Which Pellet Gun?

  • Joe Scegura
    Alexandria MN
    Posts: 2758
    #1685051

    Is there a pellet gun out there that you guys would recommend that will hold a good group at 30+ yards?

    I picked up a Raptor Whisper made by GAMO. It was about $150.00 at Cabela’s. Its a single pump 1300fps. I like the gun except it doesn’t want to hold a group. I’m lucky to hit a pop can 4 out of 5 times at 20-25 yards, so this gun is obviously going back.

    I had an old pellet gun that would hold a quarter sized group at that range. Are there any new guns out there that will hold a decent group? Thanks Guys!

    tucrs
    NW Metro
    Posts: 999
    #1685059

    Mine ended up being better and better as time went on. At first it was all over the board. Not sure if that is just the truth with these and different pellets shot very differently.

    Joe Scegura
    Alexandria MN
    Posts: 2758
    #1685063

    Ahhh! I never thought of that. Do you have a guess as to how many rounds you started to notice an improvement? Also what brand pellet/style was best? Thanks!

    tucrs
    NW Metro
    Posts: 999
    #1685070

    Yes it was right around 4 tins. Mine is a Gamo too. So about 1000 rounds give or take a few.

    The manual did say it would settle down.

    The PBA ammo did the best initially now the plastic tipped ones work best. Groups are not superb, but I still feel it is me now.

    Tom Sawvell
    Inactive
    Posts: 9559
    #1685082

    I re-scoped my Beeman and then started to toy with different pellets and brands. Right now I have some pellets that have the red ballistic tips on them from Gamo. They’re called Red Fire and a .22 weighs in at 15.4 grains. Snappy little suckers out of the Beeman.

    Before you start thinking of scrapping your Raptor you may want to run a pile od different pellets thru it….sort of a break-in. My Beeman had me miffed until I had about 200 shots thru the .22 caliber barrel. I had a couple different standard pellets that did ok but then the wonderful scope that came with the rifle began lose its zero after 15-20 shots. I finally spent some money on a scope designed for the type of recoil found in air rifles and that really helped but I still thought the patterns should be tighter so I went on a hunt and tried maybe ten different brands and styles of pellets before finding these red fire critters. I have the rifle zeroed for about 22 yards and I can pop blackbirds and starlings out at 60 yards pretty darned handily. Crows really hate these new pellets. Squirrels have a hard time with them too.

    This red fire pellet is also available in .177 and I may have to swap barrels and give then a go too. I really like to stopping power of the .22 though.

    I got my pellets at Fleet Farm.

    SuperDave1959
    Harrisville, UT
    Posts: 2816
    #1685088

    I like the topic. I bought a Benjamin and it would shoot dead in the heart for a couple of shots and them have a flyer that would land 3″ outside. I bought some different pellets with same results. I had concluded that it was either the scope or the gun. Don’t have a lot of rounds through it yet though so maybe I just start flinging lead and see if it improves.

    jwellsy
    Posts: 1593
    #1685091

    There’s many posts online about how sensitive pellet guns are to the way they are held. They claim that the best way to shoot it is to hold it extremely loosely with the only pressure being straight back on the trigger and letting the recoil have a natural travel path free from any grip pressure from either hand.

    nhamm
    Inactive
    Robbinsdale
    Posts: 7348
    #1685112

    Got a daisy of some sort. Probably on the lower end of guns you guys use, but my daughter whacks pop cans at 30 regularly, me not so much. The red tip pellets are awesome. Think its a plastic tip at that aint it? Ours is .177. Pretty crappy shooting with the cheap brands. Even the good tins will have good pellets and bad ones, have to pick through for those longer shots.

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8389
    #1685119

    Shoot heavier, softer pellets. My furthest striped gopher kill is at 44 yards. The harder, faster pellets are all over the place. I can hit a pop can at 45 yards with no wind on 8/10 shots with ease. My Gamo was $120 (can’t remember the model off hand)

    badgerbacker
    Posts: 75
    #1685129

    Could be a few things… most of which happened to me with new air rifles.

    Break period, it is not so much break in as cleaning residual oil out of the barrel and action. Extra oil “diesels” off and causes velocity to skyrocket/vary wildly.

    Scope mounts, air rifles actually have a lot of nasty, multi-directional recoil that can really work scope rings loose. Especially lower end rings included on combos. Keep checking them for tightness or switch them out. I run two sets of rings or the style with twin scope bands (each of which as its own hex screw) Often times the scope eventually ends up losing zero and needs replacement, but yours is new.

    High velocity, supersonic pellets are a PITA to group, especially .177. After trying several non-lead pellets, I decided sub sonic is the way to go.

    Cheap pellets can be an issue, but the reasons above are more likely culprits.

    I also like the poly-tipped Redfire pellets. Accurate, good price and perform well on crows and squirrel even subsonic .177.

    catmando
    wis
    Posts: 1811
    #1685130

    Ditto on the red tipped pellets ,they group great.

    Ralph Wiggum
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts: 11764
    #1685162

    Shoot heavier, softer pellets.

    This.

    I have a Crosman Vantage NP. Great gun, and it’s way more accurate than I am. I get an occasional flyer, but I am willing to bet it’s my fault and not the gun.

    It doesn’t take much wind to throw off a 6 grain pellet. I have some “magnum” pellets that I like. They’re a little slower, but they do a number on the local pests.

    Jon Jordan
    Keymaster
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 6047
    #1685182

    Have and older version of the Gamo Whisper. (.177 – 1200 fps model) Took off the cheapo scope that came on it and just shoot fixed sites. Much more accurate. Also using the red tipped rounds.

    -J.

    Bassn Dan
    Posts: 979
    #1685185

    I have an RWS single stroke .177 that drives tacks – for about 10 shots and then it’s way off. Clean the barrel and it’s back on the money. Really annoying.

    Tom Sawvell
    Inactive
    Posts: 9559
    #1685191

    Personally I think that the high speed .177 will foul a barrel and needs to be cleaned in order to keep them accurate, especially is using lead pellets. The .22 caliber moves significantly slower even with the pba and ballistic pellets which generates less heat along the rifling so lead fouling is less an issue.

    For scope users, Loctite the screws on the rings. ALL of the screws. The recoil and vibration generated by the newer single stroke and pump rifles acts as an uncanny magic that loosens things up unless you are constantly checking them. I use Loctite blue. No more scope ring issues.

    Ralph Wiggum
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts: 11764
    #1685194

    Clean a pellet rifle barrel? I’ve never done it. )

    robby
    Quad Cities
    Posts: 2829
    #1685201

    Try shooting it not on a hard rest. Due to the rapid action of the piston that compresses the air in the cylinder, violent recoil is generated. Newtons Law stuff. If supported on a rest the gun will move a lot when fired.

    mnfishhunt
    Brooklyn Park, MN
    Posts: 525
    #1685232

    Ok who all on here watches American Airgunner?

    Bassn Dan
    Posts: 979
    #1685262

    Personally I think that the high speed .177 will foul a barrel and needs to be cleaned in order to keep them accurate, especially is using lead pellets. The .22 caliber moves significantly slower even with the pba and ballistic pellets which generates less heat along the rifling so lead fouling is less an issue.

    For scope users, Loctite the screws on the rings. ALL of the screws. The recoil and vibration generated by the newer single stroke and pump rifles acts as an uncanny magic that loosens things up unless you are constantly checking them. I use Loctite blue. No more scope ring issues.

    Thanks Tom – I had wondered if it was a rough barrel, but from what you’re saying it’s the nature of high speed .177’s. The gun is an RWS 48 so it’s pushing the pellets pretty fast. The first shot when it was new must have dieseled some oil that was in it and that pellet broke the sound barrier…

    I tried several different pellets and finally settled on frequent cleaning to keep it shooting straight. It’ll miss a tree rat at 20 ft. when the barrel’s fouled – same tree rat is history at 30 yds. with a clean barrel. Great gun, but high-maintenance.

    Joe Scegura
    Alexandria MN
    Posts: 2758
    #1685265

    Great responses! I didn’t know so many guys on IDO shoot pellet guns. I have a tremendous Grackle problem and I’m used to dropping them 50% of the time at 50 yards but currently I’m hoping to get that at 30yds.

    I will certainly try the red tipped pellets. I’m getting a few grouped really tight. Then I’ll throw one 4″ left and 4″ right, then right on for a few more shots. I’ve tried hard rests and soft, I haven’t noticed a whole lot of difference. Frustrating, but hopefully I figure it out.

    Attachments:
    1. grackle.jpg

    Joe Scegura
    Alexandria MN
    Posts: 2758
    #1685298

    I finally spent some money on a scope designed for the type of recoil found in air rifles and that really helped but I still thought the patterns should be tighter so I went on a hunt and tried maybe ten different brands and styles of pellets before finding these red fire critters. I have the rifle zeroed for about 22 yards and I can pop blackbirds and starlings out at 60 yards pretty darned handily. Crows really hate these new pellets. Squirrels have a hard time with them too.

    Tom, what scope would you recommend? I’m hoping to hit a quarter sized target 9 out of 10 times at 25 yards. I’m willing to buy anything to make that happen.

    I assume when you say, crows and squirrels really hate these new pellets. You mean it kills them well?

    Ralph Wiggum
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts: 11764
    #1685307

    50 yds seems a bit extreme for an off-the-shelf pellet gun.

    Tom Sawvell
    Inactive
    Posts: 9559
    #1685373

    Tom, what scope would you recommend? I’m hoping to hit a quarter sized target 9 out of 10 times at 25 yards. I’m willing to buy anything to make that happen.

    I assume when you say, crows and squirrels really hate these new pellets. You mean it kills them well?

    Joe, check this site out. The link is for scopes specific to air rifle use.

    https://www.midwayusa.com/air-rifle-scopes/br?cid=11394

    I went with the Winchester scope and have not regretted it a bit. 40 bucks very well spent for me. and the scope came with adequate rings. As I suggested, once you find the right location on your rifle for eye relief and etc and the scope has been tightened down in place, loosen each screw one at a time and Loctite it then crank it TIGHT. Do this to every screw on the rings at the receiver and at the rings on the scope tube. When you think all screws are tight, recheck them to be certain. Let the rifle set a day to cure the Loctite, then start your sighting in.

    The Winchester scope I bought has parallax adjustment starting at 15 feet but by leaving it set at 30=50 yards and then adjust the focus ring on the eye piece you’ll be dialed for most shooting needs. I set a target in a sun lighted area and shoot at it from inside the garage at about 18 yards to sight in. Don’t try sighting in by having the target and the gun in the same light. You’ll do much better shooting from a shaded area into a lighted area as the glare gets eliminated. Its one reason ranges have covers over the benches. I use my bench bags to shoot from and have no issues with gun jump.

    I suggest getting the rifle to shoot one brand of pellet fairly consistently but let the gun rest after say 5 shots. While there is no powder being burned those little holes in the barrel create a ton of heat from friction and the compressed air so let the gun rest for 5 minutes after 5 shots. Once you have a brand of pellet flying well, start changing targets and then do some shooting to see if one brand or another does better or if one brand may have issues with your gun. Its all a matter of elimination beyond getting the gun sighted in because pellets are not created equal. Buckybadger speaketh the truth about the hardness of the pellet’s lead and general accuracy.

    If one has questions about whether the small calibers that most of these newer pellet guns come in need cleaning, a tight patch run thru the barrel might surprise you. Some pellets are made of very soft lead and when the barrel heats with repeated shooting can slough lead off and foul the heck out of the barrel. When accuracy heads south on a rifle that normally is accurate the first place to look is the screws for the scope attachment, then what’s in the barrel. Scheels and gun shops will have 177 caliber cleaning rods/accessories but I have found in lieu of brushing the death out of the small diameter bores I do better using a swab wet with a good lead/copper stripping solvent, then a couple strokes with a brush and then repeat, finally followed by dry patches until they come out clean. I also clean from the breech end to prevent any scouring of the muzzle with the rod. Pellets of harder lead will create fewer issues inside the barrel of small bore rifles.

    As for the crows and squirrels, and rabbits, hating the pellets, I do indeed mean that these Red Fire pellets kill very fast and clean. I usually try for the head on critters so they flop and die on the spot. The Red Fire pellets get this done wonderfully plus they are very accurate in my gun.

    Joe Scegura
    Alexandria MN
    Posts: 2758
    #1685580

    Thank you very much Tom!

    SuperDave1959
    Harrisville, UT
    Posts: 2816
    #1685631

    I think scopes are much more susceptible to distant changes than open sights. I may try to find a rear sight for my gun and try it without the scope. I’m old but can still see 20 to 30 yards away without magnification.

    jwellsy
    Posts: 1593
    #1685635

    MC Sports just put all firearms 20% off in their going out of business sale. They had one Ruger 1400 fps .177 that was already down 10% so at 30% off I snagged it. Can’t believe how heavy it is and what nice fiber optic sights it has.

    Ralph Wiggum
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts: 11764
    #1685688

    My main problem now is that my local squirrels are now wise to the sound of the window opening. They bolt so quickly now! doah

    Tom Sawvell
    Inactive
    Posts: 9559
    #1687148

    They had one Ruger 1400 fps .177 that was already down 10% so at 30% off I snagged it. Can’t believe how heavy it is and what nice fiber optic sights it has.

    The Ruger models are well built and tend to be heavy, but they hold up very well too. A friend has a Ruger and its a shooting machine scoped and using the pba ballistic tipped pellets.

    Something else to consider when having issues with accuracy is barrel length and the rate of twist in the rifling. There is a point where a barrel being too short or too long will impeded accuracy. The rate of twist might work with a certain design of pellet weighing XX grains, but might have pellets going all over if pellets weighing more or less than that are used. These problems are less present in .22 caliber poppers.

    Pellets vary not only in weight but in LENGTH. This is a real headache for .177 shooters. Some guns will handle longer pellets because of the rate of rifling….inches per full turn. Others may not do well with longer pellets. Then one has to consider pellet balance….some are more weight forward while others put the weight further back.

    Shoot a bunch of different brands. weights and styles to find one that does best in your gun, then buy a large supply in case they get “improved” and the ones you have that do work become unavailable.

    If you really want to dig into the whats what with pellets, check out this site that just sells pellets…

    http://www.airgundepot.com/airgunpellets.html

    DonG
    Posts: 122
    #1687149

    I have the RWS 48 Mag recoil-less in a 177 cal. with a 2 x 7 scope and it’s a tack driver. at 30 ft it will shoot almost the same hole and at 25 yds it will shoot inside a quarter with no wind. After testing different pellets both in profile and weight I finally matched the gun up with the ammo. Cleaning is important but not rocket science, lead remover and a light coat with an oil patch. Always disgard the first few fouling shots the next time out.It’s not your cheapest one out there but I really think you get what you pay for in the air rifle market.

    Joe Scegura
    Alexandria MN
    Posts: 2758
    #1687482

    Well the gun is getting better as I shoot it more. Just like you guys suggested it would. It still seems to throw a pellet here and there that I don’t believe to be the shooters fault. I haven’t tried the red tipped pellets yet, but I plan to soon. I went 6 for 10 on grackles at 30-40yds. Not bad but it really bugs me when I still miss at 25yds those should be guaranteed I’d think. I’ll keep experimenting.

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