What a bunch of bolony!

  • Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10434
    #1884266

    It’s articles like this that frighten our youth into believing there is a problem when there isn’t. The last paragraph says it all and should be enough for the article not to have been written at all.
    Science – what a bunch of hogwash. Don’t give me that science bull either. In the 70’s the “science” was we were going to run out of crude oil by 2000.

    Loons likely to disappear from Minnesota due to climate change, new report warns
    Minnesota is one of the country’s fastest-warming states, largely because of its northern location and warming winters.
    By Jennifer Bjorhus Star Tribune OCTOBER 11, 2019 — 9:27PM

    DAVID JOLES – STAR TRIBUNE
    Loons are among 55 species likely to disappear from Minnesota summers by 2080, though the population appears steady.
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    Minnesota could lose its beloved state bird in coming decades if humans don’t stall climate change and prevent the common loon from shifting north.

    The black and white bird — whose haunting cries define Minnesota as much as lakes, snow and hot dish — is among 55 species likely to disappear from the state for the summer by 2080 if the world does nothing to cut greenhouse-gas emissions, according to a new report by the National Audubon Society, Survival by Degrees: 389 Bird Species on the Brink.

    Minnesota is one of the country’s fastest-warming states, largely because of its northern location and warming winters. Even if humans stall global warming at 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 degrees Fahrenheit), several bird species in Minnesota remain threatened, including the trumpeter swan, the spruce grouse and the black-throated green warbler. An increase of 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit is the threshold set by climate scientists to prevent the worst impacts of warming.

    “If you like birds, your experience of nature will change,” said Luis Ramirez, Audubon’s director of conservation for the Upper Mississippi River Flyway.

    Even though loons are fairly adaptable, rising temperatures will make Minnesota less hospitable as their summer home. Warming lakes and more frequent algae blooms put stress on the fish communities that loons rely on for food. And as Minnesota gets more rain, rising water levels in lakes and wetlands choke out the marshy areas where loons like to build their nests. As the food and habitat change, the birds will migrate farther north, the Audubon researchers predicted.

    The report’s overall conclusion: Two-thirds of 604 North American bird species face possible extinction as the Earth’s temperatures rise, although the worst can be avoided if people cut carbon emissions and other heat-trapping greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

    Audubon’s analysis echoes a startling Cornell University study published last month in Science magazine showing that 3 billion North American birds have vanished since 1970.

    Audubon researchers reviewed studies on 604 North American bird species and modeled how their ranges would shift if the climate warms, in Celsius, by 1.5 degrees, 2 degrees and 3 degrees. The work builds on an earlier Audubon report in 2014.

    Loons may be the most celebrated of Minnesota’s winged creatures, but they are not the birds most vulnerable to climate change. Boreal species such as warblers and chickadees will suffer greater effects because they are specialists and less adaptable to changes in temperature and habitat, Ramirez said — like humans who are picky about their food and sleeping arrangements.

    Beyond cutting carbon emissions, the report said, there are small things people can do to help. Planting less manicured lawn and more native grasses, flowers, shrubs and trees provides better bird habitat, for example.

    “Minnesota has been doing a lot of good work in habitat restoration over the last 10 years,” since the state’s Legacy Amendment began funding projects across the state, Ramirez said.

    Bob Dunlap, a zoologist with the state Department of Natural Resources (DNR), said many of the birds cited as most vulnerable in the study have already been identified as having the greatest conservation needs under the state’s federally mandated Wildlife Action Plan. That means they are a priority species for the DNR, which surveys them and tries to manage them, among other things.

    Dunlap called the Audubon report an important reminder: “It’s time to do something about this,” he said.

    At the moment, the DNR does not detect a declining trend in Minnesota’s loon population. The state’s 1989 census showed about 12,000 breeding pairs across the state, and that appears to have remained stable, said Krista Larson, a DNR nongame research biologist who coordinates the state’s loon monitoring program.

    “The good news is that we’re not detecting any problems at this point,” she said.

    Deuces
    Posts: 5236
    #1884273

    Funny, I was just mentioning to some family the other day how I have been seeing many juvenile loons, figuring they were having some good year classes.

    It’s tough reading most articles nowadays. Authors always inject their own biases into them. I was interviewed for an article and when it finally came out upon reading it I thought wtf dude, that’s not what I said.

    carroll58
    Twin Cities, USA
    Posts: 2094
    #1884281

    {clipped} Authors always inject their own biases into them. I was interviewed for an article and when it finally came out upon reading it I thought wtf dude, that’s not what I said.

    That is what “Journalists” of today think they are supposed to do, Just write their biased opinions. You have to read 3 or more articles about the same subject from different media outlets to even come close to what the truth might be, or ask the person themselves.

    klang
    Posts: 176
    #1884282

    Just a few articles I found in a quick search. They can’t have it both ways. Now they are saying climate change not global warming???
    I agree in “Climate Change” Climate has been changing for 3000 years. Just not man made!
    https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2019/01/30/iowa-weather-overnight-temperatures-broke-decades-old-records-polar-vortex/2720604002/

    https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-01-28-polar-vortex-midwest-arctic-air-coldest-two-decades

    https://www.weather.gov/dvn/summary_01302019

    https://www.theweek.co.uk/weather/92023/will-2019-be-the-coldest-uk-winter-on-record

    Another cold spring storm to add to record May snowfall…..blocking pattern to break down next week…..

    carroll58
    Twin Cities, USA
    Posts: 2094
    #1884286

    All Baloney from “FAKE SCIENTISTS” to justify trying to get our Tax Dollars thru Grants to continue making it look like legitimate research. Problem is our Government has grown so big a bloated that nobody wants to really say NO to handing out all of our money.

    Pure B.S. as is pushing all of the Aquatic Invasive Species Inspections. 2 Prime Examples of Failures are in the Southwest Metro. Christmas Lake in Shorewood/Excelsior and Minnewashta in Chanhassen. Both have had virtually 100% [Full-time] inspections anytime the “PARK/Access Gates” were open and yet both have become infested with Zebra Mussels. Well over $100,000 has been spent on trying to kill them off in each lake and failed in both. Which brings my point of why are we continuing to spend our TAX DOLLARS to prevent the spread of AIS when these lakes & programs have proven the Inspections Program has failed?

    I, as the Chair of the Carver County WMO Advisory Committee will push to reduce the inspections program and open the floor to motions for other ideas to educate the public.

    Andrew Pansch
    Posts: 107
    #1884287

    The media and climate activists are all about scare tactics during weather events. When we have a bad hurricane season it’s a sign of things to come and doom and gloom. This year nothing but you won’t hear them talk about it. Huge tornado outbreaks.. ooo it’s the warming we need to do something. No that’s weather.

    Look I’m all for reducing fossil fuels and creating a better environment. Reality though is it’s going to take decades not just the snap of a finger. Those that are realists like myself look at the crap AOC says and just roll our eyes. We can make the world a better place but don’t use fear or lies. I also hate when politicians from big cities talk about how rural people need to live.

    bigpike
    Posts: 6259
    #1884292

    18 spectacularly wrong predictions made around the time of first Earth Day in 1970, expect more this year
    AEIdeas
    CARPE DIEM
    April 21, 2019
    Tomorrow (Monday, April 22) is Earth Day 2019 and time for my annual Earth Day post on spectacularly wrong predictions around the time of the first Earth Day in 1970…..

    In the May 2000 issue of Reason Magazine, award-winning science correspondent Ronald Bailey wrote an excellent article titled “Earth Day, Then and Now: The planet’s future has never looked better. Here’s why” to provide some historical perspective on the 30th anniversary of Earth Day. In that article, Bailey noted that around the time of the first Earth Day in 1970, and in the years following, there was a “torrent of apocalyptic predictions” and many of those predictions were featured in his Reason article. Well, it’s now the 49th anniversary of Earth Day, and a good time to ask the question again that Bailey asked 19 years ago: How accurate were the predictions made around the time of the first Earth Day in 1970? The answer: “The prophets of doom were not simply wrong, but spectacularly wrong,” according to Bailey. Here are 18 examples of the spectacularly wrong predictions made around 1970 when the “green holy day” (aka Earth Day) started:

    1. Harvard biologist George Wald estimated that “civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.”

    2. “We are in an environmental crisis which threatens the survival of this nation, and of the world as a suitable place of human habitation,” wrote Washington University biologist Barry Commoner in the Earth Day issue of the scholarly journal Environment.

    3. The day after the first Earth Day, the New York Times editorial page warned, “Man must stop pollution and conserve his resources, not merely to enhance existence but to save the race from intolerable deterioration and possible extinction.”

    4. “Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make,” Paul Ehrlich confidently declared in the April 1970 issue of Mademoiselle. “The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”

    5. “Most of the people who are going to die in the greatest cataclysm in the history of man have already been born,” wrote Paul Ehrlich in a 1969 essay titled “Eco-Catastrophe! “By…[1975] some experts feel that food shortages will have escalated the present level of world hunger and starvation into famines of unbelievable proportions. Other experts, more optimistic, think the ultimate food-population collision will not occur until the decade of the 1980s.”

    6. Ehrlich sketched out his most alarmist scenario for the 1970 Earth Day issue of The Progressive, assuring readers that between 1980 and 1989, some 4 billion people, including 65 million Americans, would perish in the “Great Die-Off.”

    7. “It is already too late to avoid mass starvation,” declared Denis Hayes, the chief organizer for Earth Day, in the Spring 1970 issue of The Living Wilderness.

    8. Peter Gunter, a North Texas State University professor, wrote in 1970, “Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”

    9. In January 1970, Life reported, “Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support…the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution…by 1985 air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half….”

    10. Ecologist Kenneth Watt told Time that, “At the present rate of nitrogen buildup, it’s only a matter of time before light will be filtered out of the atmosphere and none of our land will be usable.”

    11. Barry Commoner predicted that decaying organic pollutants would use up all of the oxygen in America’s rivers, causing freshwater fish to suffocate.

    12. Paul Ehrlich chimed in, predicting in 1970 that “air pollution…is certainly going to take hundreds of thousands of lives in the next few years alone.” Ehrlich sketched a scenario in which 200,000 Americans would die in 1973 during “smog disasters” in New York and Los Angeles.

    13. Paul Ehrlich warned in the May 1970 issue of Audubon that DDT and other chlorinated hydrocarbons “may have substantially reduced the life expectancy of people born since 1945.” Ehrlich warned that Americans born since 1946…now had a life expectancy of only 49 years, and he predicted that if current patterns continued this expectancy would reach 42 years by 1980, when it might level out. (Note: According to the most recent CDC report, life expectancy in the US is 78.8 years).

    14. Ecologist Kenneth Watt declared, “By the year 2000, if present trends continue, we will be using up crude oil at such a rate…that there won’t be any more crude oil. You’ll drive up to the pump and say, Fill ‘er up, buddy,’ and he’ll say,I am very sorry, there isn’t any.’”

    15. Harrison Brown, a scientist at the National Academy of Sciences, published a chart in Scientific American that looked at metal reserves and estimated the humanity would totally run out of copper shortly after 2000. Lead, zinc, tin, gold, and silver would be gone before 1990.

    16. Sen. Gaylord Nelson wrote in Look that, “Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, secretary of the Smithsonian Institute, believes that in 25 years, somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.”

    17. In 1975, Paul Ehrlich predicted that “since more than nine-tenths of the original tropical rainforests will be removed in most areas within the next 30 years or so, it is expected that half of the organisms in these areas will vanish with it.”

    18. Kenneth Watt warned about a pending Ice Age in a speech. “The world has been chilling sharply for about twenty years,” he declared. “If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age.”

    MP: Let’s keep those spectacularly wrong predictions from the first Earth Day 1970 in mind when we’re bombarded in the next few days with media hype, and claims like this from the Earth Day website:

    Global sea levels are rising at an alarmingly fast rate — 6.7 inches in the last century alone and going higher. Surface temperatures are setting new heat records about each year. The ice sheets continue to decline, glaciers are in retreat globally, and our oceans are more acidic than ever. We could go on…which is a whole other problem.

    The majority of scientists are in agreement that human contributions to the greenhouse effect are the root cause. Essentially, gases in the atmosphere – such as methane and CO2 – trap heat and block it from escaping our planet.

    So what happens next? More droughts and heat waves, which can have devastating effects on the poorest countries and communities. Hurricanes will intensify and occur more frequently. Sea levels could rise up to four feet by 2100 – and that’s a conservative estimate among experts.

    Climate preacher/scientist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez predicted recently that “We’re like… the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change.” You can add that to the spectacularly wrong predictions made this year around the time of Earth Day 2019.

    Finally, think about this question, posed by Ronald Bailey in 2000: What will Earth look like when Earth Day 60 rolls around in 2030? Bailey predicts a much cleaner, and much richer future world, with less hunger and malnutrition, less poverty, and longer life expectancy, and with lower mineral and metal prices. But he makes one final prediction about Earth Day 2030: “There will be a disproportionately influential group of doomsters predicting that the future–and the present–never looked so bleak.” In other words, the hype, hysteria and spectacularly wrong apocalyptic predictions will continue, promoted by the virtue signalling “environmental grievance hustlers” like AOC.

    Mark J. Perry
    Mark J. Perry
    Scholar
    @Mark_J_Perry

    sji
    Posts: 421
    #1884293

    Winter of 2018-2019 record snowfall. 2019 record rainfall. First Monday of Oct 2019 record high temp and today it is snowing enough its stuck to the grass and this is in southern Mn. What is it you can see that I cant?

    Matt Moen
    South Minneapolis
    Posts: 4288
    #1884294

    Winter of 2018-2019 record snowfall. 2019 record rainfall. First Monday of Oct 2019 record high temp and today it is snowing enough its stuck to the grass and this is in southern Mn. What is it you can see that I cant?

    That’s weather not climate change. Two very different things.

    We seem to talk about this issue every few months on this forum….climate change, pollution, environmental management, etc. I think most outdoors people believe in protecting our environment. The problem with reading the stuff on the internet is it all has bias…conscious and unconscious. Most people are writing these articles to serve their cause. Some of it is laughable.

    There is nothing wrong with addressing pollution and reliance on fossil fuels or cleaning up the plastic in the ocean, etc. But, the alarmists in the media do no good for anyone.

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11646
    #1884299

    My favorite scientists are weather people because they are always right. chased whistling jester

    sji
    Posts: 421
    #1884310

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>sji wrote:</div>
    Winter of 2018-2019 record snowfall. 2019 record rainfall. First Monday of Oct 2019 record high temp and today it is snowing enough its stuck to the grass and this is in southern Mn. What is it you can see that I cant?

    That’s weather not climate change. Two very different things.

    We seem to talk about this issue every few months on this forum….climate change, pollution, environmental management, etc. I think most outdoors people believe in protecting our environment. The problem with reading the stuff on the internet is it all has bias…conscious and unconscious. Most people are writing these articles to serve their cause. Some of it is laughable.

    There is nothing wrong with addressing pollution and reliance on fossil fuels or cleaning up the plastic in the ocean, etc. But, the alarmists in the media do no good for anyone.

    Yes sir you are correct they are two different things but the climate effects the weather and that is my point. How is it we keep setting records for temp and rainfall, snowfall if nothing is changing? Why do we receive these 100 year rains every two to three years. Why have I seen three 500 year rain events in the last 20 years? Just weather?

    Steve Root
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 5623
    #1884318

    Beware of those who would cherry pick their data. This video shows how that’s done.

    S.R.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1884323

    Yay! I get to use this gif twice in the same week!

    Greta

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1884325

    Beware of those who would cherry pick their data. This video shows how that’s done.

    <div class=”ido-oembed-wrap”><iframe title=”My Gift To Climate Alarmists” width=”850″ height=”478″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/8455KEDitpU?feature=oembed&#8221; frameborder=”0″ allow=”accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture” allowfullscreen=””></iframe></div>
    S.R.

    Nice video Steve. I’m not sure why but I tried to do a little research on sea level rise a week or two ago. I came to the nasa website and found that sea level rise rates are very similar to what that guy has explained. https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

    The one thing about that video is the guy seems to infer that the climate isn’t warming. I am not sure how he can say that when the sea levels are rising. The rise in sea level is caused not only by melting ice but by thermal expansion. It’s quite obvious that a warming climate is related.

    This is the armchair climatologist in me but the graphs he highlighted showing high temperatures by year can be explained. For one, you notice that around the 1950 the high temperatures dropped sharply. This is due to crop irrigation in the Midwest. More moisture in the air make it more difficult to warm to extremes. The air is more humid. Also, as the climate warms, the more water it can hold.

    It is a fact that our climate is warming. That is not disputable.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1884327

    If they only concentrated on those things and not perpetuating climate hysteria. They bring it on themselves.

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10434
    #1884329

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>sji wrote:</div>
    Winter of 2018-2019 record snowfall. 2019 record rainfall. First Monday of Oct 2019 record high temp and today it is snowing enough its stuck to the grass and this is in southern Mn. What is it you can see that I cant?

    That’s weather not climate change. Two very different things.

    We seem to talk about this issue every few months on this forum….climate change, pollution, environmental management, etc. I think most outdoors people believe in protecting our environment. The problem with reading the stuff on the internet is it all has bias…conscious and unconscious. Most people are writing these articles to serve their cause. Some of it is laughable.

    There is nothing wrong with addressing pollution and reliance on fossil fuels or cleaning up the plastic in the ocean, etc. But, the alarmists in the media do no good for anyone.

    Yes sir you are correct they are two different things but the climate effects the weather and that is my point. How is it we keep setting records for temp and rainfall, snowfall if nothing is changing? Why do we receive these 100 year rains every two to three years. Why have I seen three 500 year rain events in the last 20 years? Just weather?

    100 and 500 year events are an insurance term not a science term.

    Steve Root
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 5623
    #1884331

    “It is a fact that our climate is warming. That is not disputable. ”

    Maybe, maybe not. I think we’re still coming out of the most recent ice age period, something that will take 10’s of thousands of years. We may warm up even more before it starts going the other way. The historical record shows that the Earth has been much warmer in the past than it is now. Look into the Milankovitch cycles. The climate has always oscillated between extremes. Individually we humans aren’t around long enough to see it.

    What I object to are those who propose that we’re all going to become extinct in 10 years, or that we’re on the verge of some enormous catastrophe. Especially those who are doing preaching doom and gloom for political reasons.

    S.R.

    sji
    Posts: 421
    #1884335

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>sji wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>sji wrote:</div>
    Winter of 2018-2019 record snowfall. 2019 record rainfall. First Monday of Oct 2019 record high temp and today it is snowing enough its stuck to the grass and this is in southern Mn. What is it you can see that I cant?

    That’s weather not climate change. Two very different things.

    We seem to talk about this issue every few months on this forum….climate change, pollution, environmental management, etc. I think most outdoors people believe in protecting our environment. The problem with reading the stuff on the internet is it all has bias…conscious and unconscious. Most people are writing these articles to serve their cause. Some of it is laughable.

    There is nothing wrong with addressing pollution and reliance on fossil fuels or cleaning up the plastic in the ocean, etc. But, the alarmists in the media do no good for anyone.

    Yes sir you are correct they are two different things but the climate effects the weather and that is my point. How is it we keep setting records for temp and rainfall, snowfall if nothing is changing? Why do we receive these 100 year rains every two to three years. Why have I seen three 500 year rain events in the last 20 years? Just weather?

    100 and 500 year events are an insurance term not a science term.

    So why do engineers use 100 and 500 year calculations to determine culvert size and flow rates for structures?

    basseyes
    Posts: 2513
    #1884344

    As per usual, both extremes are moronic.

    Denny O
    Central IOWA
    Posts: 5821
    #1884346

    What I object to are those who propose that we’re all going to become extinct in 10 years, or that we’re on the verge of some enormous catastrophe.

    S.R.

    Well Steve, maybe not in 10 years but,,,,I’ll bet ya the odds we all will be gone inside of a 100 years from now. grin

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18623
    #1884350

    News is a business. They only care about profits and bad news makes way more money.

    B-man
    Posts: 5813
    #1884365

    Moderation is key to everything.

    There are too many people on this planet……

    I hate the idea of limiting a human’s birth given right to perpetuate the species……. but we should if we want this little ball of rock with liquid water to sustain human life (which already is a blink in time by the way).

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1884366

    Now this is what I call a bunch of baloney.

    Attachments:
    1. 4CFA90AA-5D01-48B5-A896-5A1C58773646.jpeg

    B-man
    Posts: 5813
    #1884368

    This is the real problem…….

    It doesn’t take a scientist or politician to see what’s happening.

    If this simple chart doesn’t scare the hell out of you I don’t know what will.

    Consumers consume…..

    Tic-Toc…. Mother Funker

    Attachments:
    1. Screenshot_20191012-1953502.png

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1884371

    This is the real problem…….

    It doesn’t take a scientist or politician to see what’s happening.

    If this simple chart doesn’t scare the hell out of you I don’t know what will.

    Consumers consume…..

    Tic-Toc…. Mother Funker

    Is there a simple chart about the birds? I believe I read in the opening post that “3 billion North American birds have vanished since 1970.”
    coffee

    Blame that on US Bank stadium. roll

    Too bad “Chicken Little” is no longer around to tell us all “the sky is falling”… sad

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1884375

    Seems to me there are a lot of people who think we need to do something about “climate change”. If they all cut themselves off of anything co2 related they could really get things done. That means no gas transportation or any products delivered by gas fueled vehicles.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1884380

    Seems to me there are a lot of people who think we need to do something about “climate change”.

    This is sort of where I’m at. Seems as though there are no benefits to climate change. Is it really possible there are no positive effects?

    Even if we should do something, shouldn’t we weight the good against the bad before we make any significant decisions?

    It’s always such a juvenile discussion because one side says the sky is falling, the other calls it fake news. This is proof it is solely a political pawn.

    It’s a fact, the oceans are rising. Something needs to be done to assess costal communities to see if action is needed to save them. We need to assess the viability of farming in climates that may become more favorable for farming if other areas become less favorable. We may lose farmland, we may gain. Reducing/eliminating CO2 shouldn’t be the only discussion. These are topics that aren’t political pawns and can be acted upon at the local and national level.

    riverruns
    Inactive
    Posts: 2218
    #1884382

    Does my gripe about getting paper straws at a Brewer game figure into this yet? Wife got a drink with a paper straw, had to get a plastic spoon to finish the drink.

    Walleyestudent Andy Cox
    Garrison MN-Mille Lacs
    Posts: 4484
    #1884384

    It’s a fact, the oceans are rising. Something needs to be done to assess costal communities to see if action is needed to save them.

    I’d be just as glad to see California slip into the ocean. razz

    But here’s another fact, this here state of Minnesota once upon a time was half covered in ocean. Yea!

    Didn’t you take that field trip in grade school looking for trilobites?

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