Plastics vs. live bait

WALLEYE QUESTION:

When do you choose using plastics vs. live bait. What I’m referring to is using the ringworms or super-doos over shinners and a plain jig.

I’m heading to fish the river this weekend and I’ve heard rumors that plastics will pull in bigger fish that a plain jig and minnow. Is there any truth to this??? Normally I wouldn’t give that theory the time of day, but this is river fishing!!!

I hear alot about some of the staff using plastics and since I’m a bit new to the river, I’m interested in your opinions as to why, when, where, how.

Any opinions???

Thanks!!!
Gary

in my opinion plastics will catch bigger fish, but the most important thing is where you are fishing. Belly up to the dam in deep water will normally produce smaller fish with bait or plastics. Rule of thumb i think is to think shallower for bigger eyes and to focus on areas containing baitfish. That is where the plastic shines, it’s more like bass fishing, dont be afraid to go big on the plastic either. The ringworms and doos work, as does many other soft plastics. My personal favorite is a berkely paddle tail, or 4″ power grubs or even 7″ worms. In my opinion, any good plastic presented to a hungry fall walleye will produce.

Spring or fall when its cold to dig a minnow out of your bucket its time to dig out the large plastics. I also like the paddle or thumper tail baits but those ringworms and k tails kick butt also….less fish at times than live bait,but who wants the small ones anyhow…

When do you use plastics?
I would say give them a try on your next trip. It will most likely take a few trips to build your confidence in going with just plastic on your jig over a minnow. There are some days the fish just want a minnow also.
Give this a try next time out. Bring you minnows. I remember a time when I could not leave shore with out them. Pick up a couple of good colors of ringworms or something else. When you find some fish with the minnows try dropping a plastic down to them. Even if they are small fish there is a good chance you will get hit on the plastic. Keep trying this for a few trips and see what happens. Building your confidence in the bait is the first step. Most of my trips now are without any live bait in the boat at all.
As far a good choices of colors try purple/white tail. Electric blue /white tail, ring worms. Purple speck and smoke speck kalin tails. One nice thing about plastcis is that you can always change you color or shape if they dont like it. Your are kinda limited on what you can change on a minnow.

The last few weeks for me have produced eyes on both. One day I will only catch them on plastics and they will seem very aggressive, next day they only want bait. A favorite for me is to thread a jig with a khalin or large twister and rip the tail off, then tip it with a minnow. The added plastic gives you color and allows your jig to be casted easily and fall very slowly. Its tough to beat an orange jighead tipped with a chartruese or lime plastic and a fathead or shiner. Leaving the twister tail on does not produce near as many fish for me. For some reason the tail and the minnow together dont work well together. If you can get a hold of some foxy jig bodies, they can be switched out real fast to allow yourself an excellent color selection.

Gary, Least we don’t forget “hairjigs” as the water cools the subtle action the jigs impart drives fish nuts.They saved the day for me on pool #7 the last weekend of September cold front conditions, winds howling out of the north at around 25-30 mph tucked into the tailwater area found an area with a moderate current and flat adjacent to a steep break. 24 fish two guys in 3 hours had to sort but did keep nine for a meal or two. Largest fish was 20″, water temp was 56 degrees

To be honest Gary, I don’t remember the last time I bought bait when hitting the river. I’ve got such high confidence in the plastics, I don’t have to get my hands wet.

Alright………Good info and much appreciated…..

BUT!
What makes a difference in all the different plastics out there. I’ve heard super-doos, ring worms, fox jigs………on and on and on.

No sales pitch required, but what makes the ring worm so good on the river, or the super doo? I’ve never heard of a “ring worm” (other than giving medical treatment to my dog) until I started fishing the river. What makes these better than the old faithful “mister twister”????

As you can see, I don’t have a lot of confidence in using plastics for walleyes. I’m not saying it doesn’t work, but I am saying I don’t know how to work it….. I’m a live bait or crankbait type of guy.

HELP???

I’m going to pool 3 this weekend and I want to use plastics, however I’m looking for technique tactics.

From what I’ve read above, it basically sounds like you work it the same way you would a minnow and jig???

I dont know exactly why they work well, and I have not used them very much, but if you look at them the design really catches the current. This provides really interest action being vertically jigged and a slow, natural fall when pitched.

Katlin tails are similar to Mister Twisters (or Power Bait) and are effective as well.

Gary, I haven’t used twisters for walleyes on the river since being introduced to ringies and doos. I still carry em, but I haven’t used em.

One method to gain confidence and learn to fish doos is to work(actually not work) them in the following manner:

In a vertical jigging situation, fish one rod with a ringie or your favorite jig and minnow combo. Put a doo on the other rod and drop it to the bottom. Set the rod on boat floor, leaning the top half over the gunnel. Adjust depth so that the doo is two to no more than twelve inches off the bottom. Now just let it SIT ,but keep it within arms reach, cause when it gets hit, it gets HIT .

You’ve got your first rod to keep you busy so your not tempted to jig your dead stick, but keep your eye on it. Many times the best fish bring the line up several inches when they strike, A 6.5 or 7ft rod really helps catch up for a good hook set

Size and presentation have a lot to do with it too. Most of your Mr. Twister plastics are smaller, in the 2—3 inch size whereas the baits widely used by people on this website are 4-5 inches. I used to jig smaller plastics and now most of those baits have been relegated to a storage bin in my basement. If you really want a great educational tool, buy the video James and Dustin put out. It’s well worth the money.

I’ll be out with buckshot and one of his buddies saturday morning on pool 3. We are launching from prescott between 7 and 7:15. We’ll be in his ranger(I’ll be the guy catching all the fish)with yammie motors, he drives a red ford 3/4 ton deeeeezel, peuter colored ranger. Say Hi if your in the area.

Great info and eduction!!!

Thanks!!!

Now I have some confidence for hitting the scene!!!

I’ll drop a note on Monday, letting you know how I did.

Thanks again everyone, this is why I love this website!!!

Much appreciated!

Gary

Why a ringworm and not some other plastics?

Well, to begin with I’d like to add that sometimes just about anything works. Throw out a Triple Garlic Salty Jumbo Swamp-Craw-Bug-Pig-Rat on a light jig and when the fish are going good, they WILL eat it. And on the flip side, ringworms are NOT the “always and all the time” answer some people want to make them. How many fish did Dustin or I report catching on these baits this summer? A: None. And we tried on occassion, believe me. But they do shine pretty darn bright when the water temps fall south of 50 degrees!

I use ringworms alot during those OTHER times when the fish are just not quite willing to eat the kitchen sink. And here’s why…

A ringworm produces alot of movement and action, plus a large profile, at slow speeds / slow sink rates. This is important when water temps bottom out in the cooler months. The actually body of the bait is very thin under all those rings and is VERY responsive to the slightest twitch, bump on the bottom or change or shift in current. I’ve played wth these baits in Vick’s minnow tanks for hours and would suggest you do the same… when a 4″ ringworm taps the side of the tank it coils and rebounds and provides a lot of “ACTION” when fished very slow. Other plastics don’t really work that way. Take a jerk shad… I love fishing them when the fish are aggressive. Give it a hard pop and it shoots off upwards and sinks fast with an erratic action. When the fish are “hot” these are great baits. Not so good when the fish are inactive and looking for “slow and subtle.”

Fishing plastics takes patience and practice, just like anything other technique used by successful fisherman. Just think of all the hours you’ve devoted to being a good vertical jig fisherman. It didn’t come immediately and it didn’t come without some effort. Same with fishing plastics. You may enjoy some initial sucesses right out of the box or you may find yourself in need of some extra time to get it right. For Dustin and I, and some others here on the board, when we hit the water this time of year there’s rarely any live bait on board and anyone that peaks over the gunnel of one of our boats is going to see about 50 lbs of rubber staring back at them from blue rubbermaid totes!

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Alright………Good info and much appreciated…..

BUT!
What makes a difference in all the different plastics out there. I’ve heard super-doos, ring worms, fox jigs………on and on and on.

No sales pitch required, but what makes the ring worm so good on the river, or the super doo? I’ve never heard of a “ring worm” (other than giving medical treatment to my dog) until I started fishing the river. What makes these better than the old faithful “mister twister”????

As you can see, I don’t have a lot of confidence in using plastics for walleyes. I’m not saying it doesn’t work, but I am saying I don’t know how to work it….. I’m a live bait or crankbait type of guy.

HELP???

I’m going to pool 3 this weekend and I want to use plastics, however I’m looking for technique tactics.

From what I’ve read above, it basically sounds like you work it the same way you would a minnow and jig???

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gary:

A couple of things. The great thing about this board is you asked and received almost a dozen replies from guys who have spent time getting this plastic thing down. Blue Fleck said pick up the tape, which I have and I just enjoy the fishing action. By the way the tape is done in the fall situation, so it becomes more useful right now as well. Give the pieces of advice a try and if you are still not feeling the confidence, consider giving one of these great guides a call and have them teach techniques in person as well as some of the conditions to fish them in. As one of the posters stated in another thread, now the conditions are different. Low water, not cold enough, etc. I know I have fished with fireflick twice now in the spring and both times the conditions were so tough, I was impressed he kept the boat on the water, literally!!! But he worked his butt off and showed us things that we can use under the right cirumstances.

One of the things they say about learning to ski or golf is to get a lesson. It will take some of the frustration out of the learning process. Most people won’t consider that option when they are fishing. We can all go out and pick up vertical jigging with bait fairly fast and pick up lots of little sauger, but catching big fish is an ultimate goal. Learning things from guides that are different will help in that ultimate goal.

Taking a vacation to one of those lakes up north? What do they say? Get a guide the first day and learn what works and where it works will make the vacation much better. That piece of advice can work in this situation as well. Good luck, nail a pig, take a picture and let her go!!!

Mark

James;
Thanks for nailing it down with the “ringworm”. I appreciate your info.

Again, I love this website!!!

I’ll let you know how I did on Monday.

Gary

Speaking of plastics….They were hot this morning. We boated a lot of fish today. No pigs, but not one small fish either. Found our fish on the rocks again, in a spot that had not produced for me this fall until today. Shad had all but left the area (must of swam up into the river). Smallies were aggressive this morning also, as were the damn sheephead. Found a new ringie color that I really like…its kind of a red flake color with chartruese tail. Looks a lot like the purple flake w/ chart. tail. Has produced well for me the past few times out. Good luck all.

I AM STILL LEARNING MY SELF, I WAS OUT ON POOL 3 THIS MORN.DID SOME JIGGIN BY PRESSCOT WITH LIVE BAIT ,DID SOME TROLLIN ,AND FISHED WITH PLASTICS. THE ONLY REASON I HAD LIVE BAIT WITH WAS MY FISHIN BUDDY HAS NOT FISHED PLASTICS AT ALL ,UNTILL TO DAY THAT IS . WE GOT 1 10″ FISH AT PRESSCOTT WITH JIG/MINNOW.1 OF THE FISH WE GOT TROLLIN THE OUTHER 2 CAME ON RINGYS.I TOO ALWAYS HAD MINOWS ALL THE TIME,BUT THE MORE I LEARN ABOUT PLASTICS THE NICER THE FISH ARE,THE NUMBERS GO DOWN AT TIMES , BUT TO ME IF I CAN GET NICER FISH IT IS WORTH IT .YOU CAN ALL WAYS GO BACK AND HAVE FUN GETTIN A BUNCH OF SMALLER FISH BEFOR YOU LEAVE.
TWO FISH WERE 17.5 AND ONE WAS 18″,I DID KEEP THESE FOR DINNER ,HAVE NOT SAVED ANY FOR DINN. SINCE MARCH, SO IT WAS TIME

Hey Waybe,

You ole’ dog you! I know you’re fishing some of the same water I am from the info you’ve dropped but I never do quite catch up with you on the water. Today (Saturday) was good in the AM and slower later in the day but we knocked some good ones while they were biting. Nuttin’ super huge but a couple 25’ers + numbers is nothing to sneeze at either. All of our better fish came on k-grubs with the chart. pearl being the hot color on a 3/16 ounce head.

The afternoon bite was much slower for us for some reason and the word from the resort was very poor from those fishing north towards the dam. Lots of long faces….

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Speaking of plastics….They were hot this morning. We boated a lot of fish today. No pigs, but not one small fish either. Found our fish on the rocks again, in a spot that had not produced for me this fall until today. Shad had all but left the area (must of swam up into the river). Smallies were aggressive this morning also, as were the damn sheephead. Found a new ringie color that I really like…its kind of a red flake color with chartruese tail. Looks a lot like the purple flake w/ chart. tail. Has produced well for me the past few times out. Good luck all.

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Ahh yes James, it seems that every time we see each other we are headed the opposite direction. You must of been near the damn for the morning, as myself and Wayne spent the morning on the lake.

JJ

Actually I never got anywhere near the dam until late in the afternoon. You guys still in the Tuffy, right? I need to pull my head out of my bum and pay attention to who’s around me more often… lol

Swing by and say hi if you have a mind to some time.

Well, worked pool 3 by Hastings area on Saturday afternoon. My schedule got messed up and it was my only shot. Pulled in 3 nice fish, plus alot of light bitters that would just suck on the minnow.

Sorry……No fish on the plastic…….Tried it for a while, but I think I need to be in a “hotter” bite, so I can work it to learn techniques.

Thanks again James, for all the info!!!

Gary