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They also have a huge drug and crime problem there.Just read the ML messanger and there is always something going on.
Same thing can be said about non-indians here in the cities. Just read the Stib/Pioneer Press…..
-J.
Same thing can be said about non-indians here in the cities. Just read the Stib/Pioneer Press…..
……huh??
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Same thing can be said about non-indians here in the cities. Just read the Stib/Pioneer Press…..
……huh??
Every day the Pioneer Press prints a section of reported crimes and arrests in the metro. I’ll make a safe assumption every crime and arrest in the meto is NOT a Mille Lacs band member.
-J.
My point was they are not all the hard working people you say they are and per population I think you will find the rate much higher there.I also remember a time when you used to post a little different about them and the casinos.Did you have a little change of heart? 
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My point was they are not all the hard working people you say they are and per population I think you will find the rate much higher there.I also remember a time when you used to post a little different about them and the casinos.Did you have a little change of heart?
Yes, I can sit here and say I am friends with several band members. I too used to falsely believe the lies spread regarding how the ML band “Took all of our walleye”. It’s just not true. And neither is the false belief that the ML band are all a bunch of drunk, stoned Indians. Again, just not the truth.
I don’t agree with the politics of the band leadership. But thinking all of the band members agree with the politics of tribal leadership is as wrong as saying that every American is a Republican just because Bush is President.
People need to think for themselves. Don’t believe all of the stuff you here in the bars!
-J 
OK Jon maybe I will see ya up there and we will sit down and have a and talk about something else like fishing 
Well said Chris! When one band pushed another out they did not give them rights to some other land to use. It was a constant battle and to the victor go the spoils. What we have here is a clear case of “white” people be vilianized to the point of over compensation. We need to stop apoligizing, disolve the reservations and eliminate any treaty that gives one person in this country more or unequal right to anything. If the natives want to keep this tradition alive then I suggest they start making birch bark canoes and weaving their nets from vegetation. This mind set of we owe them has got to go. It really does no one justice, just hurts the resource and all parties involved.IMHO.
I just got an email from Rick Bruesewitz of the Minnesota DNR, in response to one I sent him asking for some info on the data so I could get my thoughts together for the “in put group” meeting.
Here is what he had to say……
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Jack, This is probably more than what you asked for, but I know how active you are on the internet boards and it sure seems to be running amok with mis-information or poor speculation. Hope this helps to clear things up for you.
1) Increase in tribal quota while State’s goes down. In December 2006, the bands presented their next 5 year plan to the state (2008-2013). Included was the declaration of 122,500 lbs as their first year take for walleye. With it, there are provisions for it to increase within that 5 years to a max of 140,000 lbs. We commented that this would put an increased burden on the state to manage its anglers within the remaining portion of the annual safe harvest level. Remember, that since the taking of 140,000 lbs is not a conservation, public health, or public safety issue, we have little recourse but to accept it at this time. Also, if the bands do not take their full allocation, whatever amount they are under their allocation can be used at the end of the year to offset any overage that the state may have in that year. In any event, the information about the increased allocation was shared with the public last summer (including the input group), and we do understand everyone’s concerns about making it more difficult to stay in allocation.
2) In regards to our allocation going down, yes, it is. This has been unfairly blamed on everything from muskies and northern pike, to fishing tournaments, to too much hooking mortality. The fact of the matter is that we expected the decline simply due to the lower abundance of the 2004 year class.
Here’s the basic scenario: Last year we started with about 2.3 million lbs of catchable walleye. Safe harvest was estimated to be about 550,000 lbs. We took that amount last year. That leaves about 1.75 million lbs of catchables remaining, but from that we need to deduct for natural mortality too (roughly about 0.45 million lbs – that’s right, no matter what, we lose a lot of fish for reasons other than angling, netting, or hooking mortality!). That leaves about 1.3 million pounds for the coming season – of fish that were available in 2007. Now we add in a little for growth for these fish, about 400,000 pounds this year (pretty good because the 02 and 03 year classes are still growing reasonably fast). OK, that then leaves us with 1.7 million pounds. Now we get to add in for the new year class, which in this case is the 2004 year class. This year class only adds in about 90,000 lbs. (in comparison the 2002 year class added almost 1 million pounds of catchables to the population when they recruited to the fishery in 2006). So that results in a net population of about 1.79 million pounds. Multiply that by 24% and we get 429,600 pounds, which is essentially our safe harvest level for 2008 – 430,000 pounds.
As I mentioned earlier the “new” year class this year is not very strong – it never was. That year class was weak from the start and its current low abundance has nothing to do with cannibalism. Also, the next year class, 2005, is looking pretty darned good, and I would expect it to add substantially to the catchable population in 2009. Although the 2006 year class is much reduced from what it looked like last year, they are still there in decent numbers and should add to the catchable population when they recruit to the fishery in 2010. Also, the 2007 year class does not look too bad either at this point, although its way too early to tell its outcome.
3) Test netting issues. Yes, we observed a much reduced gill net catch rate last fall. It certainly is a mystery as to why they were so low in just one part of the lake. The strange fall weather may have been a factor(note that water temperatures were within the range we have observed in the past during the sampling); however we just cannot say for sure why they were low. At the same time, with regards to setting the safe harvest level, we have not put as much weight in them this year either. We recognize that they may be anomalous, but at the same time we don’t want to be gambling with the Mille Lacs walleye population. That is why we need to stay within our allocation, and that is why we are going to conduct another tagging study this spring. This study will either confirm that the netting was indeed lower than it should have been, or will inform us that the population is indeed lower than we think.
4) Tribal fishery is composed mostly of males. Last year 84% of the 52,000 fish they harvested were male. That means that they killed only about 4,000 females. Also, in the spring gill net fishery, 85% of the fish they harvested were between 15 and 19 inches. The reason their catch is so skewed to smaller fish and to males is due to the mesh size of net they fish with (they are limited to between 1.25 and 1.75 inch mesh), and to the behavior of the fish. Males come into spawn, and hang out in the area for the entire spawning season; whereas, females come in to spawn, do their business, and then head back out into outer lake areas where they are not vulnerable to the nets. The ratio of females is a little higher now than when they first started fishing, because we have such a good female spawning stock now.
5) Mille Lacs has been compared to Red Lake. Not even close! You all have seen it. If we have concerns about the fishery – We do take action! On top of that, the Red Lake fishery collapsed after decades of overfishing. It resulted in a severely depressed spawning stock such that there was no hope for new year classes. Mille Lacs on the other hand has a robust spawning stock, with several new year classes waiting in the wings. To compare Mille Lacs to Red just isn’t realistic.
6) Speculating about the status of the stock based on your fishing observations is tenuous at best. Here’s why. If the stock is up, you should expect a better bite, right? Well, maybe, but if forage is up even more, then the bite will likely be worse. If the stock is down, then you’d expect a poorer bite, right? Same problem. If forage is also down, then the bite might be pretty great. What might be reasonable to speculate on is whether the bite might continue to be good or poor. In general, if the winter bite is pretty good you can expect a pretty good open water bite too. If winter is not so hot, then you can expect a not so hot open water season. The time that things change is in July. That’s when new forage from perch and tullibee enter the picture and generally things slow down a bit. The amount they slow down is then dependant on how much new forage there is. Last year it slowed pretty fast because there appeared to be a pretty good hatch of perch (maybe tullibee too). That forage may very well be why the bite this winter is less than great.
I hope I’ve been able to clear up some of the questions you had. Feel free to contact me if you need more info, or have more questions. We are working on setting up an input group meeting, and I look forward to seeing you there.
Take care, Rick
hey, we should get this guy as a regular contributor. Good info, can’t say I learned much. I can also read between the lines.
Excellent post!! Thank you for putting that one here for us to read. I guess I was right about the natives taking mostly males. 84% were males. That’s good to hear.
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Remember, that since the taking of 140,000 lbs is not a conservation, public health, or public safety issue, we have little recourse but to accept it at this time.
I guess I would like to ask Rick if there’s anything other than “conservation, public health, or a public safety issue” that could ever change the fact that the band simply says what part of the safe harvest poundage they’ll take (which I think up to 50%) and the state fisherman get the rest.
gt
So in my opinion based on what Rick said, If looking to catch some slot fish for an ocassional meal this summer your SOL. You’ll have better luck trying to buy walleye fillets from the tribal netters I guess….
Jack,
Thanks for the post and keeping us up to date.
Josh
Jack,
Thanks so much for sharing this info. Also, please thank Rick the next time you talk. We greatly appreciate this!!!
John
Good info, Jack.
It would be interesting to know of the 52,000 fish taken, how many were netted by the Mille Lacs vs the other bands.
-J.
I agree with the others that your post was great to read. Did Rick hint as to the plan of action to limit the catch to meet the requirement? I am assuming the slot size but to what extent? Could be a tough summer on the pond for all if the slot was like the second half of the season last year.
I guess I didn’t get to the ‘GUESS THE SLOT’ post before I read this and replied to this post.
Thanks for posting. I agree it would be great to have this information posted here on a consistent basis.
Well here is the big problem.Their quota is going up and ours is going down.Most years we have a hard time staying under the quota when it is 550,000.Now take off 120,000.I dont think this will be a big issue this year but it will be an issue in the future.We will be looking at smaller slots and maybe even reduced limits and it is going to be harder to manage the lake.A lot of people wont show up if the slot is to tight and if they start reducing limits it will look like a ghost town up there.On the other side of the coin if the bite gets good you still have to have tight slots to keep from going over the quota.Either way you will see a lot less people around and this isnt going to be good for the area.
Its too bad that we are dealing with these fuel prices that has been keeping people from traveling. Now they won’t come to the lake because of the slot limits……it is going hunt the business around the area.
If slot limits and reduced bag limits are going to keep people off of Mille Lacs during a “hot bite”, then why doesn’t it keep people off of LOTW or Upper Red, or Rainy?
LOTW/Canadian waters is a 4 fish limit with only 1 over 18. People flock to that water every year for the great fishing.
I don’t see this as a problem.
There sure are a lot of griping about how the tight limits are keeping people off the water. I think it is the slow fishing keeping people off the water.
I’ve heard complaints about slow fishing last late summer and slow fishing about walleyes “today” and over the past month. THAT is what is keeping people off the water…..
You could of had a 2 fish, 14-17″ slot last may/june and people would have still flocked to the pond…….because the bite was on fire!!!!!!
Seems to me the walleyes were biting well on URL last summer and they were begging people to come up.I cant imagine there is a lot of people up there this winter either.I could be wrong as I havnt been up there.A lot of people showed up to Mille Lacs last year because the bite was hot and you could still keep fish under 20 inches.Cut it back to 14-16 and you wont see near as many even with a hot bite.When the mob shows up a lot of these people are more interested in limits than CPR.LOW doesnt really compare as you can take take more fish but I bet their traffic has also been down some.This is JMO and time will tell.Its only going to take a couple years to find out.
I remember having a discussion a few years back with a novice fisherman.
After explaining to him what had happened to URL and thus why it was closed, at that time, to fishing, he asked me what was going to keep it from happening again after the re-stocking efforts?
My response was that the tax payers / sportsmen of Minnesota were accepting the responsibility of reviving the URL fishery for the long-term availability to Minnesotans/tourists and the prosperity of the sport and area businesses. I insisted that Minnesotans had hopefully learned their lesson with the Red Lake Band, and would make certain that this unfortunate investment would not be jeopordized again by the Red Lake Band.
Not only was I soarly mistaken, but it appears that history is about to repeat itself in another area of our state, even under the watchful eye of the government officials that are supposed to be representing our best interest!
This is a sad state of affairs 
Good luck
cheers
I think Mille Lacs will always have business no matter what the bite is or slot/limit is. The reason is because of the lake’s close proximity to the cities. Mille Lacs is the best lake for multi-species by far in a 75 mile radius around the cities. This lake is not only good for walleyes, but for muskies, bass, northern, and perch. There will be more fisherman willing to fish for muskies, bass, northern, or perch now that the walleye bite is “slow.” What I do think will happen though…is that there will be a lot less people from out of state and people traveling long distances (150+ miles) to fish Mille Lacs with muskie fisherman being an exception. There are a lot of out of state muskie fisherman that fish Mille Lacs. Now…with there being a lot of perch in the lake…not just small ones but nice big fat jumbos…that should be the new advertising plan for Mille Lacs 2008 open water season. If someone can figure out how to catch them (jumbos) all year round, I think that would attract a lot of fisherman. I think perch are better tasteing than walleyes IMO and heck you can keep 20 of them!
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75 mile radius around the cities.
I wish!!!!
It is for me. 
Besides Tuck, you don’t live in the cities! 
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75 mile radius around the cities.
I wish!!!!
Well…I just guessed. I don’t live in the cities, but my brother does and he told me about 75 miles. Would a 90 mile radius be more reasonable? 
Anyways….Mille Lacs is probably the best trophy potential lake in the state and in some cases the nation.
If the bite continues to decline, the tourism will slow down. It won’t completely die off, but there will be businesses that are hurt and some that will fail. I have read many posts about people that are there only to catch fish, not keep them. I can agree with these people that this type of fishing will continue, but those people are in the minority. When people take their fishing vacations, the majority want to keep some fish. If the general feeling is that a tight slot makes this too difficult, people will look elsewhere for the future. My opinion is that our government is more at fault than anyone when these businesses fail. They choose to be spineless when confronted by the Indian bands wanting more. Until they step up to the plate, I believe this area in going downhill fast with only the taxpayers to lose.
Just curious to see who will be making it out for the WI opener this year. 
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