Not trying to derail the other water heater leaking thread. Looking at the age of my water heater and it is time to replace it. Handful of questions. Current water heater is a 40gal natural gas. Is there any reason to look into tankless water heaters or just buy something similar to what I currently have? What is a good brand to buy and does anyone have a recommended installer? My gas company does have some rebates depending on how efficient the unit is.
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Current water heater is a 40gal natural gas. Is there any reason to look into tankless water heaters
I proposed this very question in the last thread. Got nothing but crickets. Hopefully someone with knowledge of tankless versions or brands chimes in here, because mine is 9 years old and I’ll probably be upgrading this year too.
I’ve got a LP tankless and have nothing but good things to say about it. Only downside is it takes a couple seconds longer to get the hot water to the faucet than a tanked heater system because the unit has to fire up before it sends hot water. The upside being unlimited hot water supply and the fact that you aren’t constantly keeping a huge tank of water at temp 24/7/365.
Make sure you buy the right size for the hot water use rate in your home.
Moves from tank on floor to heat exchanger on the wall. Wall space adequate ?
My last tank I bought at HD and their subcontractor installed it fine. Unit is 20 years old and fine (today anyways). I see they now have natural gas, electric, and propane sourced units. In fact, the local installers (via HD) have done very well on carpet and blinds too.
Some residential HVAC installers do water heaters too. If you have used one in the past and had a good experience with them … let them bid. I checked the HVAC company that installed our HVAC unit a few years ago and they do NOT do water heaters.
I was looking into a tankless when I needed to upgrade. From the research I had done at the time if you are on a well you do NOT want a tankless because it will actually use considerably more energy than a tank version because of the cold water coming from the well. I replaced my water heater 4 years ago. Its a power vented Natural Gas AO Smith. They are very highly rated. When it runs you can hardly hear it. It maybe comes on once a day without using hot water and if showers are taken its off within a few minutes.
I looked into tankless about 8 years ago and like CaptainMusky found that they were not recommended for wells.
I replaced my original Bradford White with a nearly identical one and have no complaints.
I was looking into a tankless when I needed to upgrade. From the research I had done at the time if you are on a well you do NOT want a tankless because it will actually use considerably more energy than a tank version because of the cold water coming from the well.
Interesting, I’ve never thought about it like that. Wouldn’t a tank version have to heat the same cold well water that a tankless would? I’d almost think that by introducing very cold well water to the tank with heated water would be less efficient than tankless because each time you add that cold well water, it brings down the whole tank temp and that process is continually repeating itself each time you turn on the tap.
Also, not sure if every system has this but my tankless system is fed by a 20 gallon in-line pre-charged well pressure tank. That tank pulls water from the well and the water sits (at room temp) next to the tankless heater until it is used. So most of the water heated by my tankless system is starting a bit below room temp, not the temp it comes out of the well.
I think the biggest issue with a tankless + well system setup is the fact you have to do a little more maintenance if you have hard water. Some quick google searches seem to have some mixed reviews and almost seems like the “tankless is a bad idea on a well” notion is more and more being called a misconception.
I have a Rannai tankless on well water in northern mn. 16 years and not one problem. It is fed with soften water, and I have never cleaned the heat exchanger.
Rudd has a tankless water heater calculator online.
https://www.ruud.com/products/water-heaters/tankless-water-heaters/energy_calculator/
I did the math so to speak a few times on this but the problem I have is that I know how to install the old school water heaters myself. So every time I’ve had to do one the cost of my labor is free, I have all the tools, etc. The ROI just is not there for me.
But we have friends and they have 3 daughters… Yeah, he loves the tankless water heater for some reason, no idea why but to each his own eh?
But we have friends and they have 3 daughters… Yeah, he loves the tankless water heater for some reason, no idea why but to each his own eh?
My two sons take showers for eons too so I know what he must be going through. Man, they just stand in there and not even wash themselves. I am in and out in 5 minutes.
The ROI just is not there for me.
One item to note, an ROI calc does not quantify certain intangibles, such as what is the value of never running out of hot water. I’ve got a finance background, so I am all about talking in terms of numbers, returns, etc, but there are certain things that are hard to quantify.
I live in the south metro and am on city water. Also have three young kids that in the next 10-15 years are going to be taxing our hot water system!
My two sons take showers for eons too so I know what he must be going through. Man, they just stand in there and not even wash themselves. I am in and out in 5 minutes.
Lol maybe you should address that and shut off the hot water heater after a few minutes. A suddenly cold shower in the winter would get them out a lot quicker.
If your main reason for going tankless is saving money it will never work out. Most expensive water heater, expensive to install and expensive to maintain.
I do not understand the need for endless hot water but I’ve seen the result of it in my home. My two teenage daughters destroyed a bathroom with it. Peeled the paper right off the sheetrock. If they can’t get things done in 10 to 15 minutes in there they are doing things they shouldn’t be doing.
Tankless does not play well with well water for two reasons. The controls in the water heater can have issues with the constant changing water pressure causing fluctuations in water temperature. Your wife will let you know when this happens during her shower. Also there are specs for the quality of water required for a tankless heater. Very often this requires new water treatment equipment.
Well water temp is very close to city water temp. Never seen any issues with a properly sized tankless keeping up with water temp. There is specs here to on water temp and how much hot water a tankless or any other water heater will deliver.
Lol maybe you should address that and shut off the hot water heater after a few minutes. A suddenly cold shower in the winter would get them out a lot quicker.
Ive been tempted, but havent done so yet. My youngest takes a shower the night before, but the middle one is usually taking one when I get up. I wont even flush the toilet with him in there for fear of scalding him.
Here is how I look at it, OP if your hot water is working and no problems, I would replace the heater with the same size brand. Why? Easy install. If you are running out of hot water and need a tall water heater then a 60gal is the way to go. But…They now have these Hybrid water heaters that cost nothing to run.
So what’s everyone’s opinion on a Hybrid heater?
I have 3 friends that are plumbers. All will install a tankless water heater. All don’t recommend one for the reasons Mike posted above.
Couple other things to think about with changing to tankless. Where is it going to vent? They don’t use the same metal vent as older water heaters. And the vent has spacing considerations for where it can be located. Some homes installing the vent costs just as much if not more than the rest of the install.
Gas piping. There are gas very common gas meters and systems that are not designed for a properly sized tankless. They can be updated but just adds more to the bill.
Here is how I look at it, OP if your hot water is working and no problems, I would replace the heater with the same size brand. Why? Easy install. If you are running out of hot water and need a tall water heater then a 60gal is the way to go. But…They now have these Hybrid water heaters that cost nothing to run.
So what’s everyone’s opinion on a Hybrid heater?
I’ve been trying to get caught up to speed on Eletric hybrid water heaters. Have not installed one yet but currently have 2 quotes out on them. Both quotes where over 4k. One was over 5k. Tax incentives and utility rebates are out to push the install of these models. Think between tax credit and rebates you might get 2k back. The one design feature I like on some of them is that you can shut down the heat pump part of the water heater and run it the same as your old school Eletric water heater. I understand electric costs for a hybrid can be half that of a standard eletric. There is maintaince on the Hybrid. No idea how reliable the heat pumps are.
I still talk to every customer about their water heating needs to find what fits best for them. For most a simple change out with something similar to what they had is quick, easy and best up front cost. On the other hand I’ve done more estimates in the last few years with multiple quotes. There are just a lot of options out there now. My personal preference is give me a simple water heater with low to no maintenance costs and I’ll pay the little extra monthly to heat it.
Couple other things to think about with changing to tankless. Where is it going to vent? They don’t use the same metal vent as older water heaters. And the vent has spacing considerations for where it can be located. Some homes installing the vent costs just as much if not more than the rest of the install.
Gas piping. There are gas very common gas meters and systems that are not designed for a properly sized tankless. They can be updated but just adds more to the bill.
I’d be listening to this guy… knows a thing or two i think ;-). Mike, I’m running a 29 year old hot water heater, everything seems to be working fine… do I need to be concerned about anything or just wait until she goes out? Any chance on getting 20+ years out of anything that’s out there now?
You should be shopping for a replacement. That old water heater has nothing left to do but fail. Might as well change it out on your schedule rather then waiting for it to surprise you.
Hate to say you most likely won’t get that long out of a new water heater. Even the one you have was not designed to last that long.
I was watching a youtube video of this 30 year master plumber where he was talking about whether or not you should train your water heater. He said you should never do it. He went on to say that gas water heaters have a much shorter life span like less than 10 years because of the way they are heated and that electric ones since they have multiple elements you can just replace them because the tanks rarely rust out. So if your water heater is that old Im guessing its electric?
I am going off the serial number on mine to figure out the age. From looking online the first two digits in the serial number for my model are the year. 1999 would put it at 24 years old. I think you convinced me to just replace it with something similar since it seems to fit our needs fine. Mike do you install these for a living or on the side?
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great info Mike. Thanks for sharing some knowledge here
So my electric OEM water heater in our 1978 East Bethel well water rambler is due for a replacement?
Outlasted a 1997 furnace and a Maytag washer & dryer.
I do shut off the 110 to the pump (jet pump in the basement) when we go to the lake.
So my electric OEM water heater in our 1978 East Bethel well water rambler is due for a replacement?
Outlasted a 1997 furnace and a Maytag washer & dryer.
I do shut off the 110 to the pump (jet pump in the basement) when we go to the lake.
Yes. The well water is what made that water heater last that long. Minerals in the water coat the inside of the tank and give it an extra layer of protection. Not all the water heaters in the area last that long but I see a few of them. City water just to the south of us many water heaters barely make it 15 years.
Yes. I’m a service plumber and install alot of water heaters. HomeTown Plumbing out of Ham Lake.
Just checked mine…2007. 
When I added on and did all new mechanical room the plumber was all in with tankless water heater, I did my own research and mike is spot on. Just cause you can have endless hot water doesn’t mean it’s necessary. I have have a house of 5 and and have yet to not have hot water with my 50 gallon tanked rheem water heater. Power vented lp gas, there pretty simple and cost nothing use.
So my electric OEM water heater in our 1978 East Bethel well water rambler is due for a replacement?
Outlasted a 1997 furnace and a Maytag washer & dryer.
I do shut off the 110 to the pump (jet pump in the basement) when we go to the lake.
East Bethel water is the best. Mines a 1997 model. Gas.
Besides the fact that Mike says they are a no go for well water, I’d have to believe in reincarnation for both me and the water heater to come close to breaking even with a tankless heater.
The only gas appliances I have are the furnace and water heater. I pay more for “Customer Charges” and other bs fees on the gas bill in summer than I do for the gas. With no furnace use in the summer, the actual gas costs about $6 a month to run the water heater – and that’s a full time pilot light, chimney vent style.
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