What is the truth behind recycling?

  • Hey
    Posts: 168
    #2192340

    You can get rid of soft plastic fishing baits and replace with live bait.

    Doesn’t get any greener or biodegradable then that. At least that’s a start right?

    Cutting down trees for packaging is like burning food (corn) for fuel.

    With everything going on in the world right now plastic bags should be like number 10,000,000 down the list.

    Please tell me more about all the people dying in the world because of plastic bags. Why can’t they go into a landfill like everything else?

    Take a poll. What type of plastic pollutes more lakes and rivers. Plastic bags or plastic from people who fish.

    Slobs who litter isn’t a plastic bag problem it’s a slob problem.

    Hey
    Posts: 168
    #2192341

    Anyone know what PVC is? Ever heard of dioxin?

    Do you know that some soft plastic baits are made from soft PVC and are a zillion times more harmful than a plastic bag could ever be?

    There are many types of plastic. Please be informed.

    But let’s ban the harmless plastic bag because people are slobs.

    And let’s fish with one of the most nasty plastics possible cause ignorance is bliss.

    supercat
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts: 1332
    #2192346

    Anyone know what PVC is? Ever heard of dioxin?

    Do you know that some soft plastic baits are made from soft PVC and are a zillion times more harmful than a plastic bag could ever be?

    There are many types of plastic. Please be informed.

    But let’s ban the harmless plastic bag because people are slobs.

    And let’s fish with one of the most nasty plastics possible cause ignorance is bliss.

    Like it or not hey does state a valid point

    icex
    Posts: 235
    #2192347

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
    When I lived on Maui, they outlawed plastic bags.. it was not a big deal. We just took our re-usable cloth bags to the stores… at Target, there were no bags other than the re-useable ones they sold for .99 Most grocery stores also had the re-useable, but most also had paper that were .20 per bag… for the tourists who didn’t know better than to bring their own ! They also got rid of all plastic food containers for take out, no more styrofoam, it was either cardboard or biodegradable products. Straws were either stainless steel or paper… it wasn’t hard to get used to.

    Duluth has tried to get rid of plastic bags by making retailers charge 10 cents for them. A lot of folks dam near lost their mind over it and all the “too much government” folks started beating their drum. I’ve used reusable cloth shopping bags for the last several years. Way easier because you can fit way more in the bags.

    I think it’s five cents a bag. It’s a nightmare for Super One as they had to come up with a separate system just for their Duluth stores. I have shopped Duluth Super Ones and most of them don’t ask you paper or plastic and aren’t even charging you. Besides the plastic bags are biodegradable. If you find one that’s been laying in the woods for awhile it is already breaking down. In places like California where they are banned all together guess what? Sales of small and medium sized trash bags skyrocketed because people reused those plastic grocery bags for doing a lot of different things and they needed something to replace those bags. Lining the small trash cans in their house. Picking up dog crap in the yard or when walking the dog etc. etc. It’s not like people were going home unloading their groceries and then throwing all these bags in the wind. When everything you buy in the store is in a plastic container or bottle charging extra or banning the plastic bags you take that stuff home in seems nonsensical.

    So all this leads to use of more paper bags. Sure they degrade faster when one gets loose in the wild but it takes a lot more energy to make then versus a plastic bag. And we know we have to cut trees down to make paper. So between the increase in plastic bag sales and the increase in energy creating more paper bags you’ve done the opposite of what the intent was and that was saving the environment from total collapse and destruction cause by the plastic bag.

    Another one of Emily Larsons pet feel good projects.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16646
    #2192349

    I think everyone can agree there is to much plastic in the world. The question becomes how to replace it.

    supercat
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts: 1332
    #2192354

    I think everyone can agree there is to much plastic in the world. The question becomes how to replace it.

    I think everyone can agree there is to much (fill in the blank) in the world. The question becomes how to replace it.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22418
    #2192378

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
    I think everyone can agree there is to much plastic in the world. The question becomes how to replace it.

    I think everyone can agree there is to much (fill in the blank) in the world. The question becomes how to replace it.

    How to replace it ? That’s what I am saying they did in Maui.. replaced plastic with re-useable cloth bags and when necessary, paper bags. Both are renewable, recyclable & decompose in landfills in months rather than 1000 years. If the deal is you have to give up your plastics for fishing or you are not making valid points or helping the issue, that is incorrect.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11589
    #2192440

    How to replace it ? That’s what I am saying they did in Maui.. replaced plastic with re-useable cloth bags and when necessary, paper bags.

    Exactly right and totally agree. Common sense conservatation of resources and an effective way to tackle a disgusting pollution and litter problem.

    BTW, side benefit. I freaking love the great big reusable grocery bags. You can put so much more in them and it’s so much faster and easier to pack them and to unload after shopping. Love them.

    Unfortunately, to be at all effective, it has to be mandatory.
    Which triggers that small but very loud segment of the population who will go crazy touting this as an unconscionable violation of their God-given freedom and constitutional rights and a massive Big Government overreach into their intimate personal spaces.

    Now we could say it’s a grocery sack, get a grip and get on with your lives. But we don’t. And so we do what we’ve always done and get what we’ve always gotten. Can’t even agree on cleaning up the ditches, lakes and parks.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16646
    #2192450

    My grocery store will often have a pile of empty boxes at the front of the store for customer use. They work well. Today I shopped at Super One and picked up a couple of reusable bags. Grouse is right, you can pile a lot of groceries in those.

    It will be a lot to ask to have people switch over from plastic, after all many of those people are the same ones trashing the ice when they leave. coffee

    glenn57
    cold spring mn
    Posts: 11761
    #2192488

    i should start using them..we have a few. some friend of my moms makes these bags from dog food or sunflower seeds bags!!!!!

    Gitchi Gummi
    Posts: 2997
    #2192503

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Hey wrote:</div>
    Anyone know what PVC is? Ever heard of dioxin?

    Do you know that some soft plastic baits are made from soft PVC and are a zillion times more harmful than a plastic bag could ever be?

    There are many types of plastic. Please be informed.

    But let’s ban the harmless plastic bag because people are slobs.

    And let’s fish with one of the most nasty plastics possible cause ignorance is bliss.

    Like it or not hey does state a valid point

    +1.. he has a very, very valid point.

    Hey
    Posts: 168
    #2192513

    Aluminum cans—-there are not enough bauxite mines in the world to support this long term. Then people will complain that an aluminum boat costs 150k and you’re buying a can of coke for $10.

    Glass—again the limestone mines can’t support this long term. Please take the time to read about what glass is made of then all the supply chain ripple effects that would occur. It’s just not an option.

    Hasn’t COVID taught us many lessons about supply chain? Glass and aluminum to replace plastic is just not doable.

    There is a very good reason many types of packaging has switched over to plastic.

    Talk your doctor about those super nice cloth bags in the grocery stores. Big time disease vectors unless you wash them after every use. Plastic bags are the way to go.

    Hey
    Posts: 168
    #2192517

    And the way overpackaged with plastic stuff out there. It is packaged like that to survive a trip across the ocean in a container.

    Start buying American made products! Problem solved

    Sharon
    Moderator
    SE Metro
    Posts: 5451
    #2192981

    Interesting that this thread came up about the time the city of IGH included this info in their newsletter. Good info to know! waytogo

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    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 8129
    #2193007

    Aluminum cans—-there are not enough bauxite mines in the world to support this long term. Then people will complain that an aluminum boat costs 150k and you’re buying a can of coke for $10.

    Glass—again the limestone mines can’t support this long term. Please take the time to read about what glass is made of then all the supply chain ripple effects that would occur. It’s just not an option.

    Hasn’t COVID taught us many lessons about supply chain? Glass and aluminum to replace plastic is just not doable.

    There is a very good reason many types of packaging has switched over to plastic.

    Talk your doctor about those super nice cloth bags in the grocery stores. Big time disease vectors unless you wash them after every use. Plastic bags are the way to go.

    I’m going to go out on a limb and guess we do not share the same doctor

    coffee

    Coletrain27
    Posts: 4789
    #2193012

    I’m going to go out on a limb and guess we do not share the same doctor

    coffee

    you mean you dont talk to your doctor about grocery store bags?

    lindyrig79
    Forest Lake / Lake Mille Lacs
    Posts: 5795
    #2193017

    What is the truth behind recycling?

    “You can’t handle the truth!”

    smile

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22418
    #2193053

    Your doctor also recommends you wash and disinfect the seat where you put your groceries on, plastic or cloth bag… a bacteria factory. coffee jester rotflol

    Hey
    Posts: 168
    #2193184

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Hey wrote:</div>
    Aluminum cans—-there are not enough bauxite mines in the world to support this long term. Then people will complain that an aluminum boat costs 150k and you’re buying a can of coke for $10.

    Glass—again the limestone mines can’t support this long term. Please take the time to read about what glass is made of then all the supply chain ripple effects that would occur. It’s just not an option.

    Hasn’t COVID taught us many lessons about supply chain? Glass and aluminum to replace plastic is just not doable.

    There is a very good reason many types of packaging has switched over to plastic.

    Talk your doctor about those super nice cloth bags in the grocery stores. Big time disease vectors unless you wash them after every use. Plastic bags are the way to go.

    I’m going to go out on a limb and guess we do not share the same doctor

    Maybe you should find a new one?

    Reusable grocery bags can be a breeding ground for dangerous food-borne bacteria and pose a serious risk to public health, according to a joint food-safety research report issued today by the University of Arizona and Loma Linda University in California.

    “Our findings suggest a serious threat to public health, especially from coliform bacteria including E. coli, which were detected in half of the bags sampled,” said Charles Gerba, a UA professor of soil, water and environmental science and co-author of the study. “Furthermore, consumers are alarmingly unaware of these risks and the critical need to sanitize their bags on a weekly basis.”
    Bacteria levels found in reusable bags were significant enough to cause a wide range of serious health problems and even death. They are a particular danger for young children, who are especially vulnerable to food-borne illnesses, Gerba said.
    The study also found that awareness of potential risks was very low. A full 97 percent of those interviewed never washed or bleached their reusable bags.

    Coletrain27
    Posts: 4789
    #2193192

    I think I saw you the other day at the grocery store HEY!

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    nord
    Posts: 738
    #2193197

    Coletrain27,that is just too damn funny!! Thanks for getting my morning off to a good start. I agree that plastic bags have to go .

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22418
    #2193218

    Remember the “masks”….? The cloth ones that auntie sewed for you, because The N95’s that actually worked were only for healthcare ? Talk about nasty… I will take my chances with cloth bags over masks !!! rotflol rotflol rotflol

    stillakid2
    Roberts, WI
    Posts: 4603
    #2193265

    There’s so much becoming included in this conversation, which indicates the span of difficulty this mess really involves. But I have a few thoughts:

    If we recycle and use the cardboard, aluminum, and glass the way we’re supposed to, the mines aren’t going to be nearly as critical in the production. This does mean that industry would have to work with the recycled product instead of raw materials. Guess which is cheaper and what drives that factor?

    Bags may carry contaminants. If made of cloth, fine. Wash them like towels. Get the word out. We’re still in greater danger from using the same door handles, gas pumps, and sharing household space with children/other residents. Fact is still this… we do NOT do enough to strengthen our immune systems. We are TOO CLEAN and that is causing health disorders. The body needs something to attack. Period. Also, University/college/industry studies all come from controlled environments for research. They create the problem and report on it, whether it’s really MY problem or not, not to mention how statistics are easily manipulated to create persuasion.

    Biodegradable… means NOTHING. When the product breaks down, it doesn’t turn to dirt. It returns to a molecular level, gets into our soil and water supply. How many people feel like eating or drinking plastic? THAT… is your “biodegradable” product.

    We can improve our own environments, but it’s also a fact that China is putting far more pollutants into our oceans than anyone else. The idea that this problem is just our problem is preposterous. From a nation that cares not if it’s population reduces, I doubt we’ll see much cooperation.

    Bottomline? Who are we kidding? The answers to this issue should have been addressed before WWII. Money is still the driving force of everything and the problem is already too large to think that “our little bit” is going to save any of us from being affected. The knowledge and technology is there. We have solutions. But it’s not financially lucrative, and that is what still drives the problem. Whether plastic breaks down in 1000yrs or a few months, it’s still molecular plastic getting into everything. It simply does not break down any further or naturally become something useful.

    So, I do little things really, just to make myself feel like I’m doing my part in not adding to the continuation of the problem. I wash/refill my water jugs/bottles with my well water. I also use containers instead of plastic cups. I try to reuse anything I can, but outside of buying a small warehouse, I eventually run out of space. I do not fear reuseable grocery bags. If something smells funky, wipe it down or wash it. But realize, sooner or later, the mess we already have will become more than it is, whether we do these little things or not.

    It’s already too late.

    Hey
    Posts: 168
    #2193419

    I think I saw you the other day at the grocery store HEY!

    I think I saw you the other day at the grocery store HEY!

    Classic rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion to some irrelevant issue.

    Coletrain27
    Posts: 4789
    #2193423

    Irrelevant just like any sort of safety study from the great state of California

    catnip
    south metro
    Posts: 627
    #2193429

    Hey I must point out that you are incorrect. You can indeed go fishing with zero plastic involved. Rod and reel fishing was around long before plastic was invented. Same goes for the boat. If it can’t be recycled is it worth the convenience is the question.

    Hey
    Posts: 168
    #2193771

    Hey I must point out that you are incorrect. You can indeed go fishing with zero plastic involved. Rod and reel fishing was around long before plastic was invented. Same goes for the boat. If it can’t be recycled is it worth the convenience is the question.

    Please let me know what your zero plastic set-up would be for fishing.

    Mono, fluoro, and braided fishing line are all made from plastic. Please let me know how to over come this issue.

    Rods. The resin used in fiberglass rods are thermoset resins. It’s plastic and glass. Same thing with the resin used to build rods, coat the blank and coat where the guides are connected to the rod. Only rods without plastic are made from trees.

    Reels. I’m having a hard time finding a fishing reel without plastic parts. And without plastic line how can you cast?

    No trolling motor, or batteries to power that motor. No battery to start your engine. No engines that I’m aware of that don’t have plastic somewhere in the equation. No fishing graphs or transducers. Go look in your boat and all the plastic that goes into it.

    Wood or aluminum boat with oars or a paddle I guess is what you are left with. Fiberglass boats would be out too.

    Cross out all the plastic baits and what’s left to fish with? Live bait?

    How is bait packaged at the bait shop? Plastic containers or foam. What bait bucket or aerotor will you use that’s not plastic. No more plastic bags for minnows at the bait shop. You’re stuck digging up your yard for worms and trapping minnows and leeches yourself I guess.

    I’m just curious what your no plastic fishing set-up looks like.

    My opinion it’s just silly all the attention a plastic grocery store bag gets.

    Hey
    Posts: 168
    #2193785

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
    How to replace it ? That’s what I am saying they did in Maui.. replaced plastic with re-useable cloth bags and when necessary, paper bags.

    Exactly right and totally agree. Common sense conservatation of resources and an effective way to tackle a disgusting pollution and litter problem.

    BTW, side benefit. I freaking love the great big reusable grocery bags. You can put so much more in them and it’s so much faster and easier to pack them and to unload after shopping. Love them.

    Unfortunately, to be at all effective, it has to be mandatory.
    Which triggers that small but very loud segment of the population who will go crazy touting this as an unconscionable violation of their God-given freedom and constitutional rights and a massive Big Government overreach into their intimate personal spaces.

    Now we could say it’s a grocery sack, get a grip and get on with your lives. But we don’t. And so we do what we’ve always done and get what we’ve always gotten. Can’t even agree on cleaning up the ditches, lakes and parks.

    New guidance on those great big reusable grocery bags. You can’t make this stuff up. You need to bring your own plastic bags into the store with you. What is being accomplished?

    At the Store
    * Put meat, poultry, and fish in disposable plastic bags before placing in a reusable bag to prevent juices from leaking and contaminating the bag or other food items.
    * Use a separate reusable bag for fresh or frozen raw meat, poultry and fish to avoid cross-contamination with produce or ready-to-eat foods.

    Brittman
    Posts: 1940
    #2194282

    Plastic is fine in a recycling plant or landfill. Plastic could likley be incinerated in cement kilns as fuel.

    Plastic dumped into the ocean by people, ships, and poor governments is not fine. The plastic does not decompose, but it does break down into microspheres – in there is the basic problem.

    Most of our garbage is contained in grocery store t-shirt bags (repurpose). Eliminates the need to buy and use plastic bags except when the larger size is truly needed.

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