pool 4 catch and release

what would people think of closing pool 4 to only catch and release from january to opener or just letting people keep sauger during this period. Allowing people to keep sauger will make the area businesses happy and will allow people to keep some fish in their freezers, but having to put back walleyes will help with the overall population and especially help during the spawning period. I just see too many people keeping 3-7 pound walleyes because they need to keep their freezers full of fish. That class of walleye is the breeding stock and we need to let them go. I’ll get off the soapbox now and let me know what you all think.

labsrule

i’m no expert, but the fishery seems to be in a wonderful state the way it is. wouldn’t this cause an overharvesting of the sauger? don’t mess with what is working. IMHO

from what i see plenty of people are already harvesting enough sauger during those months. walleyes are hard to come by at that time. I think the fishery is in good shape, but it can only get better. If you talk to people who have fished the river for 40 or 50 years they will tell you the fishing has gotten worse. We still get a lot of big fish, but you get skunked more than they used to. I fish the river because it is the best fishery in the state, but I just wonder if it could get even better. Early reports are that it has helped in the south st. paul area to create a bigger class of walleye. You are probably right about the damage to the sauger so maybe it would have to be all catch and release, I don’t know and that is why I asked.

labsrule

labs,

I have tossed that question out in the past. I’d like to see a C&R season from April 1 to the first Saturday in May.

My reason is simply this. The border waters are the only open season on walleye. The season should close (to harvest) with the inland water. It’s just getting too popular. At the very least, I’d like to see a reduction in the possession limit to 2 per person/per day during this very limited timeframe.

I’ve also tossed out the idea of closing the river upstream of the Vermillion during the same time period.

OK….let the personal messages flow!!

Jon J.

I think that steveO hit the nail directly square on the head. The fishery up there is just great and it is working so why mess with it? I don’t see a reason.

We have seen many discussions like this where fishermen have ideas they “think” might improve fishing. The DNR closely monitors the health of Pool 4 and has tons of statistics to back them up. In a past presentation to the Walleye Searchers club the DNR stated the number one threat to pool 4 is the silt washing down from the Minnesota river.

Post a reply here if any of you would be interested in what the DNR thinks today. I could see if we can get them to come to a future Walleye Searchers meeting (public invited) to discuss the topic.

Dave Gulczinski

The peak anual walleye harvest happens in May and June…. not January to April. The average angler catches very few walleye as compared to the number of saugers that are caught during that time period. To really effect the walleye poulations, the season would need to be managed in May and June…. and nobody will accept a closed season then.

A year-round slot? Maybe. A closed season during the winter? It wouldn’t accomplish much beyond keeping a group of people content.

I think it would be very interesting to have an open discussion on this with the DNR at one of your meetings. Schedule it and we will come….!

I like the idea of a slot and maybe that is the most acceptable way to make everyone happy. I know that mostly sauger are caught until I would say april. There are an awful lot of walleyes caught in april that we could save by having the season closed at this time. I watched 4 walleyes get caught over 7 pounds in about 20 minutes friday so plenty of walleyes can be caught in april. Thankfully the only thing taken of these fish was a picture.

labsrule

labsrule,

I must not be reading and understanding correctly. In one post you say people are harvesting enough sauger but in the other you want them to target sauger (by closing walleye). You also want walleye closed but “are hard to come by at that time” (during the proposed closure). I guess I need some clarification.

I completely agree with you james I think a slot would be good. I would completely agree with you on that one.

I would love to see a slot limit (for walleyes and sauger) of some sort put on the UMR. While I agree that the fishery generly is in good shape, I believe that the increased pressure the river is seeing will eventually take a toll. If everyone practiced C & R, of course, there would not be a problem. Canada, Minnesota, and others have slot limits, why not the Mississippi River? Canada has all kinds of walleyes, yet they want to make sure it stays that way. I agree that if it is not broken, why fix it. However, I do think that we and nature can improve on what we already have and keep the UMR a vital fishery for generations.

fishsjj,

Well said! I agree 100%. Increased pressure is my concern. I’d like to see the Rainy Rule here. A 2 fish limit, none over 19.5 inches. (April 1st till May Opener) Although the Rainey closes Mid April, I’d settle for a C&R season in place of the closure.

Remember fellow FTR fishermen, I’m a pool 2 guy and can see the benefits of C&R. I’ll admit that I’m more interested in catching fish than eating them.

Jon J.

I personally don’t think we need to change anything YET..

However I have wondered about the Pressure. I know this is going to make me sound old..In the late 80’s early 90’s this area only saw 150 boats in the spring…Seem’s like the last four years with the mild winters there are 100 plus boats every weekend from Oct to May…I guess we will see if the pressure from fisherman or Silting hurts the fishery…

Sitting on the river waiting for the next bite makes one think of some odd things.Closing the season,or having a C&R time frame would,INHO,severly affect those that rely on fisherman to earn a living.It is well known that this time period is the “Thanksgiving Day” for these folks.I understand there is also the fish population to be concerned with.However I have only seen the fishing better each year since I started fishing it 9-10 years ago.Maybe some is due to better technique,but my belief is the population is stronger.One thought does keep running through my mind however.A minimum size limit on Saugers.This is the first year ever for me in pool 4.The size of the Saugers blow my mind.I’m not sure why,but I rarely see these large fish in pool 5.Everyone says Saugers can’t get to 15″.Thats BS as pool 4 will easily prove.I’m not sure if a minimum size is the answer,but it couldn’t hurt could it?As an after thought,that means we’d all be keeping larger Saugers…

Good discussion guys.

A comment on the mentioning that stricter regs might financially harm those that make their livings from the anglers that visit our area. Guides, hotels, baitshops, restaurants would all be included in this group.

I take out a bunch of people in a year. Some want to take home fish and its a priority during the trip. The VAST majority would much rather catch a higher quality fish and let EVERYTHING go than keep a cooler full of eaters.

I would anticipate a boom for the area if a slot limit resulted in an increase in catch rates on 20″+ walleyes instead of a bust.

I think a slot limit on the lines of 14 to 20 would be a good deal, and 1 per person over 20 just in case by some chance two hawgs are caught and want to be moounted, any other ideas suggestions?

I think the question is answered pretty easily why pool 4 has so many more ,and bigger saugers…Look at the Fishery Below it…..Most of those fish u are catching at Red Wing are coming from Lake Pepin an Below that.but then there is some that stay on the lake yr round….Lake Pepin is huge…theres probably alot of fish out there that have never seen a jig or crankbait…so they have lots more time to grow to such size unlike pool 5.

Flick

i think flick pretty much hit it on the head there great answer flick. you da man!!!!!!!!!

In discussions I’ve had with DNR workers, one over 20″ type slots save very few fish as the vast majority of anglers rarely catch more than one 20+” fish in a given day.

If they rarely catch more than one, and they can keep one, the end result is basically predetermined before the regs get put into place.

this is a good discussion…. my problem is the more you know the more you realize you dont know…. that being said Im afraid Im woefully short of facts to try and dictate a fisheries management policy for pool 4….. all any of us have is a gut feel for whats happening in the pool based on our personal and observed angling results…. and angling is not always the most efficient technique for sampling fish populations… but legally its the only one WE have… even with that… I have NOT kept accurate records of my catch rates, #’s and sizes…. perhaps others of us have…. and then of course there is statistical analysis of said records which is a science in and of itself…… this leaves me woefully short of any accurate information to support any comments I might make!!…..

however… if there was data to support it I would certainly be in favor of more restrictive regulations…. even though I know I would be impacted by them to some degree….

this is a great fishery and anything that would help it be better I would support…..

until then we are all free to err in the direction of cauthion and release most or all the fish we catch…… I cant imagine releasing fish would be a bad thing…. and since we comprise a fair percentage of the 10% who take 80% of the fish we could certainly impact the fishery with our actions…..

that is about all I could say!……

I certainly would welcome an input of statistics that might show the impacts of chaged seasons, slots, limits….. that would be very interesting indeed…..

man i love this discussion…..great thoughts by all…..here is my thoughts on this subject…..i know if its not broke dont fix it, BUT my thoughts are, you can make good things even better……think about it….is there any ecosystem that didnt benefit from a slot limit…. i cant think of any….and like james said, i dont think it will hurt the businesses either….but heres where i have some apprehension….pool 4 already is getting mega pressure these days….if it gets even better of a fisherie, where does this pressure limit out?….theres my thoughts ….keep the posts on this subject a comin guys!

I did not say people were harvesting enough sauger I said they were harvesting mostly sauger until around April. From my years on the river and growing up in red wing and talking to people the fishery has slowed a little in its production. It still produces big fish, but the overall numbers during a day are down. I also know that the majority of us release most of our fish, its the guys I know that keep every fish they catch even if it’s 5 pounds. I just wish they would only keep “eater” fish and leave these larger walleyes to fight another day. I like the idea of the rainy rules. I posted this to see what other people thought. I don’t pretend to have all the answers. I just get a little tired of seeing people keep everything they catch. Here is a sample of what I’m talking about. My father, who works in RW, works with a guy who fishes every night on the river. He is quite good at what he does and he catches more big walleyes than anyone i know. He keeps everything he catches whether its 16 inches or 26 inches, and he eats them. Besides the health of himself, I think this also affects the health of the fishery. I suggested allowing sauger to be kept as an option to helping the local businesses, but I can see james’ point. Keep talking guys it great to hear everyone’s opinion on this.

labsrule

Why do people beat up on sauger??? To me, I am just as happy to catch sauger as walleye. I only keep 10-20 fish/year, but I really dont understand why people think it is OK to keep tons of sauger but should release walleye. I hate that the Croix and Miss have a 15″ size limit on walleye but nothing on sauger.

I think you are all a bunch of sauger racists! Just kidding-but you know what I mean.

I have to admit to being a little bit of a sauger racist. They just happen to be in the eater range more often than walleyes, and most of us idiots can catch them a little easier than a walleye. I see your point though. We wouldn’t want to do any damage to the sauger population because they offer enjoyment to so many people who otherwise would never catch a walleye on the river.

anyhow, down with the sauger.

labsrule

The DNR stated the life expectancy of a sauger is short compared to that of a walleye. If the sauger is going to soon die anyway then fishermen may as well keep it. That is one reason for no size limit on sauger.

Dave Gulczinski

never mind my above post then. like I said down with the sauger.

labsrule

I would favor a slot limit on Saugers and Walleyes, and maybe one over XXX number of inches, the only problem with all this IS that there are no DNR fisheries personel that believe any limits or slots are necessary, and it just isn’t going to happen. I really hate to see live wells full with very big females to be cut up. many fisherman’s mindset is to kill everything they catch. all we can hope for is for them at sometime is to realize that CPR is a viable option, AND very beneficial to the whole fishery. Jack.

well said jack

The DNR’s thinking is guided by statistics and percentages. If one person catches a 10lber that was released by someone else it doesn’t add up for them but it sure does for the 2nd fisherman.

I think a C&R season would cost the area financially due to all the early tournaments that couldn’t be held. Tough to have a tournament if you can’t keep any fish. I believe a slot would be well received as it is pretty much becoming common place on most of the good walleye fisheries. Just my opinion.ScottS