Stringer Photos

Don’t you guys think that maybe the “stringer Photos” are sending the wrong message to other veiwers, including me? Whatever happened to your CPR ideas?
I have to admit I enjoy checking into this Site from time to time, and i am an avid fisherman. But there is no doubt this format has increased fishing pressure at Pool 4.
I do believe everyone has the right to catch and keep fish, but the motives here seem to be line up Guide dates, sell Twister Tails and Videos.
With the closing of areas on other Pools, the non-stop “Scour Hole” debate and honestly, the envy of anglers miles away that are unable to fish here, wouldn’t it be more responsible to actually practice “Catch & Release”?

If you are refering to the guides that show fish here, I assure you they are released, if you are refering to the guides customers I assure you the limit catches are of fish in keeper size range- say 15-19″, as far as scour hole fishing and limit catches well that’s life and each individule must make his own decisions regarding fish he/she keeps and where they fish, honestly if it bugs you so much don’t come here anymore, if you really read about this sight alot you surely understand the guides practice what they preach, teach us alot, and try to make a living doing what they enjoy. Not exploit the fishery, I don’t know what else to say about your comments…..

I think also you must realize that even though some people show a stringer of fish, there are probably a ton more that got released as well. Pictures don’t always tell the entire story.

I can appreciate your passion, however I disagree with you completely. If you’ve spent anytime with the guides who advertise here, you would know they are educating clients daily. I’ve fished with, beside and around these guys for 3 + years now. Believe me, they want the fishery to continue to expand and grow. It’s their lively hood. Please notice most/if not all the fish in the stringer photos are saugers that are 15-19 inches long, not the 20 + inchers that provide a majority of the little ones each spring.

While this site does educate us all on how to be better fisherman, it has also taught me a lot about catch and release. I’ve also made some very good friends on this site, who all will tell you the same thing. Keep the smaller males for eating, let the big girls go. We also don’t keep limits every time we go fishing. Personally 3 fish is all I need for one meal for the wife and I. Just because you see a picture with a limit doesn’t mean everyone is catching limits of fish. Heck, for all I know, these folks may only fish Red Wing one day a year???

A bit of advice, I think you’ll learn a lot more if you come here and ask why rather than point fingers. You’ll likely learn something and maybe have a better understanding of who we are.

Let me try to make a couple points a little clearer.
1- I am not trying to cut down anyone’s Hero’s with my post. I enjoy this site and the way it is managed.
2- I am well aware that this Site is a promotional tool.
I am also aware that the true “Big Boys” in the Fishing Promotion industry know that the consistant use of “Stringer Photos” has an adverse affect on the general public. In particular the guy that loads his boat up with Ringies,Dingies,Dooy’s and Don’ties and and doesn’t come home with limit after limit. As well as the do gooder that believes there is a massacre going on and now has the photos to prove it.
I know the guys have no wrong intentions. I was simply wondering if the are aware of the messages this site has the potential to send.

Good clarification , and I can see where people could get that idea…if all they do is come to this site and look for pictures. HOPEFULLY they are taking the time to read the postings and won’t take perspective that we at the site just consume..consume..consume …If not…what do ya do?

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Let me try to make a couple points a little clearer.
1- I am not trying to cut down anyone’s Hero’s with my post. I enjoy this site and the way it is managed.
2- I am well aware that this Site is a promotional tool.
I am also aware that the true “Big Boys” in the Fishing Promotion industry know that the consistant use of “Stringer Photos” has an adverse affect on the general public. In particular the guy that loads his boat up with Ringies,Dingies,Dooy’s and Don’ties and and doesn’t come home with limit after limit. As well as the do gooder that believes there is a massacre going on and now has the photos to prove it.
I know the guys have no wrong intentions. I was simply wondering if the are aware of the messages this site has the potential to send.

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It’s a noteworthy question………..undeniably. But to repeat just a bit here, the do gooder doesn’t look so good when his story doesn’t match up with his claims. Any REAL TIME research on the goings on of the promoters of this site and their products will find a boat load of info combatting such ill claims. It’s not hard to slight the angle of a story and it’s up to us to start realizing that research is the pudding’s proof, not just the words we read or pictures we see.

As for posting limits of fish……………this is a “where do we draw the line?” issue. It’s legal to catch and keep those numbers of fish, permissable by law. So, just because we know and understand the benefits of catch and release, are we to condemn others for practicing their legal right? It may look like a slaughter but there are people who have an annual fishing trip and that’s it. They go for a limit and that limit defines success or failure. If their trip was a successful quest, they deserve to have their picture posted just the same and not held up as CPR poster children.

Understand, I’m not attacking your question as a point of view or accusing you of doing this, I just think that when it comes down to what we have here, the best thing we can do is promote CPR without condemning others for conducting legal practices. The guides are some of our largest assets on those waters and are VERY good at educating and persuading the CPR issue. In fact, they even have rules to minimize accidental abuse (their own enforced slots).

Touchy issue and complex…………..but I don’t think we’re the bad guys for anything going on here. It still comes down to individual choices and practices. Numbers of boats isn’t the issue……….it’s how many fish are being released in good health. I’d be fine with 100 boats in the backwaters if they’re all putting fish back. Granted, fishing’s never been a popular “community sport”………..but there’s still choices and a LOT of river.

My 2 cents.

I’ve said it before in another post and I’ll say it again here…this Red Wing Dam bite has been going on for years and years. Every year, thousands of anglers have taken advantage of it and you can bet your a## that there have been lots and lots of limit catches taken by people who probably travel quite a distance to get in on the action. Also, if you are a paying client that goes out with these reputable guides and pay a couple hundred bucks for a day of education and fun, you’re certainly entitled to keep a few. I know I have. I also know there have been times that I have been down and caught 40 or 50 fish in a day and only kept 2 for a meal. Again, more than my right.
I don’t feel that publicity on this site will increase angler traffic and/or catch and keep rates.
Again, my 2 cents.

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I’ve said it before in another post and I’ll say it again here…this Red Wing Dam bite has been going on for years and years. Every year, thousands of anglers have taken advantage of it and you can bet your a## that there have been lots and lots of limit catches taken by people who probably travel quite a distance to get in on the action. Also, if you are a paying client that goes out with these reputable guides and pay a couple hundred bucks for a day of education and fun, you’re certainly entitled to keep a few. I know I have. I also know there have been times that I have been down and caught 40 or 50 fish in a day and only kept 2 for a meal. Again, more than my right.
I don’t feel that publicity on this site will increase angler traffic and/or catch and keep rates.
Again, my 2 cents.

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You are right. So lets think back years and years.
Used to be there was no slot limit on Walleye. Now there is a 15″ minimum. Must be because Walleye die very young, right?
Used to be an old man barking at you from the truck at Evert’s. Now there is an Advertiser on this site posting Pics. (And by the way, he’s got ringies too)
Used to be a lot of boats. Now there a Internet Web Site that boasts of hundreds of visitors at a time and millions of hits. Now i am supposed to believe that this will not increase pressure?
I know that times will always change. But i believe that when you are using a natural resoure for profit you should be held to a DIFFERENT standard than “Joe fisherman”. And based on how other “Professional Fisherman” before these guys have set standards, i maintain the “Stringer Photos” are out of line.

after reading the past few post/responses on this thread, the first thing that came to mind was this, If you don’t like what happens on pool 4, think it’s too crowded, or think that this site will eliminate good fishing on pool 4 , the answer is history, never has, can’t say that it wont, but if you don’t like it, come down and fish pools say 5-8, believe me, you can have the river to yourself sometimes, and yes, it is true that there are walleyes and saugers in other places than pool 4, and would you believe, they also bite on doos and ringworms…….and power grubs, and mister twisters, and zoom plastics, and 6″ lizards etc etc etc. Point, do your own thing, and if you dont like what happens on pool 4 dont go or go somewhere else

I think the four guides mentioned are guilty of not telling the whole story. What they leave out is that 6 fish were kept for their clients to eat and the other 25 to 50 fish caught were released. Some days at this time of year it could even be as high as 100 fish or more released with 3 or 4 people in the boat fishing. Anyone of us could go fishing right now and catch 6 fish to keep to eat and have our piture taken with them on a stringer. Would we, the average fisherman, be bad people for it? Some seem to think so. Now if it was a stringer of 24 fish [6 fish per fisherman with 4 fisherman] it would still be legel but yes it wouldn’t look so good. I’m not trying to argue or defend people but I am trying to say that we need to be reasonable here. I put 99% of the fish back that I catch but that doesn’t mean everyone has to put all theirs back. And if a boat of people catch 50 to 100 fish and put all but say 6 back, I say great. I do know that ALOT of the people that they guide are from out of state and have spent traveling money, food money, motel money and guide money for a days outting and want a few fish to eat and have their picture taken with a small stringer of fish to show loved ones and friends back home. [for the scrapbook]. Thanks, Bill

I understand your concern Mr. Mad. We have seen abuse over and over again, with over harvesting of certain waters.

That is where the DNR comes into play. That is why we have slot limits of a 15″ minimum, because the increase in pressure. The same applies for deer harvesting. It is controlled and monitored and works very well. In case you are unaware, there are several DNR staff, taking surveys along the river. There is reason for this……..montoring.

Let me give you a little secret………
These guides are good…….flat out, very good. You and I, being that average angler, don’t always have the success that they do. It may be very difficult for you or I to go down there at times and catch a limit. That is where there advertising comes in………They use their talents to collect business.

The point boils down to this……..If 6 fish are too many, then we wouldn’t be allowed 6 fish. However, the average angler doesn’t get his 6 fish on every outing. The DNR is aware of that and it works very well. Examples are LOTW and Mille Lacs. Two superior fisheries that produce trophy after trophy and has the grandest of fishing pressure. It is loaded with walleyes and people catch their limits. LOTW even has commercial harvesting byt he local tribes, however the fishery, under management survives.

Yes, Catch-n-release is the ticket. However, you need to understand what is meant by the theory and what the proper harvesting consist of. These guides, who you are challenging, are doing more for the fishery than what the DNR asks for. These guys throw back the big ones, and keep eaters. The DNR just wants you to throw back the fish under 15″. So, if these guys were hungry harvesters, they would be knifing all those big pigs from 25 to 30 inches and giving their clients all the food they want. You will notice that there is only 6 fish on the stringer. Did you happen to notice not more (Looks like the guides are throwing their fish back!!!!) Why, they have the right to keep them and give them to their clients……..

Guides are unique individuals, who are very protective of their waters. Yes, they are selling a product through advertising, that is why we get the info for free on this website.

Hopefully someday James will be able to live like the rest of us. Right now he lives in an apartment, not a house. He drives an older truck not a decent one. Right now what he makes goes mostly for this site. It cost thousands of dollars to run and maintain this site. It now cost more in one day what it use to cost per month to run this site as its gotten so big. Besides guiding to make a living and try pay bills, he has to spend another 40 hours or more a week doing maintence and improvements on this site. Hopefully maybe he can some day make enough money guiding and sell enough products that he can pay for all this for us to enjoy and be able to live in a house and drive a better vehicle and fish from a boat that doesn’t have as much use on. Nobody seems to understand that this site just didn’t happen, and that its not free to James. He pays for this with both his money and his life as it consumes both. And he doesn’t charge anyone for this site and the info and companionship it gives all of us. Its all free to us. So maybe we all need to thank him instead of knock him. Maybe we all, who get info, who enjoy this site, should send him some money to help him keep this site going as we are the ones who benefit the most from this site. Sorry about being so long and maybe alittle frank here. But he does give us his income and life to keep this going for us to benefit and learn from and enjoy. And we complain if he shows a few fish or sell a few products to have money to keep this sight going.

Thanks, Bill

Very well said Bill!

Heres another point totally meant without agression! If all those stringers of fish taken every year, its every year, then if its doing damage then how come theres so many fish being caught AND RELEASED!. THE ones that your seeing are eating sized that the guides and customers are taking home that haven’t reached reproductive size yet. MOST of the big ones are returned and have been returned in the past or there just wouldn’t be this kind of fishery now because there would have had to been this abuse in the past. I know, i’ve hired a guide on pool 5 which is of little diffrence and one of the first things we were told was catch and release the bigger ones to keep good spawn in these pools. Take the pictures and then release them and keep the eating size which we did. THE people on the pools 2 through 6 are very conservation minded to keep fish numbers up where everybody can enjoy themselves and alot of people do this and they realize its abusing this resource if they don’t. THERES absolutely nothing wrong with keeping the smaller males and just a [FEW] SMALLER FEMALES to keep population up and enjoyable. We’ve sorted many fish to keep things right in those pools. Come and fish these pools but take some pictures, keep one or two bigger males but release the rest and keep the eating size for your table. This is why fishings so good here, it hasen’t just happened this way, its because of alot of years in the past with the right prethought thats produced this resource and its enjoyable fishing now. With these practices now just think about what its going to be like in a few more years.

I second that idea Bill, A 20 here and there would help reward the ones who keep this site running.

Well said, Bill. While I haven’t met many of the people on this site personally, I really enjoy coming here. I feel that I have learned things that have definitely made me a better fisherman, and it hasn’t cost me a dime. I understand the amount of work that goes into something like this, and I really appreciate the fact that it is here for us to use. And I really think that those people who come here and complain about the people who run and contribute to the site, offering their vast knowledge to anyone who asks, and asking nothing in return……well, those people ought to not bother to come at all.

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Don’t you guys think that maybe the “stringer Photos” are sending the wrong message to other veiwers, including me? Whatever happened to your CPR ideas?
I have to admit I enjoy checking into this Site from time to time, and i am an avid fisherman. But there is no doubt this format has increased fishing pressure at Pool 4.
I do believe everyone has the right to catch and keep fish, but the motives here seem to be line up Guide dates, sell Twister Tails and Videos.
With the closing of areas on other Pools, the non-stop “Scour Hole” debate and honestly, the envy of anglers miles away that are unable to fish here, wouldn’t it be more responsible to actually practice “Catch & Release”?

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MadAsHell,
Think about this for a second, why do you think there is a year round open season pool 4? The DNR has spoke at Walleye Searchers meetings several times over the past years and they have told us more than once that even with all the pressure on pool 4 there has been no adverse effects on the fishery, period!

Lastly do you know or have you ever fished with any of these guides that you are bashing? If not do yourself a favor and hire one of them for a day and you will see that you are way off base here and that they do practice what they preach when it comes to CRP.

Hey MadasHell (I like the name by the way, I’m sure it came to you in a blinding flash!)
You talk about professional fishermen and how they do things, look back at an old Infisherman Mag. I mean really look back. Al Linder and the gang used to keep stringer of big, really big fish. What kind of a message did that send??? I think a much more detrimental one that a picture of a few eaters.
If you don’t like promotion or self promotion or whatever you would like to call it, there’s an easy fix….DON’T VISIT THIS SITE, and don’t fish pool 4. It’s a free country and it’s your right!!

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Hey MadasHell (I like the name by the way, I’m sure it came to you in a blinding flash!)
You talk about professional fishermen and how they do things, look back at an old Infisherman Mag. I mean really look back. Al Linder and the gang used to keep stringer of big, really big fish. What kind of a message did that send??? I think a much more detrimental one that a picture of a few eaters.
If you don’t like promotion or self promotion or whatever you would like to call it, there’s an easy fix….DON’T VISIT THIS SITE, and don’t fish pool 4. It’s a free country and it’s your right!!

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Mr. C/E,
I am glad you brought that to my attention. I had a chance to visit with Mr. Linder and his brother Ron at a PWT event when they were still involved. This subject is very important to them as well. You might know that they have been in the forefront of the Catch and Release Movement for close to three decades. They discovered too that those photos have a negative impact on the image of professionals involved with this industry.
You would be hard pressed to find photos of the sort in any respected fishing related magazine today. Why?
Because that is not the impresson true professionals want to convey to the general public. The sight of a bunch of dead or dying Walleyes with a stick or string reamed through there mouths is an image of the very distant past. I hope we have learned from those mistakes.

is it the pictures that bother you “Mad” or the people keeping a limit of eaters???? Do the pics of the released fish bother you also?

Madashell for a guy that just got registered your first four post is starting off the wrong way, your not going to get welcome here that way. Lets drop this subject and get back to fishing reports.

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Don’t you guys think that maybe the “stringer Photos” are sending the wrong message to other veiwers, including me? Whatever happened to your CPR ideas?
I have to admit I enjoy checking into this Site from time to time, and i am an avid fisherman. But there is no doubt this format has increased fishing pressure at Pool 4.
I do believe everyone has the right to catch and keep fish, but the motives here seem to be line up Guide dates, sell Twister Tails and Videos.
With the closing of areas on other Pools, the non-stop “Scour Hole” debate and honestly, the envy of anglers miles away that are unable to fish here, wouldn’t it be more responsible to actually practice “Catch & Release”?

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Interesting story here:

Two days ago, I received an email from Lake-Link. I am a registered member over there, but got so sick of the bickering that I haven’t visited the site in over two years now. Interestingly, the subject of the message was: Clean it up or get booted. Apparently the admin/mods over there realize that constant flamewars and inciteful posters (trolls) have ruined the site for everyone.

Now within two days of receiving that, two posters have started nearly identical threads here on FTR bashing the site owners for the way they advertise their business! Let’s just hope your intentions are good and give the benefit of the doubt when in question.

My feelings on conservation already posted on the other thread, let me spend some time on this one saying:

Thank you James, Dustin, Cast, Crew, and Company for FTR/EFN/IDA/whatever it’s called now. It’s undoubtedly made me a better fisherman and introduced me to countless new friends. Keep fighting the good fight, and don’t ever hesitate to ask for help if you think there’s something I can do.

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is it the pictures that bother you “Mad” or the people keeping a limit of eaters???? Do the pics of the released fish bother you also?

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Thanks for asking Mr. Hooker.
Honestly its just the photos. If you have a valid license you have every right to catch, keep, release and eat fish.

I have had a chance to meet most of the guys who have posted the photos. I can’t say that one of them has been anything other than a Class Act. It has never been my intention to attack them personally.

But there is a HUGE difference between the “average joe” and “Joe Pro”. And because they have promoted themselves(seemingly quite successfully i might add)they have to be aware of how the sporting public could see certain things.

I know they don’t kill everything they catch. But if I were an outsider and looked at the 13 or so pages of Fishing Reports for Pool 4, i might think they were. Nearly every Pool 4 report has a Stringer Photo.

Now if they see the Top guys on the Pool are keeping everything in those Photos, what would they think the average guy is doing? The outsider might find it very difficult to catch 6, let alone believe these guys caught 100 and returned 94.

They have chosen to promote and I wish them the best. I enjoy their posts, buy their Products and will continue to do so. But i have to speak up when I see a practice that does not fall in line with true professionalism.

Interesting post there Gianni. But that’s not why I popped in here…

Hey Bola! Hawaii? I’m just interested….some people say I’m nosy (Mom for one), do you live around here part of the year, then head for the other side of God’s counrty for the winter months?

I would bet that “Bola” means something in the Hawaian language?

Ok, now that I’ve asked you 20 questions which should have been sent via PM….here’s Question 21: Have you ever been to Christmas Island fishing?

Someday I’m going to get there for a week….but then again…I won’t have anything to dream about anymore!

Great to see another new poster, welcome! I think we’ll have to work on your posting though…2 posts since March?!

I was just thinking that you could post some fish from the Hawaian rivers…but the all flow lava don’t they!

Again welcome aboard the board!

Brian

MadAsHell

First of all I would like to welcome you to the site. It’s a great place to share info and meet some great people.
Regarding your post, you seem to be saying that we should be ashamed of ourselves for keeping a few walleyes for the table. I don’t agree with that at all. Any person who fishes responsibly has nothng to be ashamed about. They should be proud of the fact that they are knowledgeable enough to catch these fish and should not have to hide their catch from the public eye.
The guides you have singled out in your post are some of the most environmently aware fisherman in the area. If you knew any of them you would agree.
Lastly, you seem to be saying that the members of this site are more likely to keep fish that they would normally throw back just these guides release picture of their clients bringing stringers of fish home. That is simply absurd. The members of this site are knowledgable and follow their own rules of ethics.
I commend you on being passionate enough about our fisheries to speak out against what you perceive to be a wrongdoing but in this case I think you are seeing a clouded picture.

Gator Hunter

Just my 2 cents.
40 years ago I grew up on the greatest walleye fishery at lake Oahe SD. My dad never knew what catch and release was and I remember huge striners of 4 to 7lb walleyes.
Fast forward to today— I give credit to this site, the people that run it, the guides, the dnr, etc. for the education that they have taught us over the past several years on catch and release as I now pratice it ever time I go fishing. Because of them I concentrate on keeping my limit of males between 15 and 18 inchers for eaters and releasing the smaller and bigger as well as the females. A big thanks should go to this site and its staff and imput for educating many people as I’m sure theirs more than just me now praticing catch and release. I personally don’t mind seeing a stringer of eaters. If the miss. was being over fished I personally beleive the dnr would step in with slot limits and ect. as they have in other parts of the country and I don’t see that happening for a long,long time if ever on pool 4. To the staff of this site—THANKS AND KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK

Opps! Sorry MaH! I missed that you are new too!
As Mr GH stated above Welcome! This site has a wealth of information if you choose to use it.

I hope to see your posts (and fish picts) in other forums too!

Im not seeing the down side to those stringer photos either. To me it seems like a perfect photo for catch and release that shows a responsable quality and quanity of fish that is being kept. Now if these photos where of larger fish or of more fish it might be a different story. Throw in that with most of these photos there are comments of many more and larger fish being caught and released. Not sure if I see the harm in these photos.
One other item from these posts I do not agree with is the comments about leaving this web site due to someones opions. It is good to see opposing view points and being able to openly discuss them here with out attacking people or there ideas. It is called conversasion(spelling). Sometimes I think this is a practice that has been long lost for alot of people.
Welcome aboard Madashell. Hopefully we can change your handle to something more cheerful someday.

Just about everyone has stated my ideas on this site ,so I won’t’ but thanks to Bill Caldwell for pointing out that James is paying for this site I guess we just assume this stuff is free,I have met some great friends here and learned a lot of new methods that have worked for me. I have been able to visit pool 4 three times this year and everyone I meet couldn’t be more helpful,especially Steve at Everets,so James my $50.00 check is on its way to you to help in a small way to keep this great site Thanks!!!!