question

I saw a guy keep a 7 plus and a 9 plus lbs fish this last weekend. should i have said something? or just bite my lip like i did.

Well I’m assuming your referring to Walleye’s.It’s hard to see them nice fish kept as dinner,or for the wall.They are too big to justify eating and too small for the wall,yet the anger broke no law keeping them if they were caught on the Mississippi.Should you have said something?That depends on your ability to tactfully educate the person versus kicking sand on his toes.I’m the type of person that struggles with the latter.If I feel I can gracefully “sneak” a mention of how nice it would be to have those fish as spawners I would.If I’m in a bad mood I’ll avoid speaking to the person all together.Making someone angry for keeping the fish won’t help in my opinion.

I agree… you can try to communicate your concerns, but need to be carefull in your presentation. Its a challenge, because most guys who keep fish don’t like to be told not to. In the end, he broke no law — nothing else you can do.

Was there any damage to the fish? If I can spot a reason that the fish is likely to perish, I’ll try to find it a purpose (most often, the dinner plate). I kept a 25″ walleye from Gull Lake a couple years back because it got hooked deep by another angler and it ended up getting some pretty nasty gill damage. He was going to put it back when I asked him if he was releasing it? He confirmed he was so I asked if he thought it would live? He wasn’t real confident that it would so I offered to take it off his hands and throw back everything else I caught. No, they’re not as good to eat………no argument. But in a deep fryer, it was good enough, and some eaters lived on to grow bigger yet. In a case where it’s quite certain the fish isn’t going to “be okay”, I try to see that they don’t just rot.

the state of minn has a “one over 24″ limit” on inland waters, don’t know about border waters but in my opinion it should also be in effect, there is talk about going to “one over 20” which is also ok in my opinion

I agree with the one over 20″ rule. In my opinion the only good fish to eat come in the 15″-20″ range anyway.

I would surely support a “one over 20” limit down here in Illinois. I recently spoke with a fisheries biologist employed with the Nuclear Plant in Cordova, Ill. They shock, milk and release fish for a restocking service which they supply for our pools. He said that the successful hatch rate for fertilized eggs is MUCH better for 3-7# fish, with a very noticeable drop in PERCENTAGE of viable fry produced by larger fish. From his perspective, we would do FAR less damage to the fishery by keeping three 8-10# fish than if we kept 3 four pounders. I am not sure how they determined the percentages, but I do know they have been running this program for many years, and have some very valuable experience. I would have a very difficult time with someone keeping 2 large fish on the basis of their selfish lack of concern for the LARGE fish population as much as for the spawning production they provide. I agree they are far too large to eat, yet not big enough for the wall. It would not take a tremendous amount of people doing such things to destroy the large fish population in a given pool. I would have a difficult time explaining to someone that their selfishness knows no bounds without putting it just that way. Just my 2cents.

Rooster

Rivereyes,

Can you enlighten us on the viable fry? Seems to me you explained once that while the higher percentage was in the smaller fish, the amount of fry produced by a big pig would still produce the same number of viable fry……………..or something like that.

300,000 eggs at 75% viability
450,000 eggs at 50% viability
900,000 eggs at 25% viability…………….they all = 225,000 viable fry.
Thus, possibly the supporting data for only allowing 1 over 20″. Anyway, I’m speculating and the example has no factual basis. Just numbers I used to make a point.

Rivereyes? Fishsqzr?

Yup Pup….this is one horsey that wont stay dead no matter how many holes we put in it or how deep we bury it…. is it you and your little furry puppy paws digging it back up to chew on again??

sooooo one more time……(yeah right!)…..
OK.. we have 2 big eyes kept and eaten, how should we feel about that? Considering they were both females and are within the prime spawning size I would say that it was “bad”…. if it was me viewing that situation I could not keep my mouth shut (what situation CAN I keep it shut in??) and I would patiently explain about spawning, and how big females produce lots of eggs…. and how truly big fish bring something special to the equation that cant be overlooked… and thats the ability to survive to large size… this trait should be passed on to their fry and I dont care HOW viable their eggs are… each one has proven rare potential to be a trophy…. how can value be placed on that? lets face it a healthy population needs a healthy balance of fish… you dont want your population to consist mostly of one year class…. what I LOVE about pool 4 is how so many years classes are represented…. there is strength in all size ranges from small to large…. gotta love it…. and there is a really healthy number of mid sized fish in the 17-19” range… the backbone of the spawning population… thats fabulous…..
there has also been plenty of talk in the past about how the actual population of spawning fish is NOT a factor in spawn success… John Pitlo has shown me data that contradicts that theory…… there is support for the theory that population size does INDEED make SOME difference in success……
so how do I feel about size limits? continuous open seasons? bag limits? you guys ask tough questions here…. myself personally I value this resource VERY highly and would favor restrictions that would promote the maintanance of the quality of one of the worlds best fisheries……. in other words I would errr in the way of caution…… I keep fish, sure… but I also have many days where I dont…. Im not in business to feed the world…. I think we all have a respect and love for this resource….. and for sure we all love to catch fish……… one thing about this site is that along with making us all better fisherman it also educates us how to make better decisions regarding what fish to keep, how to keep them, when to keep them….. and even how to be better sportsmen, more considerate……
they say with great power comes great responsibility…. and we have the ability to hurt this fishery….. we need to practice restraint…… I know we all agree on that……

ohhh. and the original question? how many percent viable per size class? geeeez……. Im sure John Pitlo knows off the top of his head.. I tried to locate my chart and did not find it….. I dont think it matters much…. when they get big they are ALL rare fish… and should be treated like the gems they are……. any idea how long it takes to recruit a 10# fish into the population? it dont happen over night… it takes years….. they are very hard to replace

ohhhhh and this usually comes up right about now also……
so heres an excerpt from a post that John Pitlo made LAST year about walleye spawning………..

“spawning is generally triggered by several factors – water temperature and day length are two of the strongest. In Pool 13 – we have collected our first walleye eggs as early as March 31 and as late as April 14. Males arrive at the spawning grounds before the females are ready and stay on the spawning grounds for about 3- 31/2 weeks (this data from radio tagged fish). Females first move to backwater lakes that are warmer than the main channel – then move to main channel borders sites near spawning areas. They actually move onto spawning grounds at night – we have not followed a radio tagged female onto the spawning grounds during the day (It might happend, but we have not seen it). In Pool 13, spawning usually peaks a week on either side of the second week in April (depending on water temperature), and usually coincides with spring high water. On Friday, our water temperture in Pool 13 was 47, today (Monday) it is 55!! Fish are spawning as I post this. Hope we don’t have a cold rain that will cool the water too rapidly. On the average – we collect the first walleye larvae (just hatched fish) around May 5.”

”

Hey! Thanks a lot buddy! I know how much it hurts to grind those gears like that but you do it so well! Tell you what…………I’ll buy my own Pup-A-Roni this month!

I had forgotten about the unlikelihood of reproducing a trophy class fish by the percentage of atrition and gene makeup. I’m persuaded to believe that is the bigger point of this subject. Thanks again, have a nice day, and why don’t you take your Pup for a walk before the weather turns sour?

I had never considered that genetics play into the ‘big fish’ equation (outside of genetically identifiable “strains” of fish), and have never really seen anything before now that supports that either. I’ve always been told that it’s pretty straightforward: an 18″ fish is x years old, a 25″ fish is y years old, etc. As far as ‘potential’ went, I thought it was pretty much luck of the draw – fish that didn’t die lived, and fish that lived grew.

A little googling turned this up:

In reply to:

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Fish genetics: Fish come in different genetic strains, which are subtle variations of the same species. Some strains do better than others in Minnesota waters, so researchers have studied which are best to stock. A study in the Arrowhead Region found that lake trout native to waters where they are stocked survive better than strains from other waters.

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I suppose with all the discussion of genetics going on over at the whitetail scene, it was only a matter of time before people started scratching their heads when discussing trophy fish as well.

hey gillman
just wanted to give my two cents,I agree with almost everyone on here about how important it is to selectivly harvest, but one of the greatest things about fishing is that it can be enjoyed at any level from a kid on the shore to a guy with a $40000 boat. Riveratt said a 7 and 9 plus were to big to eat and to small for the wall, but if the biggest eye you have ever caught was 5 or 6 lb then a 9 plus would be a once in a lifetime to you,and if you had ten kids and was layed off i’m sure you would eat any thing you caught.I’ve learned alot on this site ,both about fishing and conserving the resorces as I,m sure many others have ,but these are our opinions and if people are not breaking the law they are entitled to enjoy the sport as they see fit without being harassed or having our opinions preached to them. my two cents thanks

Just a short note on the reproductive potential of a group of fish. For walleye in Pool 13, the length of the female spawners form a bell-shaped distribution, with smaller (ie 17 inch) 1st time spawners on the left side of the distribution and larger fish (27+ inches) on the right side of the distribution. There are 2 factors that go into this, 1) the size of the fish, and 2) the number of fish in that size range. There are a lot more 18-20 inch fish, but thier body is smaller so the number of eggs they carry is less, and conversely, there are a lot fewer 27-30 inch fish, but the number of eggs they carry is more. On Pool 13, the most productive spanwers are 22.5 inch fish because they have good body size to carry large numbers of eggs and they are present in good numbers. Female walleye in the length range of 20-27 inches produce over 78% of the eggs in Pool 13. In my mind, its not so much the viability of the eggs of an idividual fish – its looking at the which are your best producers – in this case, the 3-7 lbrs, as noted by an earlier poster.

Just a short note on genetics. For years we stocked walleye sack-fry produced at our Spirit Lake Hatchery in our (Iowa) interior rivers with limited success. Then we did a genetic analysis on the fish that were present in these rivers and walleye from Spirit Lake and the Mississippi River, which actually were different. The fish in Iowa interior rivers were of Mississippi River origin – even after years of stocking Spirit Lake fry. We now stock only Mississippi River strain fingerlings in these interior streams and great populations of walleye have resulted. Two things made this happen – the switch to Mississippi strain fish and stocking larger (2-5 inch) fish.

Hey fishsqzr,

I need to spend the day in the boat with you sometime….

Sure – as long as we get to do some fishing and not all talking!!!!

hey John!… thanks for coming to the rescue…. and dont forget we have a day of fishing planned one of these days too!…..

Thanks John

You name the place and the time….

If my schedule will allow, We will fish !!!

i think i’m with evileye on this one. the biggest walleye i’ve ever caught was a hair under 6 pounds. if i ever get the chance to catch a 9+ pound fish, it’s going on the wall . it might be the first of many (hopefully), but it’s still my first. a 9 pounder is a dandy fish at that.

it wouldn’t make since to keep a 7 pounder though . even if you didn’t have a camera and wanted a picture of both of them. there’s no need.

it would be very hard to say anything though. if you do say something, make sure you thought it out very carefully before you go shooting your moth off. no one likes to be told what they can and can’t do.

big_walleye, I’m with you with one over 20″ rule for walleyes, lets take it a step further and make it a true trophy walleye with a release slot of 20″- 28″ with one over. I’ve always figure the best way to deal with a “legal” big fish situation, is to educate people before they catch them. To make a release easier, always have a camera at hand.