Real good post Al. Sounds like you and your family are greatly contributing to the “community” factor and helping out others. Great to see.
It’s not even comparable to what you and others have said, but when I’ve left the house I’ve tried to group-text all kinds of people to see if they or especially elderly friends or family need anything from a store. Not gonna save the world but if one person could grab some things for others rather than them have to go out, who knows.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>philtickelson wrote:</div>
using money from tax breaks to buy-back stocks, which doesn’t do anything for the economy or the peopleYes it does. It allows companies to grow and hire more workers. More workers paying taxes is good for everyone. That is what has been happening since the Trump tax cuts have been in place.
Also, for average working Americans. You are paying less tax on your income. This puts more spending money in workers pockets.
Notice the word “Workers”. You need to have a job. Hand outs are not part of any working equation.
-J.
I respectfully disagree, as does the Harvard Business Review.
https://hbr.org/2020/01/why-stock-buybacks-are-dangerous-for-the-economy
Stock buybacks made as open-market repurchases make no contribution to the productive capabilities of the firm. Indeed, these distributions to shareholders, which generally come on top of dividends, disrupt the growth dynamic that links the productivity and pay of the labor force. The results are increased income inequity, employment instability, and anemic productivity.
Why have U.S. companies done these massive buybacks? With the majority of their compensation coming from stock options and stock awards, senior corporate executives have used open-market repurchases to manipulate their companies’ stock prices to their own benefit and that of others who are in the business of timing the buying and selling of publicly listed shares. Buybacks enrich these opportunistic share sellers — investment bankers and hedge-fund managers as well as senior corporate executives — at the expense of employees, as well as continuing shareholders.
I take opinions with a very small grain of salt, Personally I want to hear from a doctor or a scientist, someone WHO is a hell of a lot smarter than me. This projecting on this or that is just flapping gums. DK.
Yea, we can all google up what ever answer makes you happy. From the Tax Foundation: (Or any of the other 100’s pf pages that agree with your position)
Key Findings
•The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, by lowering the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, will cause two things to happen: a lower tax burden on old capital, leading to higher profits on existing investments; and a lower tax burden on new capital, incentivizing businesses to make new investments.
•Higher profits on existing investments provide a cash infusion to those businesses, which we expect will, at least in part, be returned to shareholders through stock buybacks.
•Some of the largest shareholders and beneficiaries of stock buybacks are institutional investors, such as pension funds for public-sector employees, and other types of retirement funds.
•As of 2017, the top 1,000 retirement funds in the United States had total assets of $10.3 trillion. Public funds, such as those benefiting teachers, police officers, and government workers, held 41 percent of these assets, or $4.25 trillion. Union funds, representing private-sector union employees, held 4 percent, or $0.41 trillion, and miscellaneous funds, such as those benefiting university and hospital workers, held 12 percent, or $1.21 trillion.
•Stock buybacks do not displace long-term investment. Rather, stock buybacks can supplement capital investments, as they can help reallocate capital from old, established firms to new and innovative firms.
•When thinking through how stock buybacks will affect the economy, it is important to remember that it is the final use of money that determines the economic impact, not the initial.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>philtickelson wrote:</div>
What increases buying power more. Giving a billionaire an extra billion dollars a month, or giving a million people a thousand dollars a month each? Bailing out corporations could work if that money is funneled down to the employees. But if it’s not, then it’s just going into the owners/shareholders/executives pockets. And they could give a *&(*& about their employees.See you just don’t get it. You can hand out a $500 check each and every month to people. They still will be broke because they don’t need to work.
Like JJ said, what difference does it make what I do with bailout money if i’m employing 1000 people. 1000 tax paying, wage earning jobs.
Jobs Phil, you gotta have jobs.
The difference? Well the difference is sustainable growth for the economy and the company and it’s employees.
If a company decides they want to use the $10 billion they just saved on tax cuts to line their executives/shareholders pockets instead of investing in things that will GREATLY increase the number of jobs they provide, then I’m going to continue to criticize it. Those are opportunities to create significantly more of those jobs you are talking about, but they aren’t doing that.
Honestly I think we are kind of agreeing, we just disagree with the impact those buybacks are having. They have been handed tax cuts, and they are choosing to pocket the money instead of investing it back into the company and employees to create more of your jobs.
It’s short sighted, transparently greedy, and helps a minute number of extremely rich individuals and NOT the economy or the average American.
A wise man once told me, “Don’t argue with a fool. Because people watching may not know which person is the fool”
Mark Twain stated it well – “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”
•The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, by lowering the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, will cause two things to happen: a lower tax burden on old capital, leading to higher profits on existing investments; and a lower tax burden on new capital, incentivizing businesses to make new investments.
Incentivizing them to make new investments is different than them making new investments. In large, they are NOT making new investments.
•Higher profits on existing investments provide a cash infusion to those businesses, which we expect will, at least in part, be returned to shareholders through stock buybacks.
Yes all those average joe shareholders holding stock in these companies. A cash infusion they are using to….buy back more stocks?
•Some of the largest shareholders and beneficiaries of stock buybacks are institutional investors, such as pension funds for public-sector employees, and other types of retirement funds.
This is short term/short sighted. It sure helps the stock market, until it doesn’t. How’s your 401k today? This is not a long-term, stable form of growth, it’s stock price manipulation. You may have a pension, but in case you hand’t noticed, those aren’t exactly common benefits anymore.
•Stock buybacks do not displace long-term investment. Rather, stock buybacks can supplement capital investments, as they can help reallocate capital from old, established firms to new and innovative firms.
They CAN, MIGHT, COULD, etc. Just like the tax breaks, there’s A LOT of ways a corporation could use an extra billion dollars. It just so happens they generally choose to use it in a way the benefits a very small amount of people.
•When thinking through how stock buybacks will affect the economy, it is important to remember that it is the final use of money that determines the economic impact, not the initial.
Haha right, the FINAL use of the money. What if the FINAL use of the money is more buybacks in the next round?
“Trust us, NEXT time, after we’ve accumulated even more wealth and made the income gap even bigger, THEN we will trickle that money down. Tenth time’s the charm!”
This all reads like, “here are a lot of ways buybacks COULD eventually be used positively.” Which is very different than them actually being used positively.
Now’s the time to find out though. Hopefully all these corporations and billionaires step up to the plate and do the right thing now while we are in crisis.
The challenge is that companies did not take bailout money in the last recession and invest in employees/jobs. They cleaned up their balance sheets, bought back shares and generally did jack sh!t for their employees.
Brad if they kept the doors open and people employed they did something. If you think that money was going to the employees you are delusional. If you want / need more find a different job or form a union.
No Phil we aren’t agreeing on anything.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Brad Dimond wrote:</div>
The challenge is that companies did not take bailout money in the last recession and invest in employees/jobs. They cleaned up their balance sheets, bought back shares and generally did jack sh!t for their employees.Brad if they kept the doors open and people employed they did something. If you think that money was going to the employees you are delusional. If you want / need more find a different job or form a union.
Can you clarify Dutch? You agree that tax breaks didn’t end up with more money in the employees pockets? Isn’t that exactly what he and I are saying? They did something? That’s your bar? LOL.
No Phil we aren’t agreeing on anything.
I can live with that. I think people/corporations/government should be help to more than “they did something” as you put it, but maybe that’s just me.
I mean me personally, I’ve been seeing old folks home after old folks home get built around here, not enough space for the boomers reaching that age. But I feel like one old folks home per state is probably enough. I mean, what if I want to buy up some of land for myself someday?
If anyone complains we can just say, “well one is more than zero, we did something”.
I think they call that, a pretty low bar.
After all, it’s the CEOs that make a company tick. Remove the CEO and these companies would FALL APART AT THE SEAMS.
I used to work at Target, they let Gregg Steinhafel go after the data breach. I think he got a $60M golden parachute. What happened to Target?
Oh yeah, they are doing alright, their stock price tripled since then, that $60M definitely couldn’t have gone to other investments, workplace improvements, salary increases.
lol. Somebody still believes in supply-side economics?
Dan, we are fortunate that we have jobs that allow us to work from home. I live in a fairly small city(technically a village). It’s not just us, there are a lot of good people here who are all doing that we can. One guy setup iPads at the senior center so the residents could use Skype or FaceTime to visit with family or talk to a doctor. I really think even the smallest gestures go a long way in building a community. A kind word is sometimes a rarity and can change someone’s whole day.
Another thing I hope sticks around is people actually talking to one another. I’ve gotten and made more phone calls in the last 2 weeks then I’ve probably gotten in the last year. I forget sometimes how great an actual conversation is. Too many times we “keep in touch” by texting or liking a Facebook post.
Oh, and one more thing I hope sticks around. People playing board games and cards. With the Xbox server crashing due to high volume. My wife, my daughter, and I have played Yahtzee, Life, Trouble, Sorry, Clue and Monopoly. It’s amazing how fast time goes when you get into a game.
Hopefully, what will change is that:
1. People will accept the fact that a pandemic CAN happen and WILL happen again.
It’s not a “creation of the media”, “hysteria” or anything else, it’s just a fact.
2. People will understand that measures, like stopping sports seasons, canceling events, stopping school, etc, can’t stop the spread completely. These measures are designed to SLOW the spread of the disease and keep numbers of infected people to a level that resources can manage.
3. More people will have a rational reaction to the next outbreak, rather than focusing on toilet paper or some other irrelevant distraction.
4. People will realize “being prepared” isn’t about hoarding toilet paper and dried beans. Being prepared is mental more than physical.
Grouse
Optimistic. Have a lot to correct before that happens. With the divide between cultures its a long haul.
Sorry, not buying what is for sale here….. Think most of the country will see through this bs in the next 10-15 days.
-J.
This has to be the most ignorant thing I’ve read on this forum.
10–15 days and back to normal??? Haha, sure thing bud.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jon Jordan wrote:</div>
Sorry, not buying what is for sale here….. Think most of the country will see through this bs in the next 10-15 days.-J.
This has to be the most ignorant thing I’ve read on this forum.
10–15 days and back to normal??? Haha, sure thing bud.
I did not say back to normal. I said see through the BS. Still believe there will be a be push back on these government closures soon.
-J.
I’ll keep this short.
I’m concerned about our dependence on China. The pharmaceutical business alone is staggering.
What I think and hope will change is the dependency on China for a lot of goods that will be reclassified as national security risks. medical supplies, drugs and med equip should be the tip of the iceberg. Which should lead to manufacturing returning to USA.
I also think we will see more tariffs on China with no mercy from Trump.
Maybe legislation to allow the Gov agencies to buy american.
Some great posts, some samo samo stuff but a couple of hours of free entertainment for me.
Be safe hope all come thru this
4. People will realize “being prepared” isn’t about hoarding toilet paper and dried beans. Being prepared is mental more than physical.
Grouse
X a bazillion gazillion!
Honest to pete people, calm the f down. You don’t need 800 rolls of toilet paper.
Maybe wishful thinking, but one thing I hope sticks with people…
We just had an open-air meeting with the 6 closest neighbors. We agreed that we need to join together and take on things as a little tribe almost. Some neighbors are needing child care because they still have to report to work but daycare and schools are shut down.
Another couple is elderly and we agreed that they should not go out at all due to health issues that would make it very bad if they were to contract the virus. So we’re going to do their shopping and Rx pickups today.
A divorced mom of 2 teenaged boys is hourly and laid off. She needs a job, food, and has run out internet GBs on her phone. She’s also really distraught almost to the point of being a basket case. We clubbed together and Mrs Grouse nd another lady are going to go over and work with her on her unemployment filing this afternoon, we gave her the password our wifi and I topped up her phone. Some other neighbors are going out to buy groceries for her.
Basically, I hope people forget these fantasies about when the spit hits the spam they are going to go it alone out in the woods. BS. What makes this work is your ability to form up a tribe and help each other.
Grouse
X2!
Talk to your neighbors. Help people who need help.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>bassh8er wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jon Jordan wrote:</div>
Sorry, not buying what is for sale here….. Think most of the country will see through this bs in the next 10-15 days.-J.
This has to be the most ignorant thing I’ve read on this forum.
10–15 days and back to normal??? Haha, sure thing bud.
I did not say back to normal. I said see through the BS. Still believe there will be a be push back on these government closures soon.
-J.
Only 4 more days until we’ve seen through this?
“The scientists leading the administration’s fight estimated the virus could kill between 100,000 and 240,000 Americans.”
White House’s own people saying this. If you trust our President and Governor like I do it’s getting real.
I underestimated this stuff. Have no shame in saying so. Doesn’t mean that those us of who had doubts still didn’t do our part that we were asked to do weeks ago.
I cannot wait for Easter Mass with the POTUS once all of this is behind us! His 3 wives, Stormy, and I have reserved the front row to support our ever so holy Christian leader.
Ok, sorry – I vowed for no more of that.
Yes, a lot of people here vastly underestimated this. There’s no precedent involved with the pandemic and what it is doing to Americans health and the economy. It’s going to be a long road to recovery. This will be one of those events that we look back on years from now and will hopefully have learned a lot from. There was some good advice shared above about looking out for neighbors, elderly, and others who need it. If you don’t need the help, be very thankful and count your blessings.
One Random Positive Outcome: One of my neighbors who is an anti-vaxer through and through finally admitted that a world that is short just ONE established vaccine can look like this and said he and his wife are planning to have both of their kids vaccinated ASAP.
I cannot wait for Easter Mass with the POTUS once all of this is behind us! His 3 wives, Stormy, and I have reserved the front row to support our ever so holy Christian leader.
Ok, sorry – I vowed for no more of that.
Just couldn’t help yourself could ya. And things were going so good for about a week or so and now we have two threads veering back into this crap.
Maybe you need to go join philtickelson. 
A month ago I thought it was being blown out of proportion. It took me 3 days to change my mind. This is way more serious than most of the people in the Midwest think. I am so glad I live in a small town.
I worry about my children who along with their families live in bigger cities. 2 of my children and their spouses can work from home. My 1 son has to go to work because his company cleans plants that are essential to the food supply chain. I worry about him alot. The pandemic is not going away anytime soon. JMO
A month ago I thought it was being blown out of proportion. It took me 3 days to change my mind. This is way more serious than most of the people in the Midwest think. I am so glad I live in a small town.
I worry about my children who along with their families live in bigger cities. 2 of my children and their spouses can work from home. My 1 son has to go to work because his company cleans plants that are essential to the food supply chain. I worry about him alot. The pandemic is not going away anytime soon. JMO
Great point about the small towns. I couldn’t be more thankful to live in a rural area through all of this for both the lower number of cases and the peace. A walk in the woods each evening the past week has done wonders.
Great point about the small towns
Hope you dont have a lake near your town because many with a boat don’t care about you and your family.
We are going to learn that Minnesota is a bit better than most states. That right wing or left wing we believe in communinty, the public good and the need for competent public office holders and public officals. And we are all going to learn that its really easy to get fat quick.
We are going to learn that Minnesota is a bit better than most states. That right wing or left wing we believe in communinty, the public good and the need for competent public office holders and public officals. And we are all going to learn that its really easy to get fat quick.
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