What's the problem?

Before this season, I got a rifled slug barrel for my 870. I thought my days of inaccurately throwing slugs down range were over. I was wrong.

I got some sabot slugs to test out the new barrel and at 50 yards, I was ripping up the 8″ target. This past weekend when there was a deer in front of me, I couldn’t hit sand if I fell off a camel. I need to know what the problem is so I can correct it for next year.

The first one I missed was standing still, broadside, only 40 yards away. Somehow, I missed low. The second one I missed was standing still, but was a quartering shot at about 30 yards. Both were taken from a stand between 12-14′ high. On both shots, I was able to take my time and get my breathing under control before taking the shot.

Potential problems:
1. The slugs I sighted my barrel in with were different than the ones I was using for hunting. I sighted it in with Winchester Partition Gold sabots (385 gr). As I said, I was ripping up an 8″ target with those slugs. Fleet Farm was out of them when I went back there, so I got the Hornady SST slugs, which were 300 gr. Would the bullet weight make that much of a difference at that distance?

2. I was 12′-14′ up a tree in my stand. All of the shots I took when I sighted it in were from the ground. Would this make that much of a difference?

3. I’m just a horrible shot. I can plug ducks and geese out of the sky like it’s nobody’s business. At the range, I usually pretty close. If I have to make an adjustment, it’s usually less than an inch at 50-100 yards with iron sights.

So what’s my issue? Why can’t I kill a forest rat when it’s almost standing on top of me? Is it one of the three things I suspect, a combination of them, or none of the above? I need to know what to work on for next year.

Do you have a scope/ red dot mounted? If so Start with your optics and make sure they are mounted secure. I had a red dot scope internal mechanism come lose on me with very similar results as your explaining. Additionally, had a friend with a loose scope mount that gave him fits until he realized that the loose mounting rings were the issue as well.

And yes, different rounds can make a difference.

Id be willing to bet my tag its the bullets. Im a shotgun guy as well here in SE WI. We’ve been opened up to rifles now, but Ive been shooting shotguns since I was 12 and the stuff we hunt, more times than not, the deer is within bow range. ANyways, ive found that type of bullet makes a gigantic difference with shotguns.

I shoot a rifled barrel with sabots as well and I’ve tried a few brands. They all shoot VERY differently. Those hornadys especially are different. I tried them years ago and did not like them at all. If you look at the ballistic chart pn the back, theyre meant to be zeroed at 250yds. That doesn’t work for where I hunt and IMO, doesn’t make much sense for any shotgun really.

Id go find some of the bullets you had dialed in with and try em again. Id be pretty suprised if that doesn’t make the difference. Good luck!

Years ago I tried throwing slugs out of my 870 with the shotgun barrel. I don’t remember the particulars but I do remember quite a bit of variation between slugs. Different makers and weights all shot differently. The conclusion was to find what shot the best and buy a bunch of them.

Along the same lines, my Ruger M77 in 30-06 is scary accurate if it’s fed 180 gr loads, but the same gun shoots 150 gr all over the map.

I don’t have any experience with rifled slug barrel but it wouldn’t surprise me if it didn’t act the same way. The change in loads might have been enough.

One final thought…if you’re used to wing shooting, try aiming slightly to the right or the left of the target and swing through it. You have to practice enough to get a good feel for the trigger, but it works. My Dad’s theory was that you can hold up/down or right/left, but you can’t hold both ways. He taught me to aim to the left of the target and squeeze off the shot as you swung through.
It works for me.

SR

Thanks, guys. I only have iron sights on it. I have a red dot on my AR that I was thinking about mounting on there, but I figured it wouldn’t be worth the trouble. I’m usually good with whatever I’m shooting with just iron sights, so I figured I wouldn’t fix what wasn’t broken.

I’ll just stick with the Winchester sabots for next year. Does shooting from up in the tree make a difference at that range or am I just fishing for excuses?

That height should have little impact on the bullet drop at 40 yards.

I can almost guarantee it’s the bullet differences.

I shoot a browning gold 20 gauge with a scope and with Remington core-lokt ultras I could not hit a 4’x4′ target at 100 yards but with horaday SSTs I can hold a group not much bigger then my fist. Some barrels just do not go well with some ammo.

When I shot a 870 20 gauge with a rifled barrel and iron sights I had tried a lot of different sabots and the only slugs I was confident with were good ol Remington slugger rifled slugs. Rifled barrel and rifled slugs shouldn’t go together well but for what ever reason that’s what that barrel liked!

Also sighting in when its nice out and your wearing minimal clothing versus when hunting and wearing bulky clothing can change your accuracy due to your firearm having some cushion during the recoil allowing more gun movement while the round is moving down the barrel. I didn’t believe that one until I tried it with my browning gold.

Watched that at our gun clubs sight in. People shooting a variety of different slugs and the change at 50 yrds was jaw dropping. My bet is the change in ammo

Head to the range with the bullets you have left and see where they hit. I also had a 870 and there was certain ammo that it just didn’t like. When I found some it did I bought a lot of boxes. I also have a fair number sitting around it didn’t like.

X-whatever on the ammo. I have an old Mossberg model 500 that I bought a slug barrel and scope for 25 years ago. Shooting anything but Brenneke slugs (the ones with the felt wad attached to the base of the slug) through that gun was a disaster with horrible groups at 100 yds. Sabots were what all the magazine articles said that I needed, but Brenneke’s are what that fickle gun wanted.

per Gary Sanders….”Shooting anything but Brenneke slugs (the ones with the felt wad attached to the base of the slug) through that gun was a disaster with horrible groups at 100 yds.”

I had a rifled 870 barrel that had the same attitude. The partition golds were not bad out of that barrel but the Brennekes were flat out bad-a$$ed.

The Remington Copper solids were Volkswagon type of pattern at 50 yards with a scope yet. The Hornady sabot wasn’t much better. My Winchester rifled loves the golds.

I have to agree with Randy on this one. The best thing to do next year is get out in the early fall and try a couple different brands through the barrel.

Is this a Remington barrel or after-market? I ask because I have the same gun that I use in Iowa and I have a OEM Remington rifled barrel. I ran about a half dozen different brands through it the first year I put the rifled barrel on it. I found that I had the best grouping with Federal’s Vital-Shok Barnes Expanders. I know their not cheap but I think it will save you a little frustration next year by trying a few different ammo’s and seeing what your gun tells you it likes.

Now that gun season is over, go back to the range and shoot your gun again using the same ammo you zeroed it in with. If your gun is still zeroed with that ammo your question is answered.

It isn’t just slugs that vary between brands. My Savage 30-06 shoots spot on at 100 yards with Remington 180 grain loads and shoots low at 100 yards with Federal 180 grain loads. I’ve checked it twice with different boxes of both ammo a couple years apart and there is a consistent difference. If it is sighted in to shoot the federal rounds, the remington rounds shoot high. Doesn’t sound logical but it is what it is. I try to stick to the same ammo but if I have to change, I sight the rifle in again.

My 870 shoots the Winchester Partition Golds with excellent accuracy. The Hornady SST’s were the worst out of that gun. I honestly don’t think I could have kept shots on a 8 inch target at 40 yards with the SST’s. Not saying they are a bad design. I know people with other guns that love the SST’s, but my 870 barrel does not like them at all.

I do think the bulk of your problem is just brand selection…… as the others have stated. But regarding your 12′-14′ tree stand question, I think it’s possible for this to play into your issues.

Modern sabots are traveling a minimum speed of 1800 fps. That’s pretty quick for the pumpkin you’re slinging down the barrel. I’ve never shot my Ithaca out of a tree but I know in my high powered rifles, that if I zero them in at a short distance, the down-hill trajectory is vastly different than when I’m shooting flat. Just like a bow, I need to aim slightly lower than “typical” or I’ll hit higher than I desire.

Where a bullet at zero should travel both up and down before impact, aiming downward at a 45 degree angle will change that up/down distance more than you might realize. Once you’ve got your shotgun shooting good groups again, take it to your tree stand and plop a shot or two at a target and see what you find out. Not knowing what your terrain is or what options/obstacles you face, it may not be that big of a deal. Then again, it might. Just remember that the closer the deer is to your stand, the more the change of trajectory will matter.

People tend to shoot high when they’re up in the air above a target. That’s because you think you’re farther away than you actually are. Draw a line from you to the target, the target to the base of the tree, and the base of the tree up to your stand. That’s a right triangle. You are looking down the slope, the longest side of the triangle.

The bullet only cares about the distance between the bottom of the tree and the target.

Gravity starts pulling the bullet down as soon as it clears the muzzle. It keeps falling until it hits the target. It doesn’t matter if you’re pointing up, down, or level, the drop is the same over a given distance.

Now given the numbers in the original post, the target was 40 yards away (120 feet) and the stand was 12 feet high. So let’s assume the triangle was 120 x 12. A quick calculation shows that the long side…the distance you see…is 120.6 feet. In other words 15 feet up isn’t significant.

SR