Wear a mask

Fish To Escape wrote:

I am just sad that we are down to a battle between two old men who both have issues with being creepy:

If these are our 2 best choices, we aren’t asking the right questions.

I agree we aren’t going to get everyone on board but this subject is first hand proof exactly why. Our elected officials and government agencies are sending a horrible amount of mixed messages and implementing flat out confusing policies.

I never question or put up a stink about wearing a mask where they are required but this kind of information needs to get out there and be heard.

I just hope there are debates!

I’m with Dutch on this one.

basseyes wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Fish To Escape wrote:</div>
I am just sad that we are down to a battle between two old men who both have issues with being creepy:

If these are our 2 best choices, we aren’t asking the right questions.

I think most problems can be traced back to congress. To many old codgers get elected to lifetime positions. I never agreed with Ventura on hardly anything, although he may have been right with term limits. Give them 2 cycles and throw them out for fresh blood & idea’s.

b-curtis wrote:

But then I read this again and go hmmm, but even this points out improper fitting makes it pretty ineffective.
Aerosol Filtration

Right on. I never intended to make people stop wearing masks but we should just be all aware of the real science behind this. I really don’t want to see more widespread policies requiring their use. Not only could it be destructive but the pushback is going to be enormous, especially at a time like this.

I may have to start a separate thread to relay good factual information that comes up on CIDRAP. Hopefully politics can take a back seat. They have no place in a discussion like this.

Dutchboy wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>basseyes wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Fish To Escape wrote:</div>
I am just sad that we are down to a battle between two old men who both have issues with being creepy:

If these are our 2 best choices, we aren’t asking the right questions.

I think most problems can be traced back to congress. To many old codgers get elected to lifetime positions. I never agreed with Ventura on hardly anything, although he may have been right with term limits. Give them 2 cycles and throw them out for fresh blood & idea’s.

Agreed. 35-40 years in Congress is insane. Impossible to stay in touch with anything close to real life, no matter the side of the aisle.

You sure you weren’t on board with jesse’s legal prostitution Dutch?

Dutch is prejudice. Dutch don’t like guys who prance around with colored boa’s.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>b-curtis wrote:</div>
But then I read this again and go hmmm, but even this points out improper fitting makes it pretty ineffective.
Aerosol Filtration

Right on. I never intended to make people stop wearing masks but we should just be all aware of the real science behind this. I really don’t want to see more widespread policies requiring their use. Not only could it be destructive but the pushback is going to be enormous, especially at a time like this.

I may have to start a separate thread to relay good factual information that comes up on CIDRAP. Hopefully politics can take a back seat. They have no place in a discussion like this.

Masks definitely shouldn’t replace other mitigation efforts but I have read enough both ways to think they at least help lower the R0 somewhat. Even a small decrease can have huge effects so I am in favor of them in public places. I do the think osterholm is onto something when he says a false sense of security could be a problem.

Dutchboy wrote:

I think most problems can be traced back to congress. To many old codgers get elected to lifetime positions. I never agreed with Ventura on hardly anything, although he may have been right with term limits. Give them 2 cycles and throw them out for fresh blood & idea’s.

This thread is a hot turd, but this comment is pure gold and absolutely correct.

Dutchboy wrote:

I should add, it you enter a place that people wear masks you can politely ask if they require one. Some places encourage their employees to wear them but don’t require customers to. It’s respect for the employee that you should ask.

I’m fine with this. If you don’t like the policy, don’t shop there. But don’t bitch and moan about the policy when you try to shop somewhere that has the policy. Choosing to shop or NOT to shop somewhere is a choice too.

Some places are prohibiting the use of a mask while in their business. I’m fine with this policy too. I don’t agree with it, but their reasoning is that “if you don’t feel safe enough to come in without a mask, stay home.” You know what I do? I don’t shop there.

Fish To Escape wrote:

Masks definitely shouldn’t replace other mitigation efforts but I have read enough both ways to think they at least help lower the R0 somewhat. Even a small decrease can have huge effects so I am in favor of them in public places. I do the think osterholm is onto something when he says a false sense of security could be a problem.

Understandable. I just think that some of the potential downsides like false sense of security and policies completely offset any small benefit they may have.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Billy J wrote:</div>
The media is selling the idea of the need for a mask.. I hate to say it but we look dumb as a country wearing them. expect the folk the have a compromised heath condition, and then they should wear them all the time not just because of the over hpye Wauhan Virus. imho

By the media, do you mean the CDC, WHO, and other health agencies/organizations? Who gives a sh** what they look like. They’re effective at slowing transmission. They don’t eliminate it, but they no doubt help. It doesn’t matter if you have a compromised health condition. Wearing them does not HELP YOU, it helps everyone else. You just can’t figure that out, can you. If you have a health issue, you shouldn’t be out in public at all. Wearing a mask does nothing for the person wearing it. The only mask that helps the wearer is a certified N95 or other respirator which should only be worn by people in the medical field because of PPE shortages.

The CDC , WHO and all health Agencies? cant agree on any of this stuff with the virus. And i can figure out i dont by the story the way you do .. enjoy wearing your mask.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Fish To Escape wrote:</div>
Masks definitely shouldn’t replace other mitigation efforts but I have read enough both ways to think they at least help lower the R0 somewhat. Even a small decrease can have huge effects so I am in favor of them in public places. I do the think osterholm is onto something when he says a false sense of security could be a problem.

Understandable. I just think that some of the potential downsides like false sense of security and policies completely offset any small benefit they may have.

Totally fair. Unfortunately that comes back to confusing messaging from all sorts of places. Masks are great, masks are terrible etc. other countries have shown that having everybody on the same page is important for how this whole thing is handled

Fish To Escape wrote:

Totally fair. Unfortunately that comes back to confusing messaging from all sorts of places. Masks are great, masks are terrible etc. other countries have shown that having everybody on the same page is important for how this whole thing is handled

Excellent point. CIDRAP released a viewpoint on this very topic.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/cidrap-covid19-viewpoint-part2.pdf

Yup, that is where I first heard that point well delivered. It has become even more obvious since that came out

I read this and it really made me go hmmmm… had George been choked out on the streets of Chicago, by a rival gang member, after autopsy, his death would have been listed as caused by Covid 19.

big_g wrote:

I read this and it really made me go hmmmm… had George been choked out on the streets of Chicago, by a rival gang member, after autopsy, his death would have been listed as caused by Covid 19.

Um was Floyd in a gang? Have to be in a gang to have a rival gang. Or was this just a racist slip of the tongue…

Where did I say George was in a gang ? How do you go to that right away ?? That was a what if scenario… Your white guilt is showing.

big_g wrote:

Where did I say George was in a gang ? How do you go to that right away ?? Your white guilt is showing.

The only way George could have been killed by a rival gang member is if he was in a gang. Im not in a gang are all gang members my rivals?

OK, had a black man… ANY BLACK MAN… been choked out in the streets of Chicago, even by a Black Pastor, his death would have been listed as Covid 19.

Why do you always go to race ? Had it been a white guy named George, snuffed by a white rival gang member, his death would have been listed as Covid 19… get it ? You have to get over your guilt and just treat others as humans, regardless of skin color. Don’t let it be the first thing you see.

big_g wrote:

OK, had a black man… ANY BLACK MAN… been choked out in the streets of Chicago, even by a Black Pastor, his death would have been listed as Covid 19.

Do you really believe this, or are you just kidding around? That all deaths, regardless of actual cause, are being counted as part of the Covid death tally.

I believe it… Doctor Brix said it. Think about it… a man can’t breathe, he tests positive for a virus that causes loss of breath. Not a stretch at all.

Dr birx also said she thinks some states are under-reporting. She was referring to a lack of uniformity in his records are being reported

Bass Thumb wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
OK, had a black man… ANY BLACK MAN… been choked out in the streets of Chicago, even by a Black Pastor, his death would have been listed as Covid 19.

Do you really believe this, or are you just kidding around? That all deaths, regardless of actual cause, are being counted as part of the Covid death tally.

His autopsy found he had covid19.

big_g wrote:

I believe it… Doctor Brix said it. Think about it… a man can’t breathe, he tests positive for a virus that causes loss of breath. Not a stretch at all.

I dont know if it would matter or not but what I read is that he tested positive in early April and was asymptomatic. At some point, if your theory is true, they would need to start discerning how long ago someone had covid and can still be counted toward the death toll.

belletaine wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bass Thumb wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
OK, had a black man… ANY BLACK MAN… been choked out in the streets of Chicago, even by a Black Pastor, his death would have been listed as Covid 19.

Do you really believe this, or are you just kidding around? That all deaths, regardless of actual cause, are being counted as part of the Covid death tally.

His autopsy found he had covid19.

He tested positive for covid 19 on April 3rd (ish). He was recovered but still testing positive which doctors have discovered can happen for a very long time due to shedding of dead virus particles

Fish To Escape wrote:

Dr birx also said she thinks some states are under-reporting. She was referring to a lack of uniformity in his records are being reported

Interesting… what I read was that Dr. Birx said they are reporting “with Covid deaths” as “from Covid deaths”… thereby inflating them…and that it was Dr. Fauci who said they are probably under reporting ???

It is a very complicated issue. It all comes down to inconsistent methods of reporting between states. Early on it was partially due to a lack of testing availability also. That was when you were seeing “presumptive” covid deaths. A Death certificate has different sections for what caused the death and then underlying conditions that contributed to make the death more likely. Obviously most of the people dying from covid have some underlying condition. Someone that has had congestive heart failure for a long time who then gets covid and dies would be counted as a covid death with congestive heart failure as an underlying cause or vice versa but would count as a covid death no matter which disease was put in what section.

Here is an article that came out in April and looks like it was recently updated. It shows 2020 vs historical deaths in different countries. It doesn’t seem to be specifically saying these are only additional Covid deaths. It could have been a really bad year for the flu, or a lot of old people decided to kick the bucket to skew the historical numbers.

Missing Deaths

Seems the pressure got to the WHO and now recommending to wear a mask is areas where the risk of transmission is high. Says recent studies but nothing more about why. Good thing we are not part of that anymore so don’t need to listen to them.

wear a mask