Walleyes/Saugers snagged below the jaw.

Jig fishing on the Mississippi river and am catching a number of fish, but some are hooked outside the mouth underneath the jaw. I am drift jigging with a swim drop motion and sometimes when I lift the jig, there is weight and I set the hook and when I land the fish, some are hooked this way and some are in the mouth. Any theories as to what is going on? Are these fish that bit and missed or were inactive and oblivious or just curious and accidently got caught.

Sounds like you are using a blade bait….

I think the theory is that they are trying to wound the bait by pinning it to the bottom. I have this happen on the rainy river in the spring too.

I’ve seen this with smaller fish. I think Biggill’s idea may be true, but I also think at time so many small fish congregate on a tight area that as you dift you jig along it gets under a mess of them and when you go to lift the jigs hangs up an a body part as it travels past them. This is pretty common with jigs being fished as you describe and you don’t need a blade to have this occur.

I’ve always assumed they were chasing the bait into the mud and trying to rut it out and it catches below their jaw.

I would agree with the fish pinning the bait to the bottom. I have seen this jig fishing numerous times as well.

You guys could be right, but I wonder why a fish with teeth that can vacuum prey into its mouth in a split second would bother pinning prey?

mplspug wrote:

You guys could be right, but I wonder why a fish with teeth that can vacuum prey into its mouth in a split second would bother pinning prey?

For their own entertainment… Like a cat with a mouse

Agree with fish pinning bait to bottom

Funny you should say that because I was also going to say that they are playing with it like a cat.

One reason IMHO,is when there is a pod of fish feeding in an area the smaller fish tend to pin/cover/conceal the bait,in order to keep other larger compition in the area from snatching their meal.

mplspug wrote:

You guys could be right, but I wonder why a fish with teeth that can vacuum prey into its mouth in a split second would bother pinning prey?

This is the same question I would have.

huntinforfish wrote:

I would agree with the fish pinning the bait to the bottom. I have seen this jig fishing numerous times as well.

You have seen this? Like on a camera? Has anyone actually seen this? I am not arguing it other than I have never heard of this before.

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mplspug wrote:</div>
You guys could be right, but I wonder why a fish with teeth that can vacuum prey into its mouth in a split second would bother pinning prey?

This is the same question I would have.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>huntinforfish wrote:</div>
I would agree with the fish pinning the bait to the bottom. I have seen this jig fishing numerous times as well.

You have seen this? Like on a camera? Has anyone actually seen this? I am not arguing it other than I have never heard of this before.

I’ve seen it when the fish come to the surface! There probably is a video out there somewhere on the interweb that shows the scenario.

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

You have seen this? Like on a camera? Has anyone actually seen this? I am not arguing it other than I have never heard of this before.

This is one of my theories. Based on how I typically fish I find it unlikely that I would be snagging them inadvertently. Then couple that with the light or nonexistent bite at the end of the fall when my lure hits bottom this is my best guess.

I’ve also had years on the Rainy where my hookup percentage is less than 50% after a bite. Those times I’d get two solid head shakes after getting a solid hookset then gone.

Makes sense in my head. But then again it makes sense to me to play goalie.

Pinning bait to the bottom.i only e have it happen on hard bottom scenarios.a jigging rap is DEADLY when saugs and eyes are doing this!!!

I lot of fish stun their prey before eating it too. This happens a lot when the fish are feeding on large bait balls. So maybe this is why they are doing it.

Actually, maybe they think they are eating something like a crayfish or anything other than a minnow. Maybe they are trying to stun it to stop it from moving making it easier to swallow?

Sure is interesting trying to think of the why.

huntinforfish wrote:

I’ve seen it when the fish come to the surface! There probably is a video out there somewhere on the interweb that shows the scenario.

Well…if you’ve just seen this when the fish came to the surface, you have not really seen it. Have you? I’m not trying to be argumentative here just for the sake of it but I have been studying fish and fish behavior since I was 6 years old. (BTW, what you might think is a dolphin is not really a dolphin). No, that doesn’t qualify me as a fish expert but I still question what might be going on down there?
An experience I had that might be related, when muskie/pike fishing throwing a 6″ perch patterned shallow crankbait at times I would see a handful of similar sized perch chasing the lure all the way back to the boat. Like they were trying to drive the “weird one” out of the village.

biggill wrote:

But then again it makes sense to me to play goalie.

It would only not make sense if you chose not to wear a mask…

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Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

I am not arguing it other than I have never heard of this before.

Ya dont fish enough or haven’t done a very good job studying fish behavior if you’ve never seen or heard this before.

nhamm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:</div>
I am not arguing it other than I have never heard of this before.

Ya dont fish enough or haven’t done a very good job studying fish behavior if you’ve never seen or heard this before.

So then have you seen it? Or just “heard” of it? If you or anyone else has not actually seen it, than any conclusion is merely speculative. As I stated, I’m not arguing and despite my self admitted “student” status I have fished and spent a lifetime studying fish behavior. Do my posts suggest nonsense or stupid questions? I am with at least a minimal amount of confidence that if I offer information, advice, or question something it is with some credibility.

I am still struggling with the scenario of walleyes lying down on top of bait to pin them to the bottom. I invite anyone to somehow prove this.

Saying that…“Ya dont fish enough or haven’t done a very good job studying fish behavior if you’ve never seen or heard this before”…
does not prove that is what is occurring.

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

I am still struggling with the scenario of walleyes lying down on top of bait to pin them to the bottom. I invite anyone to somehow prove this.

On the flip side,

We’re innocent until proven guilty

FishBlood&RiverMud wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:</div>
I am still struggling with the scenario of <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>walleyes lying down on top of bait to pin them to the bottom. I invite anyone to somehow prove this.

On the flip side,

We’re innocent until proven guilty

You’re on to this…snag ’em and drag ’em…

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I’ve never really bought the theory of fish ” pinning ” the bait to the bottom , thus being hooked under the jaw . I’d love to see some underwater footage of this . I think these fish are laying on or near the bottom , facing into the current , boats drifting downstream jigging, on the upstroke they get hooked.

Mike Martine wrote:

I’ve never really bought the theory of fish ” pinning ” the bait to the bottom , thus being hooked under the jaw . I’d love to see some underwater footage of this.

Well then that makes at least 2 of us.

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Mike Martine wrote:</div>
I’ve never really bought the theory of fish ” pinning ” the bait to the bottom , thus being hooked under the jaw . I’d love to see some underwater footage of this.

Well then that makes at least 2 of us.

Subscribing to the “pinning” theory, makes it easier for an angler to tell himself he legally “caught” the walleye rather than “snagged” the walleye. Snagging the walleye would mean the fish would have to be released. There is probably a reason no videos of fish being hooked on the outside of the lower jaw are released to be shown to the public.

Huntindave wrote:

Subscribing to the “pinning” theory, makes it easier for an angler to tell himself he legally “caught” the walleye rather than “snagged” the walleye. Snagging the walleye would mean the fish would have to be released. There is probably a reason no videos of fish being hooked on the outside of the lower jaw are released to be shown to the public.

That’s a pretty broad brush you’re using to paint that picture and just flat out wrong. How many videos exist of walleyes biting any jig in a river anyway?

I very rarely drag jigs down river. My preferred method is pitching. The theory of pinning comes from the fact that it seems to happen frequently on certain days. Not a coincidence that one or two were snagged.

Why always in the bottom jaw?

Why not in the pectoral fins? Why not in the tail? Why not in the belly?

I’ve hooked many a sucker while walleye fishing and very rarely ever in the jaw. Almost always in a fin. So again, why not snag a walleye in a fin?

You’ll never sell me on the snagging a lying walleye theory.

Have you noticed a lot of baitfish on the graph those days? Is it only when fishing over certain bottoms?

What about current? I could see that being a big factor too. If prey is hugging the bottom it would be difficult for a walleye to angle himself in the current to snap it up? But if he could stun it of spook the prey up above the bottom so it could snap it up?

The only times it’s happened to me repeatedly on a particular day is on the rainy river. I’d say gravel or sand bottom. Typically shallower water 4-10’ and typically on a really hot bite.

I’ve had it happen in other situations on different bodies of water, but never enough times to think it was intentional. I bet I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve snagged a walleye elsewhere.

Never had this happen but I haven’t mastered dragging jigs.

But hey if we’re gonna have an IDO throw-down at least it’s about fish!

I have caught 50+ walleyes/saugers this way. First I heard of it was when I was fishing with Denver McKinnon who guides on the river. I’m going to take his word for it considering he has decades of experience down there.

Denver mentions it a bit in this video

Huntindave wrote:

Subscribing to the “pinning” theory, makes it easier for an angler to tell himself he legally “caught” the walleye rather than “snagged” the walleye

Agreed here, especially the years past in the early spring river threads of P4 this would be mentioned quite a bit, not necessarily the pinning theory but lots of fish being hooked under the jaw yet being kept.

Didn’t mean to offend ya Andy but very surprised in your fishing lifetime and on the forums this has never been brought up. Love the discussion.

For me it’s looking at the numbers. How wide of a possible “snag” zone is your lure in at any point in time, how much water is covered any given trip, what kind of perfect conditions do you have to have to snag a fish, especially with jigs. Jiggin raps is a whole nother discussion bc they are sticky freakin everywhere, but a jig has the line angled for the most part, in current most likely fish is facing forward so line may be bowed around it until it hits the pec fins which by then seems line would push the lure out the snagzone, possibly a plastic, minnow causing resistance to have it bounce sideways etc. Alot of variables. BK has some great footage of P4 spring time when fish get absolutely stacked by the dam but even then you draw one 2″ line through the middle of it how many fish come directly into that path, add all the variables it’s hard to believe especially in other conditions such as lakes, or times when fish aren’t stacked up that the fish isn’t one way or another interacting with that bait to get itself hooked as such.