one that is long lined or vice versa. Some days it doesn’t matter and some days it makes a world of difference. I will almost always start by running half of my baits on lead and half long lined then let the fish tell if one method is outperforming another. Some of the slight differences with leadcore are that baits surge less with in waves, makes it easier the ability to raise or lower the bait a specific amount (if you’re not catching fish you should always be moving them around in the water column), and the lead follows contours better.

    Will

    Francis K
    Champlin, MN
    Posts: 828
    #1785362

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>dirk-w. wrote:</div>
    Question – Why are the open water trollers on Mille Lacs using lead core with baits that can easily get down to the needed depths with a small diameter braid or even mono? Especially with boards. What am I missing? I only have used lead with small baits I need deep.

    I quite honestly don’t have an exact reason why it happens, but there are days where the same bait at the same depth on lead will greatly outfish one that is long lined or vice versa. Some days it doesn’t matter and some days it makes a world of difference. I will almost always start by running half of my baits on lead and half long lined then let the fish tell if one method is outperforming another. Some of the slight differences with leadcore are that baits surge less with in waves, makes it easier the ability to raise or lower the bait a specific amount (if you’re not catching fish you should always be moving them around in the water column), and the lead follows contours better.

    Will

    Yes, what Will said!!!

    I have no problem and good success running big DTD-11’s on lead. I run a 50′ lead of 10 lbs. XT. It’s just what works for me.

    FishBlood&RiverMud
    Prescott
    Posts: 6687
    #1785369

    I quite honestly don’t have an exact reason why it happens, but there are days where the same bait at the same depth on lead will greatly outfish one that is long lined or vice versa.

    Can’t offer insight as to why either, but I know Monday I couldn’t catch a fish until I put the 3-way trolling rods away and ran leadcore. Same baits starting hooking up.

    I actually prefer large lipped baits on lead and subtle lipped baits on 3-ways. Rare I long line anymore. Why? It is so hard to know if a subtle lipped bait is running free of weeds on lead, but big lipped baits transfer their action to the rod better. I can reel up a 3-way and deploy fast, so when fowling is regular, or catch rates are high I’d rather be using a 3-way to maximize lures in the water.

    I don’t own hardly any cranks than exceed 20′ on a dive chart.

    Fife
    Ramsey, MN
    Posts: 4048
    #1788302

    Question – Why are the open water trollers on Mille Lacs using lead core with baits that can easily get down to the needed depths with a small diameter braid or even mono? Especially with boards. What am I missing? I only have used lead with small baits I need deep.

    Like others have stated, sometimes lead just works better. A deep taildancer will go down to 31’ on braid, but numerous times I have been fishing 36’ in the basin and couldn’t get bit until I got down to 34’. Thundersticks, scatter rap taildancers, and smaller baits won’t get down to 30’ so leadcore is preferred. On my last trip braid behind a board or straight behind the boat outfished leadcore.

    Dean Marshall
    Chippewa Falls WI /Ramsey MN
    Posts: 5854
    #1788306

    For years, we have seen the same on the river with leadcore. Absolutely zero reason to use it other than it kicks straight lining hind end.

    mojogunter
    Posts: 3303
    #1789071

    People pull lead on the river? Crazy

    For years, we have seen the same on the river with leadcore. Absolutely zero reason to use it other than it kicks straight lining hind end.

    Outdraft
    Western Wi.
    Posts: 1149
    #1789074

    Try trolling a floating rapala or similar bait without lead core and let me know how deep you can get it

    Dean Marshall
    Chippewa Falls WI /Ramsey MN
    Posts: 5854
    #1789133

    People pull lead on the river? Crazy

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dean Marshall wrote:</div>
    For years, we have seen the same on the river with leadcore. Absolutely zero reason to use it other than it kicks straight lining hind end.

    So I hear ! :]

    philtickelson
    Inactive
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 1678
    #1789141

    Who needs leadcore when split shots exist? I buy one of those Water Gremlin multi-packs and just load up my line with 8-10 of the largest sinker, about 1 foot above my lure.

    I’m able to reach extreme depths by doubling or tripling the amount of split shots I use.

    I’ve emailed water gremlin asking them to provide dive curves for popular crankbaits based on size and count of sinkers on the line, also at 1′ increments above the bait. They must still be working on it as I haven’t seen anything come out.

    The ONLY downside is that they slip on braid and they crimp up mono pretty bad. That’s okay though, once the line looks too weak I normally just cut of the crank and throw the sinkers into the lake(they sink, so it’s totally cool).

    By my estimation, I’ve spent about $350 on sinkers the past couple years, so I’m well ahead when compared to buying multiple leadcore setups or downriggers.

    Karry Kyllo
    Posts: 1271
    #1789143

    Who needs leadcore when split shots exist? I buy one of those Water Gremlin multi-packs and just load up my line with 8-10 of the largest sinker, about 1 foot above my lure.

    I’m able to reach extreme depths by doubling or tripling the amount of split shots I use.

    I’ve emailed water gremlin asking them to provide dive curves for popular crankbaits based on size and count of sinkers on the line, also at 1′ increments above the bait. They must still be working on it as I haven’t seen anything come out.

    The ONLY downside is that they slip on braid and they crimp up mono pretty bad. That’s okay though, once the line looks too weak I normally just cut of the crank and throw the sinkers into the lake(they sink, so it’s totally cool).

    By my estimation, I’ve spent about $350 on sinkers the past couple years, so I’m well ahead when compared to buying multiple leadcore setups or downriggers.

    I’m guessing you’re joking?

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1789165

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>philtickelson wrote:</div>
    Who needs leadcore when split shots exist? I buy one of those Water Gremlin multi-packs and just load up my line with 8-10 of the largest sinker, about 1 foot above my lure.

    I’m guessing you’re joking?

    Well yea…he’s joking, duh doah

    Split shots? Aren’t we all using rubber cores now?

    Attachments:
    1. rubbercore-sinkers.jpg

    pool2fool
    Inactive
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 1709
    #1789172

    Rubber cores don’t give you that great molar-grinding action though. . .

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