Want to know why car/truck repairs are expensive?

It’s a scam our reputable bodyshops use to gain profits at our expense. Yep! Your reading this bodyshop owners your about to be exposed.
I fell into something that is enlightening.

technology !!!

Well, if you are in a business, you are trying to make money. Costs of materials and labor keep going up. Think of all the middle men getting their piece of the pie too.

I bet they are real worried. Lol. My woman runs a body shop, I know lots of ins and outs of the business. Body techs, pdr, mechanics do not and won’t work for cheap. Then to top that the shop needs a profit as well. That’s why labor rates are high. Don’t like it. Try to do it your self. You realize pdr guys alone are subbed in and travel, who pays for that ? They don’t sit at one shop and hope for a hail storm they chase storms.

I just paid O’Reilly Auto Parts in Forest Lake $80 for a set of RainEx windshield wipers. It seems crazy but even if I sold the truck and rode a horse I have the cost of feed & shoveling poop to contend with. It is what it is. You will drive yourself crazy worrying about what people charge. Get the quote and either do it or not but don’t obsess about it.

1hl&sinker wrote:

It’s a scam our reputable bodyshops use to gain profits at our expense. Yep! Your reading this bodyshop owners your about to be exposed.
I fell into something that is enlightening.

If you were scammed then, tell us exactly what “I fell into something that is enlightening.” is all about, with verifiable facts!

Just out of curiosity sinker what do you do for a living?

chuck100 wrote:

Just out of curiosity sinker what do you do for a living?

I think he is a truckdriver.

I can only speak to 45 years that I owned a body shop. The body shop business and rates are completely dictated by the insurance industry. I never cut corners or fudged billing. But a lot did. Body shops rates are hovering around $60 per hour. We could raise our rates, but the insured would have to pay the difference. Insurance companies pay $x per hour in your area. Not to mention reinterpret industry standard estimating programs to give themselves discounts. On a very good day you may break even on materials if you were very careful. Forget mark up. When I needed to subcontract to a mechanic it was $120 per hour. The insurance companies often reimbursed me $60 or $80. I had the best front-end shop in town do my front-end alignments. Only to have the insurance company use a coupon price in the newspaper to establish what they would pay. I’m in the process of having electrician at my house. He is $125. Good friend I graduated with worked building farm equipment. Last year he worked he made $180,000 and worked 8 months with shutdowns vacations etc.. I never saw 50% of that, with $100s of thousands invested. Averaged over 60 hours a week. Along with all the liability of working with airbags, suspension, employees etc. I’ve known most shop owners in town over that time, most reached retirement age before me, as I started at 17. The majority of the shops have just closed. The owners could not find buyers to take over. Last few years I worked the average age for a body man was mid 50’s. Very few new people coming in. The last 20 years I encouraged most young people I liked to do about anything else. Town I live in had 6 body shops 20 years ago. Now one, and the owner is over 65. I was fortunate to also start real estate investing about the same time I opened my shop. Or I would probably worked till they wheeled me out.
Just a little insight to the PDR business. When I quit 5 years ago. There were dozens of PDR techs in town. It is truly an art. A very small percentage can take a $80,000 car with hail damage and make it acceptable to the owner. They are very very well compensated for that. My guy was the best I’ve seen since PDR started; he had an elite group of storm chasers he called in for storms. My guess he made over a quarter million a few years. But met very few with his abilities. Also know what ever he charged the insurance companies. They saved over %50 compared to conventional repair.

$70 an hour is expensive? look at all the the other trades out there $100 plus an hour. If you have full coverage all your paying is your deductible so a 20k deer hit cost you 1k or less. Yes you have insurance premiums but no different than home insurance or how people buy a car and once paid off buy a different car so always have a car payment. Storm chasing PRR guys do make bank but they are away from home for months at a time, some will fly home for the weekend occasionally. While some even travel overseas. There is a huge shortage of body guys so any of you who think it’s so easy should have no issue finding a job in the field. I have been a body tech for 20yrs and can’t wait to get out of it.

Another thing about PDR. We had hail last spring the guy we had was subcontracted by our normal PDR guy and from out of state. He was there from June-December and only went home 3 times (he was single no kids) like said it is an art but the boss showed me one check he wrote for PDR for one months worth of jobs and it was 100k.

chuck100 wrote:

Just out of curiosity sinker what do you do for a living?

he must work for a insurance company lol

Still pretty interested in this scam lol, if you have it and they scammed you please let us know.

I work at a local dealership, and people all the time freak out when I quote them the price. Then they freak out even more when I tell them the cost of labor.

I’m sorry. But I do enjoy a fat paycheck so I can buy more musky gear. And we all know that stuff ain’t cheap.

At the time of my retirement 3 years ago my shop rate was $75 per hour. The body shop in town was charging $89 an hour. We did the alignments, tire mount and balance, and AC recharging. The bodyshop owner needed a separate invoice on every job on every car. He was reimbursed only what we charged him from the insurance companies. No mark up allowed on any item sublet.
If everyone was in business or worked retail once a lot of bitching would go away. JMO

I know he doesn’t like people that live in $800K homes and drive 60 to 80K pickups.

Never done body work but man knowing how to work on cars saves a ton of money. Its like having a second job. Dont get me wrong paying those guys is always worth it to have the confidence someone did it that knows what they are doing.

Cmon sinker were waiting to be enlightened.

The only reason it’s expensive is that you were not interested or thought you were too good to learn that trade. The mechanics wans a house and boat as well.thats how society works, you pay for convenience plain and simple!

Yes I do , please enlighten me

I would really like to be enlightened. It’s been a few days. Please let us in on your secret

When I had my shop. I did subcontract work for boat dealers. Subcontract and warranty work for RV dealer. Their basic formula was marking my invoice up %100 to their customer. Labor and materials. If you think a body shop is expensive! Deer got my new F150 in Sept. Front bumper was almost $1000.00. My best memory, they were under $300 5 years ago. About the same with the grille.
You don’t think the guy responsible for the safe repair of your vehicle {suspension, airbags etc.} should charge $70 per hour. But don’t question the guy responsible for getting your morning dump from the toilet to the street is $125?

This is why drunkposting is never a good idea!

stevenoak wrote:

I can only speak to 45 years that I owned a body shop. The body shop business and rates are completely dictated by the insurance industry. I never cut corners or fudged billing. But a lot did. Body shops rates are hovering around $60 per hour. We could raise our rates, but the insured would have to pay the difference. Insurance companies pay $x per hour in your area. Not to mention reinterpret industry standard estimating programs to give themselves discounts. On a very good day you may break even on materials if you were very careful. Forget mark up. When I needed to subcontract to a mechanic it was $120 per hour. The insurance companies often reimbursed me $60 or $80. I had the best front-end shop in town do my front-end alignments. Only to have the insurance company use a coupon price in the newspaper to establish what they would pay. I’m in the process of having electrician at my house. He is $125. Good friend I graduated with worked building farm equipment. Last year he worked he made $180,000 and worked 8 months with shutdowns vacations etc.. I never saw 50% of that, with $100s of thousands invested. Averaged over 60 hours a week. Along with all the liability of working with airbags, suspension, employees etc. I’ve known most shop owners in town over that time, most reached retirement age before me, as I started at 17. The majority of the shops have just closed. The owners could not find buyers to take over. Last few years I worked the average age for a body man was mid 50’s. Very few new people coming in. The last 20 years I encouraged most young people I liked to do about anything else. Town I live in had 6 body shops 20 years ago. Now one, and the owner is over 65. I was fortunate to also start real estate investing about the same time I opened my shop. Or I would probably worked till they wheeled me out.
Just a little insight to the PDR business. When I quit 5 years ago. There were dozens of PDR techs in town. It is truly an art. A very small percentage can take a $80,000 car with hail damage and make it acceptable to the owner. They are very very well compensated for that. My guy was the best I’ve seen since PDR started; he had an elite group of storm chasers he called in for storms. My guess he made over a quarter million a few years. But met very few with his abilities. Also know what ever he charged the insurance companies. They saved over %50 compared to conventional repair.

stevenoak wrote:

I can only speak to 45 years that I owned a body shop. The body shop business and rates are completely dictated by the insurance industry. I never cut corners or fudged billing. But a lot did. Body shops rates are hovering around $60 per hour. We could raise our rates, but the insured would have to pay the difference. Insurance companies pay $x per hour in your area. Not to mention reinterpret industry standard estimating programs to give themselves discounts. On a very good day you may break even on materials if you were very careful. Forget mark up. When I needed to subcontract to a mechanic it was $120 per hour. The insurance companies often reimbursed me $60 or $80. I had the best front-end shop in town do my front-end alignments. Only to have the insurance company use a coupon price in the newspaper to establish what they would pay. I’m in the process of having electrician at my house. He is $125. Good friend I graduated with worked building farm equipment. Last year he worked he made $180,000 and worked 8 months with shutdowns vacations etc.. I never saw 50% of that, with $100s of thousands invested. Averaged over 60 hours a week. Along with all the liability of working with airbags, suspension, employees etc. I’ve known most shop owners in town over that time, most reached retirement age before me, as I started at 17. The majority of the shops have just closed. The owners could not find buyers to take over. Last few years I worked the average age for a body man was mid 50’s. Very few new people coming in. The last 20 years I encouraged most young people I liked to do about anything else. Town I live in had 6 body shops 20 years ago. Now one, and the owner is over 65. I was fortunate to also start real estate investing about the same time I opened my shop. Or I would probably worked till they wheeled me out.
Just a little insight to the PDR business. When I quit 5 years ago. There were dozens of PDR techs in town. It is truly an art. A very small percentage can take a $80,000 car with hail damage and make it acceptable to the owner. They are very very well compensated for that. My guy was the best I’ve seen since PDR started; he had an elite group of storm chasers he called in for storms. My guess he made over a quarter million a few years. But met very few with his abilities. Also know what ever he charged the insurance companies. They saved over %50 compared to conventional repair.

stevenoak wrote:

I can only speak to 45 years that I owned a body shop. The body shop business and rates are completely dictated by the insurance industry. I never cut corners or fudged billing. But a lot did. Body shops rates are hovering around $60 per hour. We could raise our rates, but the insured would have to pay the difference. Insurance companies pay $x per hour in your area. Not to mention reinterpret industry standard estimating programs to give themselves discounts. On a very good day you may break even on materials if you were very careful. Forget mark up. When I needed to subcontract to a mechanic it was $120 per hour. The insurance companies often reimbursed me $60 or $80. I had the best front-end shop in town do my front-end alignments. Only to have the insurance company use a coupon price in the newspaper to establish what they would pay. I’m in the process of having electrician at my house. He is $125. Good friend I graduated with worked building farm equipment. Last year he worked he made $180,000 and worked 8 months with shutdowns vacations etc.. I never saw 50% of that, with $100s of thousands invested. Averaged over 60 hours a week. Along with all the liability of working with airbags, suspension, employees etc. I’ve known most shop owners in town over that time, most reached retirement age before me, as I started at 17. The majority of the shops have just closed. The owners could not find buyers to take over. Last few years I worked the average age for a body man was mid 50’s. Very few new people coming in. The last 20 years I encouraged most young people I liked to do about anything else. Town I live in had 6 body shops 20 years ago. Now one, and the owner is over 65. I was fortunate to also start real estate investing about the same time I opened my shop. Or I would probably worked till they wheeled me out.
Just a little insight to the PDR business. When I quit 5 years ago. There were dozens of PDR techs in town. It is truly an art. A very small percentage can take a $80,000 car with hail damage and make it acceptable to the owner. They are very very well compensated for that. My guy was the best I’ve seen since PDR started; he had an elite group of storm chasers he called in for storms. My guess he made over a quarter million a few years. But met very few with his abilities. Also know what ever he charged the insurance companies. They saved over %50 compared to conventional repair.

stevenoak wrote:

I can only speak to 45 years that I owned a body shop. The body shop business and rates are completely dictated by the insurance industry. I never cut corners or fudged billing. But a lot did. Body shops rates are hovering around $60 per hour. We could raise our rates, but the insured would have to pay the difference. Insurance companies pay $x per hour in your area. Not to mention reinterpret industry standard estimating programs to give themselves discounts. On a very good day you may break even on materials if you were very careful. Forget mark up. When I needed to subcontract to a mechanic it was $120 per hour. The insurance companies often reimbursed me $60 or $80. I had the best front-end shop in town do my front-end alignments. Only to have the insurance company use a coupon price in the newspaper to establish what they would pay. I’m in the process of having electrician at my house. He is $125. Good friend I graduated with worked building farm equipment. Last year he worked he made $180,000 and worked 8 months with shutdowns vacations etc.. I never saw 50% of that, with $100s of thousands invested. Averaged over 60 hours a week. Along with all the liability of working with airbags, suspension, employees etc. I’ve known most shop owners in town over that time, most reached retirement age before me, as I started at 17. The majority of the shops have just closed. The owners could not find buyers to take over. Last few years I worked the average age for a body man was mid 50’s. Very few new people coming in. The last 20 years I encouraged most young people I liked to do about anything else. Town I live in had 6 body shops 20 years ago. Now one, and the owner is over 65. I was fortunate to also start real estate investing about the same time I opened my shop. Or I would probably worked till they wheeled me out.
Just a little insight to the PDR business. When I quit 5 years ago. There were dozens of PDR techs in town. It is truly an art. A very small percentage can take a $80,000 car with hail damage and make it acceptable to the owner. They are very very well compensated for that. My guy was the best I’ve seen since PDR started; he had an elite group of storm chasers he called in for storms. My guess he made over a quarter million a few years. But met very few with his abilities. Also know what ever he charged the insurance companies. They saved over %50 compared to conventional repair.

Amen! Having owned a small business for over 40 years I can attest to everything you wrote.

Not saying that all body shops do this though one would be surprised how many do this.
They will take a vehicle in, heavily damageged and take an general estimate for repair and submit that estimate to the insurance company. Get the OK, then order those parts. Then the nit and gritty starts. After getting those parts and after the work is done and paid for by insurance the parts not used for repair are returned to supplier for full value back to the bodyshop. See it all the time. Who pays for that scam.
Make fun of me all you want. It happens. The semantics of the scam are detailed and we’re explained to me by the suppliers that have to process the returns which inturn get paid for by the manufactures for the returns. Everyone gets paid for the over estimated vehicle. The black whole is these parts are returned are absorbed by the manufacturer. Then passed back to covering their cost by increasing their cost to manufacture parts.
Those in the body repair no how expensive these parts are at their own cost. I see the those prices at retail prices and wholesale that the body shop get everyday. Don’t get me started when a bodyshop orders parts before a claim is ok’d by the insurance companies then deemed as a totalled vehicle. Many bodyshops have contracts with wholesale dealerships to even get better prices on parts with delivery. Boy, they bitch about a restocking fee when they return parts for a totalled vehicle.
Yep it’s a nasty business.
My trade is landscape services and Damm proud of it. This winter I took a job as parts runner for a major dealership, nowhere near the size of Park Chrysler and Jeep though,that does wholesale to supplement my time off in the winter. I get both sides from supplier to the bodyshop.
I’m just a peon when it comes to big business but I’m not stupid may be dumb though when it comes to how the real world of big business operates.
STORM CHASERS was interjected in the subject. Sadley that person doesn’t really know how far his analogy mirrors what I’m saying.
Yep,I know a family that makes millions storm chasing.

THINK ON GRANDER SCALE. How does Amazon deal with sales and returns. Never thought about the supply chain until know. Small guy buys from the next guy up then so on. How many times does a product get handled?. Saw an order that was shipped to Tampa
that I picked up from another dealer. Jimmny then one starts adding Canada and Mexico and overseas. And to think of the scale of bigger markets than twin cities like the east coast and the west coast or Houston.

Youbetcha wrote:

Never done body work but man knowing how to work on cars saves a ton of money. Its like having a second job. Dont get me wrong paying those guys is always worth it to have the confidence someone did it that knows what they are doing.

100% agree. I just had my engine replaced on my 14’ Silverado with 160k miles (Thanks AFM!). Bill was $10k. Just recently noticed my transmission is starting to slip. The quote for a new tranny? $7k. With the cost of new and used trucks I am stuck between and rock and a hard place.

troutbum wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Carter Johnson wrote:</div>
Never done body work but man knowing how to work on cars saves a ton of money. Its like having a second job. Dont get me wrong paying those guys is always worth it to have the confidence someone did it that knows what they are doing.

100% agree. I just had my engine replaced on my 14’ Silverado with 160k miles (Thanks AFM!). Bill was $10k. Just recently noticed my transmission is starting to slip. The quote for a new tranny? $7k. With the cost of new and used trucks I am stuck between and rock and a hard place.

Ditch the gm while your ahead

1hl&sinker wrote:

Not saying that all body shops do this though one would be surprised how many do this.
They will take a vehicle in, heavily damageged and take an general estimate for repair and submit that estimate to the insurance company. Get the OK, then order those parts. Then the nit and gritty starts. After getting those parts and after the work is done and paid for by insurance the parts not used for repair are returned to supplier for full value back to the bodyshop. See it all the time. Who pays for that scam.
Make fun of me all you want. It happens. The semantics of the scam are detailed and we’re explained to me by the suppliers that have to process the returns which inturn get paid for by the manufactures for the returns. Everyone gets paid for the over estimated vehicle. The black whole is these parts are returned are absorbed by the manufacturer. Then passed back to covering their cost by increasing their cost to manufacture parts.
Those in the body repair no how expensive these parts are at their own cost. I see the those prices at retail prices and wholesale that the body shop get everyday. Don’t get me started when a bodyshop orders parts before a claim is ok’d by the insurance companies then deemed as a totalled vehicle. Many bodyshops have contracts with wholesale dealerships to even get better prices on parts with delivery. Boy, they bitch about a restocking fee when they return parts for a totalled vehicle.
Yep it’s a nasty business.
My trade is landscape services and Damm proud of it. This winter I took a job as parts runner for a major dealership, nowhere near the size of Park Chrysler and Jeep though,that does wholesale to supplement my time off in the winter. I get both sides from supplier to the bodyshop.
I’m just a peon when it comes to big business but I’m not stupid may be dumb though when it comes to how the real world of big business operates.
STORM CHASERS was interjected in the subject. Sadley that person doesn’t really know how far his analogy mirrors what I’m saying.
Yep,I know a family that makes millions storm chasing.

If your shop is quoting and billing new parts, then not installing new parts, that’s the scam right now. You will have a statement with everything billed. If you don’t see new parts, then deny the work. Pretty simple and easy. The spendy part on this work is the billed man hours. If a job is 6 hours and the tech does it in 2, guess what hours your paying. 6 not the 2. But it’s also opposite if the 6 hour job goes 9, your still only paying 6.

Bearcat,
What would you recommend looking at? Kbb for my truck is $15k

troutbum wrote:

Bearcat,
What would you recommend looking at? Kbb for my truck is $15k

Not sure what to recommend, I ditched gm a while back and went ram. Very glad and happy with that choice. Not long ago my lady had to have a fancy Tahoe. We have had it about a year and that goes up for sale next week. We are completely ditching the gm products, we are unsure of what to buy for her, but the 4 runner or highlander are looking pretty nice.