If someone has good knowledge of how to use line-counter reels I would appreciate all the advise I can get…I have one, but am new to using it…what is the best way to use them and why…what presentation..what line..you know, all that stuff..thanks!! Touch your bottom!
Hi Crankybait…
Well, first of all, that’s great you got some linecounters! They are an awesome thing to have to aid in trolling more effectively! There are several different applications for linecounters. My most common application for linecounters is trolling with monofilament, in which case I have my linecounters spooled up with Berkley 10lb Trilene XT. Except for when trolling in rivers, I then have the Precision Trolling book, by Holt, Irwin, and Romanack, in hand. The great thing about this book is that a person is able to open the book to the crankbait they are using, and then based on a speed determined in the book, know exactly how much line to let it out in order to have a lure running at a certain depth. Since the book’s data is based on Berkley 10lb mono XT and since I like that line, that is why I spooled up with it for my mono trolling. Anyway, I’ll simply spool the reel up completely with that line. Then, just click it to zero before letting out the line. Once the line is out at the distance I like, I then set the clicker on (on the linecounter) and tighten the drag enough but not too much…that way when a fish hits (including if trolling with Off Shore planer boards), if I happen to be looking away at a different rod or at a boat coming or anything, I can listen for the slight click and immediately my head turns toward that rod for me to check it. As soon as I get a fish on, I have learned to keep track of two numbers. One is, as soon as I pick up the rod and before reeling, I look at the number on the line counter, then if there is a board on, I also pay attention to the number on the linecounter at the point of taking the board off. If I’m catching fish with this pattern, these are numbers I want to pay attention to and perhaps duplicate with my other rods if my other setups aren’t working.
When I was on Erie last August, in the area I was fishing I needed to use 30lb fireline to get the line down a lot faster without needing to let as much line as I would have had it been mono line. Around here I may use 10lb or 14 lb fireline at times. Another application is using leadcore to get down fast with less line out again. Although nice, you don’t really have to have leadcore on linecounters because you can just count the number of different colors you have out and therefore can spool up leadcore on other reels.
If you don’t have the Precision Trolling book and you are planning to troll areas other than rivers, I would very highly recommend purchasing the book. It takes a huge percentage of guessing out of putting lures in the right places, and greatly increases the effectiveness of trolling crankbaits, hence the title, Precision Trolling!
Good luck!
~Jenn
Jenn’s post hits the nail on the head.
Do yourself a favor and buy a copy of the Precision Trolling book, by Holt, Irwin, and Romanack. You’ll be glad you did.
With all the different makes and models, it takes allot of guess work of putting your crankbait in the fish zone. The book has profiles of most of the common cranks and serves as an excellent starting point.
Like Jenn said, the book is written with dive curves for 10 pound mono, but there is a conversion chart in there if you prefer Fireline or different diameter mono. I like using Fireline because I can usually take most cranks down deeper than with mono and find that I don’t need as much line out.
As Jenn mentioned, check the line counter to see how much line you have out to duplicate this factor. I also glance at my depth finder and check out the speed and depth. (I have a paddle wheel on my transom to monitor the speed.)
A line counter can get pretty heavy if you troll all day. It will have a tendancy to flip upside down (must be my carpal tunnel). I find it less of a strain when trolling with the reel facing down as I do like to pump the rod every now and then.
If you prefer to put it in a rod holder, make sure you have a rod holder that will hold your reel securely and the drag set properly, otherwise if you snag something or get a southbound walleye while trolling north you might experience the “slingshot” effect and watch your investment leave the boat rather quickly.
I mention that because I was trolling last fall with my neighbor and he picked up a nice line counter, rod, several colors of lead core and a nice crankbait to boot. All I caught that day was a cold.
Good Luck
Darn good advice so far…
We had this good thread a bit back on line counters. I’d suggest reading through this one.
Hey guys..I appreciate the advise..what thou are the reasons I am using a line counter v.s. lead-line. Maybe you could all tell me why it seems lead-line is getting less used on the river. also, I seem to have trouble getting my shad raps to go down using fire-line..I mean like 200′(when using a line-counter reel w/ fireline) it seems and it still comes popping up to the surface…do people use these for anything other than pulling cranks? Thanks again guys! Cranky
Popping to the surface? Bad deal there…. but it likely has nothing to do with the line you’re using. A couple of questions…
How are you attaching your plug to the fireline? Tying direct? Hardware?
Are you “tuning” your cranks to run correctly at the side of the boat to ensure the dive right?
I’ve never had a properly running crank pop to the surface on any amount of line… or any line type. Unless the plug was fouled with debris or improperly tuned.
Give us a bit more info and I’m sure we can diagnose the problem.
James could you tell us more about tuning our crankbaits to make them run right. This would help me and others who have never tuned them before. I have one that wants to always run to the right. Or is there a link we could read up on this. Thanks James
Lifes to short to fish with dead minnows Jim
I know they are tuned correctly..because they run just fine with my lead line or testing them along side the boat in the current. I have a very long rod, because it was initially bought to run a second rod out the same side of the boat as my short, lead-line rod. Could that be causing anything? I tie directly to the plug because I like the action I get as opposed to other choices. I too have not experienced this problem normally…it seems like I have to get so much line out to find bottom…was just wondering why? thanks again all oh yeah, and if someone could tell me why again I care about the line-counter..you know what are the advantages as opposed to lead-line. Thanks!
crankybait….
what size shad raps are you using…and how deep is the water where you are trying to get them to tick bottom? just curious due to the question you had about needing to let so much line out…
jen
also…regarding your question about lead-line vs. wanting a line counter…well i think you are asking about why want a line counter if you’re using lead core?????? actually i don’t care about my line counter that much if i am holding the rod (with mono or fireline) and trolling in a river where i want to tick bottom. i can feel the bottom and don’t need to pay that much attention to the number on the reel. that’s also true from watching the rod in a rod holder….both of these cases talking about not using planer boards.. but, if i am going to run planer boards and i also want to know i am on bottom, i can feel the bottom, pay attention to the number, and set my planer boards out as such. this is all with mono….. and as mentioned previously linecounters are critical for trolling suspended fish , more so in lakes than rivers it seems….at least that is what i have found to be true for me…and, regarding leadcore, i don’t necessarily need a linecounter for that because i can count the colors i have out and watch the rod to see that it’s ticking bottom if that’s what i want it to do….
so, a line counter is very important…but more for when you’re fishing suspended fish, when you’re running boards , and when you’re running boards up on shore….
jen
I like using smaller cranks in the spring, such as a #5. The profile is usually pretty short and stubby with a small diving lip. I’ve had problems in the past trying to get these guys down there until I bought a set of snap weights. I let out about 50 feet of line with the crank, then snap on a 2 oz. – 2 1/2 oz snap weight directly on the line. Then I let out 5 feet at a time feeling for the tick of the bottom. I can guarantee that you won’t find bottom with 200 ‘ of fireline out. As you troll, your line forms a bow and the speed that your trolling cause an uplifting pressure on the line. Try a 2 1/2 oz snap weight 50 feet back from the crank and I would guess you’ll only have to let out another 35-40 feet for a total of 85 – 90 feet (if you’re trolling 10-12 feet of water). Walleyes I’ve caught in the spring trolling seem to fancy the smaller baits …. at least in my boat anyway. I have Church’s snap weights and Offshore makes a decent snap weight. Be advised that Offshore recommends a wrap around the snap to prevent the weight from popping off the slippery “super” lines. The Church snap weights seem to simply clip on and off without the wrap. I haven’t lost one yet anyway and I’ve been using them for three years.
Happy trolling
Thanks…I also have had a lot more success with #5’s in the spring..and really like blue.(in the spring) I think you will also find that from about now for another month you will do well with wally divers..I usually do anyway, but it seems mostly in the spring with wally divers, and the color blue for that matter…Thanks again..Watch your bottom!
If the cranks are tuned correctly…. there’s no reason your cranks should be popping to the surface. Not with 500′ of line out. It is true that running 200′ of line will cause some “lifting” and the added line won’t result in any extra running depth.
On 6# diameter line (Spiderwire), typical line lengths to achieve MAXIMUM running depths for #5 shad raps are met with about 115′ – 130′ of line out to the plug. I can run 200′ of line, but my plugs won’t go any deeper. By the way, a #5 shad rap will run about 8 – 9 feet deep on #6 line….. max depth. If you’re trying to get your plugs down deeper than that by letting out all that extra line, you’ll never get there. Either opt up to a larger rap, revert back to the leadcore, or go to a MUCH smaller diameter line. I’ve messed with the 2# diameter fireline for plug trolling to squeak out a couple extra feet of running depth. You can gain a little depth going that route…. but you really lose a ton of plugs.
Not worth it.
Why is leadcore trolling falling away in popularity? Maybe it is. Maybe it isn’t. I THINK I see less people doing it. On pool 4 the last couple seasons, the leadcore bite on Pepin has been poor when compared to seasons past. Also, there’s so many good crankbaits out there that can reach a specified depth without the leadcore…. and the majority of anglers would prefer to fish w/o the lead line because it really hinders the fight of the fish caught. In my opinion, it just isn’t too much fun. But it is darned effective in some circumstances.
One of the main reasons I gave up my leadcore addiction was it performed so poorly at high speeds. The large diameter of the line cuases some major lift and screws with the running depths of the plugs. Most of my trolling is spent on the plus side of 3 MPH… and lead just isn’t the answer for that application.
And I didn’t HAVE to have linecounters to run lead, but I preferred it. The ability to precisely return to the exact number of feet out to the plug time after time was invaluable. The colored sections can get you close…. but not like a good counter can. And with a ton less fuss.
And when I’m not trolling with lead, do I feel I need counters? Let me ask you this….. how would you like to drive to work tomorrow with your eyes closed? Probably not. Without the counters I feel like I’m guessing… lost in the dark. And the precision needed to be a successful troller would be thrown out the window. No thank you sir! I couldn’t even imagine NOT having counters, holding the rod or not. I need to know the EXACT number of feet to the plug and I don’t want to waste a second getting my lures running at the right depths.
How to tune a plug? This is really easy to do, if you make TINY, incremental adjustments. On a #5 shad rap for example, there is a metal hoop that needs to be tweeked, molded into the plastic of the bill…. NOT the snap ring.
Place the plug on about a rod length of line, next to the boat, with the boat moving forward at trolling speed. Watch how the plug runs. Does it dive straight down and wiggle tightly? Does it run off to the right? To the left? If it runs off to the left or the right, remove the crank from the water and hold it in your hand so the front of the plug faces your body. With a small needle nose pliers, gently grip that metal hoop and make TINY adjustments to that hoop by bending it in the opposite direction that the plug was running.
For example, if the plug skittered off to the side to the right, make a tiny bend in that metal hoop to the left. If the lure ran to the left, bend the hoop to the right. Always in the opposite direction that the plug is running to.
Re-check your plug at the side of the boat to see if your small adjustments are correcting the problem. Adjust as needed to get your plugs diving straight down and running true.
Any other questions, just holler.
Perfect..Thank You Jim..and others…as always..your answers are great! Scott
crankybait, I can’t add much to the great/long answers that James and Jenn have provided to you. what I will add is. why not this summer, give James a call when trolling is used alot in the lake and hire him for a day. bring a friend to spit the costs. I have fished with James and you will learn a ton. talking about fishing and techniques are great to do, doing IT with the POOL 4 MAN (James) is no better way to learn a new method. give him a call soon and book a trip, Then we expect to hear about it here. good luck.. Jack.
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