Eagles-2 Anglers-0

Took off from work early today. Had to break some ice to get on the river.(pool 16) I was fishing a flat between the rollers and the lock. I pulled,threw and dragged everthing I had in my boat. Nothing,nadda,zip,zero………well you get the point. Just then a pair of Eagles show up. The first one dives in front of the boat.BANG-walleye. The second one followed suit,Bang another walleye. Both legal fish to boot. Needless to say they eat fish and I had to stop at Micky D’s. Oh well…….thats the way the ball bounces…….. Tight Lines and Good Health to all.

hey now,
theres nothing wrong with a good ol’ Big Mac and fries. sure beats cleaning fish outside on the dirve way in temps below zero.

Ah Riv, bet those eagles sized up those walleyes and took only those just under 15″, ya think??

Eagles really are good fishermen, there is a little good news/bad news with Eagles. Bad news, they do NOT do any catch and release fishing. but there is alot of Good News about Eagles and fish: they do not catch Walleyes and Saugers deeper than 30 feet which would surely die bringing them up, they only eat and catch fish when they are hungry so there is no over harvest and keeping fish in the freezer which will never be eaten. So Eagles are great, good fisherman, and not waistful. Jack….

Interesting that you comment with regard to the release mortality of walleye/sauger caught at depths greater than 30 feet. There is very little openly published scientific research complete on the subject. However it did not stop me from inquiring with a DNR Large Lake Specialist. I was forwarded some research findings that do not support a mortality rate you suggest. For these findings among other reasons the regulatory agencies are able to allow catch and release fishing.
I have often ended up with over extended stomachs on fish taken in alot less depth than 30 feet. For years people have said to me “well that is a dead fish” I’m finding out otherwise.
For whatever it is worth. My dad always said “If the shoe fits, wear it”.

Hey Jack,
Fine discourse on the eagles and their use of the resource. However, about a month ago I saw one bald eagle twice practice catch and release fishing in the span of 10 minutes. Of course, he was scared stiff by a larger eagle (I believe a golden, but I’m no expert) dive bombing him as he rose from the water with his catch.
I’m guessing the mortality rate on fish dropped by eagles is relatively high.

I have a paper published by Ontario fisheries that to maximixe survival of released walleyes that they should not be taken from depths exceeding 7.5 Meters…. I think this is around 25 feet…. the study was published in 2001… the study goes on to recomend that further research be done including the following steps….:
1. Determining critical depths for different fish species and various sizes of fish.
2. Analyzing physiological and biochemical parameters of depressurized fish.
3. Documenting post-release mortality involved with artificial gas bladder deflation for various fish speicies (fizzing)
4. Evaluating other techniques for releasing fish back to deep water…..

As far as I know – just pop the air bladder with something small and sharp when it comes out of it’s mouth. Get it back in the water quickly and I’m pretty sure all is well.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong here but that isn’t the “air bladder” sticking out of their mouth’s… it’s their stomach. The stomach is forced out into the mouth by the expanding air baldder. If you poke a hole in it’s stomach, I’m no doctor, or vet in this case, but that fishies toast when the stomach acids start to seep into it’s body cavity.

Anyone have some comments on this? Not sure how the air bladded would get out the mouth through the stomach in the first place…. but will listen to ideas.

For the lesser populus of this forum that still remembers the “old” FTR, does anyone remember the post that mentioned an article, and I forget who it was by, that talked about delayed mortality?

Near as I can remember, it was a very controlled test that tested various walleye sizes, sexes and in various conditions, water temps, and stresses. In this study it mentioned that fish over 30′ deep need to be hoisted to the boat asap and released immediately, without squeezing or puncturing the bladder. The mortality was VERY high from this stress. In almost every test, the fish swam away but more than half found a place to “rest” and died 5-7 days later. Bigger fish were more apt to die than younger, smaller fish. The same circumstances during the summer were even harder on the fish and over 60% perished. Now, in all conditions tested, it was also stated that putting fish (walleyes) into a livewell would increase the chances of delayed mortality by another 20%, no matter if it was a “still” well or if rocked about by chop or boat motion. So, if summer strain (lake test) could produce over a 60% DM rate from deep fish, livewelling them increases the DM odds to over 80%!!!

We all seem to be very speculative but until we conduct our own tests, how do we know? You catch a fish, free the fish, see the fish “revive” and swim away…………how do you know if it lived or died 5-7 days later?

The deal with Mille Lacs this year…………couldn’t have been completely catch and release DM, but did it contribute? I believe the lack of food and forage had the fish in a very weakened state and it just got to the point that a bunch had to die. But how many of them had been further weakened by a tussle with a fisherman?

Don’t worry guys………..I’m not picking on us or the sport we love, or trying to blame the Mille Lacs phenomenan on us, but in the name of preservation, do we really know what becomes of the fish we release?

I don’t have the ability or the time to conduct these tests so I have to lean towards those that can and do. If it’s suggested to this or that, I may not be able to do it every time, or even choose to do it every time. But overall, isn’t worth as much effort as we can justify to take care of the fish in regard to their differing seasonal strains?

Okay, there it is…………..let me have it!

Kid

That study was done by the South Dakota DNR. Not sure where to find it anymore but I remember that much. The SD DNR’s findings were dismal at best.

Guys,
The following is a response to a inquiry I made to the DNR concerning release mortality from deep water.
For what ever it is worth.

Joel,

I was sent your email asking about mortality associated with air
bladder inflation. It’s a good question given its common occurrence.
Overall, hooking mortality for walleye has been shown to range between 1
and 16% depending on such things as water temperature, gear type,
spawning stress, etc. Mortality has been shown to be higher when
retaining fish in livewells before release (6 – 47%). There has only
been one study that directly looked at the effects of gas bladder
inflation on release mortality for sauger. This study was conducted on
the Tennessee River after complaints from anglers that sauger were dying
due to overextended gas bladders. The study found about 4% mortality
on released saugers regardless of whether or not their gas bladder was
overinflated. They concluded that gas bladder inflation was not a
serious problem affecting survival of released sauger in the Tennessee
River. They also noted that fish retrieved and released quickly would
stand a better chance of regaining depth and repressurizing.

Although this study showed release mortality was low, there still could
be long-term effects of gas bladder over-inflation. When the gas
bladder inflates it puts extreme pressure on internal organs. How this
effects long-term health and survival is unclear. Also the effects on
reproductive organs and eventual egg development is unknown.

One other thing to note is that what many people believe to be the air
bladder protruding from the throat is most often times the stomach. The
air bladder expands when bringing the fish up and it pushes the stomach
out of the fishes throat.

If you have any more questions regarding this issue, please feel free
to contact me directly. Good luck on the water!

John Hoxmeier, Large Lake Specialist
Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
1801 South Oak Street
Lake City, MN 55041
651-345-3365

James and others are correct.. its the stomach being forced out of the mouth…… I found a link that describes fizzing, a technique for puncturing the gas bladder and allowing it to shrink to normal size……. the jury is still out on whether this is an effective technique…. http://www.blacklakeny.com/deflate.html

and here is a link where a bioligist says DONT fiz…..

http://www.walleyesunlimited.com/fishbio/messages/271.html

and here is some FAQ from SD that includes questions about deep water catch and release and the effects of fizzing…

http://www.state.sd.us/gfp/fishing/Info/FAQ.htm

for those who didnt catch it.. I edited my post above and added a few links about fizzing… and deep water release….

here are some more…..

montanna fishing regs

http://www.fwp.state.mt.us/fishing/reggen.asp#Anchor-Catch-and-Release-46919

Ontario catch and release guide

http://www.sportfishingcanada.ca/PDF%20Files/ethics.pdf

http://www.fishwis.com/articles/My%20objective%20of%20this%20article%20is%20to%20educate%20both%20Tournament.pdf

actually apparently the jury is not really out on fizzing… it seem general consensus is DONT DO IT!!…. and fishing at depths greater than 30′ unless you want to keep everything you catch just shouldnt be done…..

Back to the cull-no cull law. Isnt this more evidence that MN should be no cull-at least for eyes??? If a fish is your livewell is more likely to die-you are better off putting a knife to it as opposed to releasing it and replacing it w/ a slightly larger fish.

Somebody please shoot me after this post goes up cause here I go again. I’m not going to preach for or against deep water fishing or culling.
This is a decision I made for myself to adhere to a couple of years ago and I’m very satisfied, perhaps even proud of myself for sticking with it.
I refuse to fish in waters deeper than 25-27ft. for the reasons mentioned above. I also make the decision whether or not to keep a fish before it even gets in the boat. Yes, sometimes I may go home with only one or two fish that day, most times none. I’m happy they’ll be there the next time out.
Like I said, these are just personal restrictions for me, but lately I see more fishermen doing somewhat the same thing.
Ok, I’m done. Bye Bye

Herb, how dare you state your case.LOL. The both of us think the same. I never fish deeper than 25′ on the river, but i`m forced to fish that deep in some lake tourneys on clear lakes. Tourney or not I bring it up slow and it dosent explode out of the mouth.Now I cant tell you if the fish will live or die in 7 days, but they look heathly at the scales!!!! Eagle watching makes going to the river enjoyable even without dropping a line. John Mannerino

That’s what I remember about it too Dustin! The results almost made you want to put your rod on a rack and just get a glass bottom boat or underwater camera for fear of destroying your fishery! The 2 things I remember most were the increases in mortality rate from livewelling and that they felt it did the fish a better service to reel them up as fast as possible and release them as fast as possible. Their study mentioned that it can take over 24 hours to adjust the gas bladder so you can’t reel up a fish slow enough! Get ’em up, get ’em off, let ’em return asap.

Rivereyes, thanks for putting up all those links! I don’t have time to read them all but that’s a great service you’ve given us! Are you learning that from Jon J or did he get it from you?

Herb, well spoken sir! You shouldn’t feel hesitant to say what you said. Very clear and it implies nothing of anyone other than yourself. That stuff is helpful to the readers, like myself, who sometimes want to do something different but aren’t sure what to adopt. Opinions and self-disciplines like the one you’ve described help give us guidelines to formulate our own comfort levels of conservation practices. Thanks for your input, yet one more time!!

Well, this post certainly got off track from the Eagles finding dinner!! LOL

I’m 100% on the same page as Herb. I ask myself “Do I want to eat fish TONIGHT?” and/or “Will I feel like cleaning fish after the day is done?” Almost every time the answer is No! Fish are best eaten fresh, the day they are killed.

Herb, you are not alone.

J.

Well, to further drive this off topic, I can honestly say that I don’t have a problem with people who want to take home fish and freeze them. I know that there is no way I could go fishing whenever I feel like eating fish. I know even better that if that were the case, the liklihood of me always catching enough fish to feed my family on any given outing is pretty low.

Now, to put some perspective on that: I am not a walleye fisherman. I have tried to imitate one on several occasions, and the consensus amongst the judges (‘eyes) was that I did so poorly; and no, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express. Most of what I eat at one time had either wiskers or spots. Both cats and crappies are so prolific that the Iowa DNR fully endorses keeping and eating them for the health of the fishery. As a matter of fact, the position of the Iowa DNR is that the #1 thing that you can do for panfish populations is to keep every last one, regardless of size. I put the kitten-feeders back into the drink, and at some point I reach consensus that there are more fish in the well or on the ice than I want to clean (usually around 20), so I start throwing them back.

In the opinion of most of the people here, imposing a self-limit on panfish makes me “conservation minded” in spite of the science that indicates the exact opposite. Opinions are always welcome, and I don’t know what response Herb has gotten in the past that makes him gunshy about throwing his out here, but in the absense of other opinions the loudest screamer wins. Your opinion holds as much weight as anyone’s, and those who cannot respectfully deal with it and engage in debate of the facts will find themselves in a sorry spot. I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of people on this board enjoy the honesty of our discussions and will not tolerate a troll on this board.

All that said: If there was a right answer, the DNR wouldn’t be conducting studies and we wouldn’t be throwing in our two cents. We would all just do the right thing, and the regs would reinforce that. And another thing: the next time those darned eagles put me on a rant like this, they’d better watch out!

Me too, I think!!??

What was I thinking when I wrote this post? I love a fresh fish dinner. I only havest what I will eat that night or next day. Hey Herb, I do agree with ya’. Tight Lines and Good Health to you all.

RiverRat, is this discussion your fault or mine ?? It has been a good discussion on fishing and catching fish from toooo deep of water. Herb is right ON, it IS a personal choice on where and how we fish. what I really know for sure is, shallower is better, and the deeper one catches fish, then the risk of a surviving release decreases. thanks for each of your good responses. Come on 30 degree temps. Jack.

Here, Here !
I was wondering when you were going to inject.
Thanks.

Well thats one thing I love about this forum. It’s wide! I also agree with Herb and yourself. I very rarely fish deeper than 23 ft. of water on the river. Well gotta go.(fishin’). Tight Lines and Good Health to all.

Appears that you were fishing too deep if the eagles were nailing eyes on the surface. Or were they in real shallow.
Just wondering.

actually kind of sounds like a couple of eyes that were victims of deep water catch and release…. they werent making it…. and were sitting just below the surface preparing to be purina eagle chow….. when Ive talked to the deep water catch and cull bunch, one of their favorite answers is that “eagles got to eat too”……. now how can you chastise someone who is only concerned about feeding our national bird?? well… call me a commie… but I can do it….. since if they really wanted to feed the eagles they could choose a better resource…..

Commie

Well Chappy, I was fishing a flat that was 9 to 12 ft deep. The flat has a duned bottom. The flat is flanked on both sides by deep water, the rollers on one side and the lock on the other. I honestly couldn’t tell you if the fish were healthy or dying. Well Tight lines and Good Health to you all.

Well after being away so long, its nice to see so many familiar names and faces are at it on the FTR!!!

Hoxmeier’s return email to eyesforever was something that I was going to mention. I seemed to remember that the Tennessee River study was reported in In-Fisherman somewhere between Jan. and May last year. While it gave me some comfort to know that sauger mortality MIGHT not be affected, walleye were not a part of the study. Gianni is right that for a lot of us that don’t get to the river enough to pick up on patterns, a limit of fish is not happening. Hey, I even hired a guide last spring and while he did a great job, the cold windy day did not do us any favors in the fish catching department. I also agree that fishing over 30 fow, you best be prepared to eat fish if your catching. In our lakes here in northern WI, they talk about catching walleye deeper than 30′ as the place to be fishing in the fall after turnover. I usually wait til the ice comes to catch my walleyes and try to catch big green toothy critters while the water is open!!!

Lastly, after talking to a fisheries tech up here (Minocqua) last week, they just expect some hooking mortality. There are those of us feel bad about the experience of hooking and having to release a fish to die (that does happen based on season closures and incidental hooking) and then there are those that just want to feed the eagles!!!