What Will Be Forever Changed?

phishingruven01 wrote:

and people defend this ego maniac liar?

Donald Trump said all of these things.

January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

February 25: “I think that’s a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

February 26: “We’re going very substantially down, not up.”

February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28: “We’re ordering a lot of supplies. We’re ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn’t be ordering unless it was something like this. But we’re ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

February 28: “Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, you know that, right? Coronavirus, they’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, ‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa.” “They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They’d been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning. They lost. It’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax.”

March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don’t think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

March 6: “I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault.”

March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”

March 9: “This blindsided the world.”

Edit: March 9: “The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant.”

March 10: “It will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”

March 13: National Emergency Declaration

March 13: “I don’t take responsibility at all”

March 15: “TODAY IS A NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER. GOD BLESS EVERYONE!”

March 16: “I give myself a 10 out of 10”

A leader choosing not to panic the masses. Sounds right to me.
I never bitched and moaned about any Presidents in my life whether I liked them or not. Some of you guys are unbelievable. Truly, Unbelievable.
Treating our own President this badly is also unforgivable. I know I wont forgive anyone for doing it.

Trump is the greatest or the worst and nothing we say to each other is gonna change anyone elses opinion. This was a good thread before the trump talk was brought in. Let’s try and get back on topic

Whoah this is a big hornets nest

I’m saddened by this thread, truly saddened.

Unfortunately we now live in a media crazed drama filled world, led by our own Government. People are going to over react to every little situation. Thus the reason for people hording and panicking. The lefties are going to try to excite panic in everyone, blaming it on the right, so they can get elected and make money off the panic. Righties are going to try and underscore the seriousness, to lessen panic, to try and keep there jobs, and make more money. People want drama, Government want power and money. Welcome to today’s USA.

I have an idea,

Containment centers built onto hospitals front entrance, I diffidently could see that happening.

What I hope will happen:
People realize that far too much of our country’s population think it’s the governments problem to fix everything and provide everything for them.

People ask themselves “what can I do to be better prepared next time this happens?”

People buy their guns and ammo when they are cheap and plentiful.

People demand fiscal reform and an end to printing money.

What will happen:
A few people will become preppers.
A few people will get better at saving money.
A few people will become self reliant.
Most will care less, forget, and openly ask for more government intrusion in their lives to “prevent the next panic.”

Interesting that it appears the same folks who prefer to talk down our leadership seem to have found a friend in the Communist Chinese government.
I don’t recall seeing nary a single negative post against the Chi-Coms to where the entire blame for all this really belongs. Perhaps the Chi-Coms are forgiven as they have provided them with the much needed fuel to keep the hate going.

We are here because of the decisions made by the Chinese government. Not ours. Not a word how the communists destroyed samples and suppressed information. How the communists spent all of January denying that there was any human to human contact when they knew in early December. How doctor Li Wenliang who dared shared his suspicions in a private chat room with his fellow medical school graduates was quickly summoned along with 7 others by the communist authorities and accused of propagating false rumors about a SARS like virus in the area.

The communists knowing they had this human to human virus allowed tens of thousands to gather to celebrate the Chinese Lunar New year banquet and then let a estimated five million people leave Wuhan. Not to mention much of this and worse continues.

So the communists are much better at stopping the spread of information than they are at stopping the spread of a virus.
But it’s much easier for the intellectual lazy to keep blaming our leadership. If the communists had taken just one of the steps we have when they first knew of this we would all would very likely be talking about fishing instead of this.

I would offer that you should be damn happy and grateful you are living here under this leadership than living under the leadership where this all started.
This is still a free country and once travel bans are lifted you are free to change you’re allegiance and move and live under the much better communist government who of course never lie about anything. That is if they bother to tell you anything at all.

Putting on my tin foil hat for a minute to talk about the Chi Coms…

The Chinese were being beaten up by US tariffs and new trade deals. They were beating back the Hong Kong protests while the world watched. Any possibility they intentionally released this virus and let it spread awhile knowing they could forcibly lock down their population and eventually stop it within China once it spread enough to put the Western world into total meltdown?

Or maybe a bat did crap in someone’s soup and it’s as simple as that?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/timeline-trump-covid19-responses/

A little more context

Ice Cap wrote:

I don’t recall seeing nary a single negative post against the Chi-Coms to where the entire blame for all this really belongs.

We don’t have any control or say in China’s actions and, regardless of how wrong they were, we have to deal with what is facing us now.

Also, don’t forget what the president says about leadership:

Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.

Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 8, 2013

Suzuki…i wont forgive anyone who defends trump and his words and course of action on covid 19. In 2018 trump fired the people that would have taken this task to the mat.

For all you people that live in your anti-Trump glass houses. There is nothing Trump’s Administration, or any other Administration could have done to STOP this pandemic from getting to the USA. In today’s world of international travel, and socialization of business, it was going to get here sooner or later. And with the ease that it is transmitted, without early warning symptoms, it was going to spread regardless. Blaming Trump for covid-19 being in the country, is like blaming you for it being in your state, city or zip code…..why didn’t you do something to prevent that????

Back to the OP’s question……….I can tell what is confirmed by all this.. I won’t be eating Pangolin or Civet Cats from a Chinese “wet market”.

The rest is up in the air.

joe-winter wrote:

Back to the OP’s question……….I can tell what is confirmed by all this.. I won’t be eating Pangolin or Civet Cats from a Chinese “wet market”.

The rest is up in the air.

What about bats? I hear they’re decent if you use a ton of bbq or buffalo sauce.

gimruis wrote:

What about bats? I hear they’re decent if you use a ton of bbq or buffalo sauce.

Research is showing straight bat is still on the table.

Similar to here in MN …… Straight snail or straight duck is good… duck consumes snail – $hits in water and Voila “swimmer’s itch.

suzuki wrote:

A leader choosing not to panic the masses. Sounds right to me.
I never bitched and moaned about any Presidents in my life whether I liked them or not. Some of you guys are unbelievable. Truly, Unbelievable.
Treating our own President this badly is also unforgivable. I know I wont forgive anyone for doing it.

Delusion is a stinky cologne my friend. If you read those and see ‘ a leader not trying to panic the masses’ you are something special. Did we hurt the poor president’s feelings? If you want to be president you better have some thick skin. Or are you advocating for some requirement that everyone say only nice things about our commander in chief? That sounds like a different type of government, wish I could think of some examples that fit that mold….hmmm.

Ice Cap wrote:

Interesting that it appears the same folks who prefer to talk down our leadership seem to have found a friend in the Communist Chinese government.

Complaining about our leadership and not mentioning the Chinese government is VERY different than being sympathetic to them. Of course there is a huge amount of blame that falls on their shoulders. But the US and our government can’t control what China did, all we can control is how we react. And we reacted by ignoring, calling it a hoax, demonizing democrats for trying to use this as a political weapon, ignoring experts, etc.

Dutchboy wrote:

Hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. You are lucky there is a two term limit on the Presidency or you would drive yourselves insane trying to take this guy down. At some point please understand you haven’t yet nor will in the future offer the voters a better alternative. You keep rolling the same old tired people out to try and beat him.

Trump isn’t the greatest, but he is the best option for the country we have.

So, knock yourselves out coming up with things he said, things he did, people he strong armed. Keep running up the Hillary’s of the world for him to compete against. Then prepare yourselves for 4 more years of Trump because your party can’t find anything better.

We actually agree on a lot more than you think dutch :). There may be an assumption that because I’m outspoken about our president and other shared viewpoints of far-righters that I LOVE the DNC or something. Couldn’t be more false. The DNC is just as crooked and has continued to fail time and time again. I did not like Hillary, I do not like Joe. The DNC anointing Joe Biden as their guy has all but gifted the next 4 years to Trump.

Just do me a favor, just because I bad mouth Trump any chance I get doesn’t mean I’m smoochin butt of whoever the DNC trots out there. The cult is strong on the far right, they accept whatever fart comes out of orangeman’s mouth and pretend that it doesn’t stink like *&*$, but I believe whoever’s in charge or nominated should be held accountable.

munchy wrote:

This may be time for you clowns to actually support our president.

Or mayhaps “Orangeman bad” hijacked her account?

I don’t know man, this sounds an awful lot like socialism. I can’t accept government handouts like some lazy, homeless, jobless hack. If you aren’t making money right now then pull yourself up by the bootstraps and figure it out snowflake, that’s life.
/sarcasm

In all actuality, that’s a good move. Now I’d like to see them ban stock buy-backs from corporations after they receive their inevitable bailouts. This is the RIGHT way to do things though. Bail out the people first and not the corporations.

Again, it isn’t that hard. If you don’t have jobs you don’t have wages which create buying power which creates spending. It’s that vicious circle that produces taxes which allows us to live the way we do.

Now, you can advocate NOT BAILING OUT corporations but you better show me where the jobs and tax dollars are coming from.

phishingruven01 wrote:

Suzuki…i wont forgive anyone who defends trump and his words and course of action on covid 19. In 2018 trump fired the people that would have taken this task to the mat.

Haters make me laugh !!!

Maybe wishful thinking, but one thing I hope sticks with people…

We just had an open-air meeting with the 6 closest neighbors. We agreed that we need to join together and take on things as a little tribe almost. Some neighbors are needing child care because they still have to report to work but daycare and schools are shut down.

Another couple is elderly and we agreed that they should not go out at all due to health issues that would make it very bad if they were to contract the virus. So we’re going to do their shopping and Rx pickups today.

A divorced mom of 2 teenaged boys is hourly and laid off. She needs a job, food, and has run out internet GBs on her phone. She’s also really distraught almost to the point of being a basket case. We clubbed together and Mrs Grouse nd another lady are going to go over and work with her on her unemployment filing this afternoon, we gave her the password our wifi and I topped up her phone. Some other neighbors are going out to buy groceries for her.

Basically, I hope people forget these fantasies about when the spit hits the spam they are going to go it alone out in the woods. BS. What makes this work is your ability to form up a tribe and help each other.

Grouse

Very cool Grouse. And yeah, hopefully everyone is better prepared for changing conditions in the future. I’m 35; the Boomer generation of my parents and aunts/uncles was raised by the generation who went through the depression, and in a lot of ways that way of life hasn’t changed much in the rural area of southeast MN I’m from. Even growing up in the 80’s/90’s we had supplies in freezers, slept multiple kids to a bed, washed and reused Ziploc bags, etc. Maybe farm life has something to do with it, because all it takes is a few inches of snow and you can’t make it into town, so you’ve got to have essentials around the vast majority of the time. Hopefully others will do this more often.

Dutchboy wrote:

Again, it isn’t that hard. If you don’t have jobs you don’t have wages which create buying power which creates spending. It’s that vicious circle that produces taxes which allows us to live the way we do.

Now, you can advocate NOT BAILING OUT corporations but you better show me where the jobs and tax dollars are coming from.

I think I agree in part Dutch, it’s just recently we’ve seen example after example of companies using money from tax breaks to buy-back stocks, which doesn’t do anything for the economy or the people. It just consolidates power wealth even further. That doesn’t give the economy a boost or help the average American.

What increases buying power more. Giving a billionaire an extra billion dollars a month, or giving a million people a thousand dollars a month each? Bailing out corporations could work if that money is funneled down to the employees. But if it’s not, then it’s just going into the owners/shareholders/executives pockets. And they could give a *&(*& about their employees.

As for where the tax dollars will come from, that’s an easy one! Mexico will pay for it! Or what’s another couple trillion on the national debt?

Safety over Freedom will cause the complete loss of Feeedom eventually.Its been getting picked away at slowly but surely.Lets just hope the Invasive Species people dont get wind of how effective slowing the spread if this virus has been,even tho its here and its going to spread no matter what Freedom is lost.

philtickelson wrote:

using money from tax breaks to buy-back stocks, which doesn’t do anything for the economy or the people

Yes it does. It allows companies to grow and hire more workers. More workers paying taxes is good for everyone. That is what has been happening since the Trump tax cuts have been in place.

Also, for average working Americans. You are paying less tax on your income. This puts more spending money in workers pockets.

Notice the word “Workers”. You need to have a job. Hand outs are not part of any working equation.

-J.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Maybe wishful thinking, but one thing I hope sticks with people…

Good stuff Grouse, we haven’t had any in-person meetings, but have been sharing some texts back and forth the past few days with our neighbors. So far so good, but a couple of our neighbors are a bit older. I’m trying to walk the line of being helpful but not patronizing, if that makes sense.

Jon Jordan wrote:
Yes it does. It allows companies to grow and hire more workers. More workers paying taxes is good for everyone. That is what has been happening since the Trump tax cuts have been in place.

No, it doesn’t. Stock buybacks create wealth for shareholders while not adding any working capital for the company. Actually, the money spent on buybacks decreases working capital, preventing companies from investing in new capital equipment and the people to run them.

philtickelson wrote:

What increases buying power more. Giving a billionaire an extra billion dollars a month, or giving a million people a thousand dollars a month each? Bailing out corporations could work if that money is funneled down to the employees. But if it’s not, then it’s just going into the owners/shareholders/executives pockets. And they could give a *&(*& about their employees.

See you just don’t get it. You can hand out a $500 check each and every month to people. They still will be broke because they don’t need to work.

Like JJ said, what difference does it make what I do with bailout money if i’m employing 1000 people. 1000 tax paying, wage earning jobs.

Jobs Phil, you gotta have jobs.

Dutchboy wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>philtickelson wrote:</div>
See you just don’t get it. You can hand out a $500 check each and every month to people. They still will be broke because they don’t need to work.

Like JJ said, what difference does it make what I do with bailout money if i’m employing 1000 people. 1000 tax paying, wage earning jobs.

Jobs Phil, you gotta have jobs.

The challenge is that companies did not take bailout money in the last recession and invest in employees/jobs. They cleaned up their balance sheets, bought back shares and generally did jack sh!t for their employees.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Maybe wishful thinking, but one thing I hope sticks with people…

We just had an open-air meeting with the 6 closest neighbors. We agreed that we need to join together and take on things as a little tribe almost. Some neighbors are needing child care because they still have to report to work but daycare and schools are shut down.

Another couple is elderly and we agreed that they should not go out at all due to health issues that would make it very bad if they were to contract the virus. So we’re going to do their shopping and Rx pickups today.

A divorced mom of 2 teenaged boys is hourly and laid off. She needs a job, food, and has run out internet GBs on her phone. She’s also really distraught almost to the point of being a basket case. We clubbed together and Mrs Grouse nd another lady are going to go over and work with her on her unemployment filing this afternoon, we gave her the password our wifi and I topped up her phone. Some other neighbors are going out to buy groceries for her.

Basically, I hope people forget these fantasies about when the spit hits the spam they are going to go it alone out in the woods. BS. What makes this work is your ability to form up a tribe and help each other.

Grouse

I knew it would be worth reading through all of this! Good job!

We much like Grouse are getting back to a real sense of community. My wife and I are both able to work from home. My youngest is 12 so she is old enough to babysit so she and her classmates are taking kids that need watching. Their teachers are letting them count helping the younger kids with online school as part of their cirriculum. My wife has been like a shuttle service for people and kids. She gets up around 530 which is earlier than if she was working. To go around and start getting kids picked up so parents can get ready for work.

I really hope that some of the looking out for each other stays. The way the high school and middle school kids have volunteered to help has really been amazing. I hope too that companies start to recognize that if someone is sick, they’re sick and not punish them. I know that one is going to be tough to accomplish. I Hope this gets people eating better and just living healthier in general, it’s one of the best things you can do to prevent or minimize getting sick.