Coast Guard enforcing guide license requirements..

I apologize for the long post to follow

I have a friend that guides on Pool 2, Pool 4 and the St. Croix. The Coast Guard called him last week at home to inform him that they would be enforcing the guide licensing requirements on “federal navigable waters” (I believe that is the correct term).

He is in essence SHUT DOWN.

The CG also dropped off a notice today at a bait store I visited to be used to inform potential guides and guide clients of the requirement enforcement.

This has the potential to seriously impact the income for part time and full time guides as the investment in both time and money is significant to get the proper license.

The CG indicated to my friend that the “Six Pack License” would be what he needed to guide on the MS/St. Croix Rivers:

OUPV/Six-Pack Captain’s License
Get On-Board for USCG Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (Six-Pack/Charterboat Captain) License

What is the OUPV License?

The USCG Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (OUPV/Captain’s) License allows the holder to carry up to six paying passengers on uninspected vessels up to 100 gross tons (about 75-90 feet long). These are usually smaller vessels that normally engage in charter fishing, SCUBA diving, or tour cruises. As such, these vessels are limited to six paying passengers plus crew-hence the term “Six-Pack.” The OUPV License is issued in three forms:
OUPV Inland License: The OUPV Inland license is restricted to operation shoreward of the boundary line, excluding the Great Lakes. This license is valid on uninspected vessels to 100 gross tons.
• This license requires at least 360 days of documented experience in the operation of vessels, with 90 of the 360 days occurring in the last three years. Experience gained prior to 15 years of age may not be counted.
• The OUPV Inland License can be upgraded to an OUPV Near Coastal License once 90 days experience seaward of the boundary line has been achieved.

OUPV Great Lakes & Inland: 360 total with at least 90 days service on the Great Lakes.
OUPV Near Coastal: This license is valid on vessels up to 100 gross tons and out to 100 nautical miles.
• The OUPV Near Coastal License also requires at least 360 days of documented experience in the operation of vessels, 90 of which must be gained seaward of the boundary line. Ninety of the 360 days must be in the last three years. Experience gained prior to the age of 15 will not be counted.
Note: Sea Service experience can be counted on your own vessel. A Sea Service Form and proof of ownership are required. Experience on other people’s vessels can also be counted. In this instance, to verify experience claimed and vessel details, a completed Sea Service Form with the owner’s signature must accompany the application.
Additional Requirements Include:
• Age 18 or over
• Physical, drug test and eye exam
• CPR/First Aid training
• Completion of Mariners School USCG-approved OUPV/Six-Pack online course
No testing at the USCG Regional Exam Centers is necessary. All testing is done at our facilities.

Upon successful completion of the Mariners Learning System online OUPV course, the student studies the materials and takes a proctored exam at one of our Coast Guard approved testing sites. Once the student passes our multiple choice exam, he or she will receive a Mariners School certificate recognized by the United States Coast Guard.

Haven’t you always needed a special license to guide on these waters or am I mistaken?

Pete,

Are you referring to the Coast Guard license or something else?

Thanks,

JDP

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Haven’t you always needed a special license to guide on these waters or am I mistaken?

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Yes you have always needed a license on federal waterways and their tributaries… The Coast Guard has been working on enforcing this for a period of time.
Though it is an expense, there needs to be some sort of accountability when people are receiving compensation for services that could potentially put people in danger.
These courses teach the rules of the river in effort to make it a safer place for every one.

Pete,
yes you are right,
for quite some time, it has been legally required to have a captain’s license on CG naviagatable waters to hire yourself out as a guide.
Look like now CG is going to try and enforce their rules.
Jack

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Haven’t you always needed a special license to guide on these waters or am I mistaken?

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An OUPV (six pack) license has been a requirement for as long as I can remember. A lot of us, Stewart, Fluekiger, Vandemark, etc., went through the classes and testing years ago the first time around the coast guard started pushing on this.

You’ll need to get a TWIC card as well.

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/twic/index.shtm

Throw in the drug testing, physical and all the running around to get it all done and you weed out the less than serious guides in a hurry.

Most of the guys I know that got certified did so through World Wide Marine Training.

http://www.wegivethetest.com/

The instructors did a good job. They had a handle on all the paperwork and gave solid advice about how to deal with all the rest of the hassles.

Not sure about them just starting to enforce this. I have been stopped a couple of times in the last few years on pool 2 and checked. Threw there routine check they also asked if I am guiding. I would assume this is because of the stickers on the side of the boat. I would guess as in most professions those that do not step up to the fence and get the proper licensing, insurance and so forth are not highly looked at in the industry by those that do.

Thanks James (and others) for the great posts!

Nice to know that many guides fulfilled this requirement early on.

Hopefully you are informing your clients/potential clients of these credentials.

And yes, if the CG enforces this fairly aggressively this will cause certain guides to fade away.

I’ll pass the info on to my friend as he is not computer savvy.

JDP

Yep your friend might consider himself lucky for the notification if he was guiding in essence under the table without proper licensing. Lots of requirements to be a guide for hire accepting responsibility for clients in your boat. Here in Borderland we need the Captains 6 pack license, VNP Permit, Twic Card, Captains insurance, Enrollment in a Random Drug test Program, American heart CPR and First Aid certification…. The list seems to keep growing, and the part time guides seem to keep dwindling.

http://www.explorersguidellc.com/

Gary at Explorers is offering an on line class as well as classes in St Paul, MN

James, the TWIC card has now replaced the background check that the Coast Guard conducted when you were licensed.

I was just randomly selected for my drug testing a month or so a go….the results said…

Need more medication.

To tag off of Chris’s post. I was surprised when talking with guides last fall. A number of them told me they use State Farm, American Family or other insurance providers for their guide insurance.

Boy are they in for a shock if they have a claim!

This is why Justin Schneider is such a good fit for our site! True Guide Insurance!

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I was just randomly selected for my drug testing a month or so a go….the results said…

Need more medication.

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You slipped under the radar yet again, eh?!

I wish they’d require this to guide on any waters in the state.

Interesting point Brian!! I know that my State Farm does not offer Captains insurance for my boat. Probably are failing to tell their providers they are a fishing guide. Yep they will be in for a mighty suprise if they need it.

A fellow guide and I took the course with Explorersguide last year had a great learning experience. Great instructer and course .

From Jeff at JNB GUIDE SERVICE.

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I was surprised when talking with guides last fall. A number of them told me they use State Farm, American Family or other insurance providers for their guide insurance.

Boy are they in for a shock if they have a claim!

This is why Justin Schneider is such a good fit for our site! True Guide Insurance!

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Brian stands correct. A normal boat insurance policy will not cover you in the event you are using your vessel for monetary gain.

Most of the larger insurance companies do not offer guide insurance, so be careful! Angler’s Advantage offers a fishing guide endorsement on their policies for a flat rate of $250 per year. This is less than the cost of one guide trip.

For questions about the OUPV licensing and it’s hoops, give Gary a call or email that’s on his website.

http://www.explorersguidellc.com/

He offers this as a free service.

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Brian stands correct. A normal boat insurance policy will not cover you in the event you are using your vessel for monetary gain.

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Is this also the case if you are using your boat in a tournament? Not that I win anyway, but if I did there would be a monetary gain.
DT

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Is this also the case if you are using your boat in a tournament? Not that I win anyway, but if I did there would be a monetary gain.
DT

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Yes that is the case. Since you have the ability to make a monetary gain, this would be considered a vessel that is used commercially, and is not supported under a personal lines policy with most carriers.

Anglers Advantage offers coverage for your boat while fishing tournaments at no extra charge. Quite often we find that our policies are more affordable than the major carriers, and offer better coverages for anglers.

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Quite often we find that our policies are more affordable than the major carriers.

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Does that mean More often you find they are not?
Sorry. Couldnt help myself. Please dont take offense.
Brian! Help!!

James, Brian, Other Guides…

I’m curious if you guys actually felt that you learned anything of practical value for guiding on the Mississippi, St. Croix, etc. by taking these classes and getting the license?

I mean really, most if not all you you have been out on the rivers and lakes your entire life. Did you learn anything that will make you or your customers safer? I understand the need to get it for insurance and liability reasons but did you learn something like, oh let’s say, I shouldn’t drop anchor 50 yard in front of a downstream bound barge? Or maybe you now know what those funny looking green and red barrels are doing floating out on the river.

I wonder if I’m ignorant of things that I would learn by taking these classes.

Thanks,

Boone

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James, Brian, Other Guides…

I’m curious if you guys actually felt that you learned anything of practical value for guiding on the Mississippi, St. Croix, etc. by taking these classes and getting the license?

I mean really, most if not all you you have been out on the rivers and lakes your entire life. Did you learn anything that will make you or your customers safer? I understand the need to get it for insurance and liability reasons but did you learn something like, oh let’s say, I shouldn’t drop anchor 50 yard in front of a downstream bound barge? Or maybe you now know what those funny looking green and red barrels are doing floating out on the river.

I wonder if I’m ignorant of things that I would learn by taking these classes.

Thanks,

Boone

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I can’t say I learned anything that keeps my clients safer after the class than they were before and none of the info learned is terribly applicable to safely navigating or guiding on the Mississippi River. I can now navigate and plot headings using a compass and I can recognize a large vessel towing by the light signature at night along with dozens of other scenarios but there was not one single scrap of information that I didn’t already know that pertained directly to the Mississippi River or info that made me a better, safer guide on the Mississippi River.

There’s one and only one reason to take this class. That’s to comply with the regs in place for those running a vessel for hire. If you took it to increase your knowledge of the river or how to be safer on the river specifically you would be horribly disappointed.

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I can’t say I learned anything that keeps my clients safer after the class than they were before and none of the info learned is terribly applicable to safely navigating or guiding on the Mississippi River. I can now navigate and plot headings using a compass and I can recognize a large vessel towing by the light signature at night along with dozens of other scenarios but there was not one single scrap of information that pertained directly to the Mississippi River or info that made me a better, safer guide on the Mississippi River.

There’s one and only one reason to take this class. That’s to comply with the regs in place for those running a vessel for hire. If you took it to increase your knowledge of the river or how to be safer on the river specifically you would be horribly disappointed.

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That’s what I suspected.

Thanks,

Boone

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There’s one and only one reason to take this class. That’s to comply with the regs in place for those running a vessel for hire. If you took it to increase your knowledge of the river or how to be safer on the river specifically you would be horribly disappointed.

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Ditto! Nothing in this class applied to the river we fish on a daily basis.

Also remember those that guide in Wisconsin, AND WISCONSIN WATERS, must have a State of Wisconsin guide licenes in addition to all the other requirements. I was told even if you are a resident in Minnesota you need a Wisconsin guide license to fish the Wisconsin side of the Mississippi River.

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I was told even if you are a resident in Minnesota you need a Wisconsin guide license to fish the Wisconsin side of the Mississippi River.

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I would assume this applies for the St.Croix river as well?

I run a hunting guide service on Pool since 1996 and was required to get my CG license back in 2002. I was contacted by the USFW that I needed it in order to comply with my USFW special-use permit that they enforce. I was able to get a limted license which only allows me to operate comercially on pool 9. The testing was pretty much the same except I did not need to take the navigation part. I studied on my own and passed it fairly easy. I’m wondering why the USFW is not requiring the fishing guides to obtain the same special-use permit that I’m required to “buy”. This would weed out even more of the fly-by nighters since then the USFW has a list of those legally guiding.

One thing is for sure the CG does not make things easy. I read in another thread about needing a “Transportation Workers identification card”. First I’ve heard of this. How do I get this?

TWIC card is hard to get. Just inconvienient more than anything..

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/twic/index.shtm

TTT