3Waying Cranks Question

I’ve done a lot of leadcore trolling, but little trolling raps with 3 ways. I’m wondering what you use as a “standard” dropper length and leader length. I know there are a lot of varibles, but lets say you are in medium to strong current, running 2-2.5 mph, trolling #5 shad raps.
I have run into problems with 12″ drop to weight and 6′ leader to the crank, having the crank dig bottom to much and pick up zebs and sticks. Would you lengthen the drop or shorten the leader?
Thanks for your help!
John

Rooster,

I usually only troll cranks on 3-ways in the early spring but have done it in the hot weather months as well. I almost always pull a double Rapala if I pull cranks on a 3-way rig. I usually have about a 8″ to 12″ drop line to my weight. Then I have about a 3′ to 4′ leader to my first Rapala and another 18″ to 24″ to my trailer Rapala. I have also pulled shallow divers and floaters/suspenders this way.
I try to match the crankbait to the bait I find the fish are feeding on. In the Mississippi the walleye seem to feed mostly on shad and small sheephead. These are fatter bodied baitfish so I try to fish a fat crankbait rather than a skinny Rapala. In the spring I will fish more Rapalas because the baitfish seem to be longer/skinnier that time of the year. I don’t know how scientific this is but it works. I would shorten your leader line by a couple feet and it should help to keep your crank from digging in.
You could try to use a shallower diving crank as well.

When fishing cranks in the warm weather months I mostly just fish a deep diver such as a wally diver or a shad rap.
Plus it is so easy to snag up pulling a 3-way and everytime I lose a double Rapala I am out around $8.00 in Rapalas alone.

Drive safe and watch for deer!

Eyehunter

Thanks eyehunter, I believe I will try shortening to 3-4′ on the leader. I use lead core mostly, but experienced some very high grass flow last time out and thought that 3 ways might allow me a little more time with bait in the zone before filling up with grass.
How do you attach the second rap to the first? Sounds interesting!
John

I don’t use any deep divers on a 3-way set-up myself, lead is the better option in my opinion.

When running stickbaits my leader and dropper combos vary from one crank to another significantly. I may be using 18″ for a # 11 floating rap with a 6′ leader and slightly longer on the dropper for a #13. Larger husky jerks & little rippers can require nearly 24″ of dropper to keep them out of the dirt. It takes a little tinkering to get the right combination but can be done with a new crankbait one might not be familiar with in relatively short order.

My trolling speeds when running 3-ways tend to me much slower than 2 – 2.5 MPH…. you’d need a good chunk of lead to maintain anything approaching a 45′ angle on your line moving into current that quickly. Most of the time I’m letting the current provide most of the action on the cranks and slowly crawling forward with the boat.

If you’re going to use the deep divers and you still find yourself having troubles keeping them out of the bottom lengthening the dropper will work as will increasing the line diameter of the leader material. The handliners use 20+ Lb diameter line to control the dive curve of a stickbait and that might help in this instance as well.

Rooster,

I use a snap swivel or a quick-connect tied to about 18″ to 24″ of line. The other end is tied to the second Rapala.
I attach the swivel to the back hook eye on the first Rapala. I know a few people that remove the last treble hook on the first Rapala but I never have. Pulling double Rapalas is very common among Dubuque area walleye fishermen.
I remember one October 2-day tourney where I must have lost over $50.00 in Rapalas but that is what the fish seemed to want and, despite losing so many cranks, it was worth it at the weight-in. When you fish a double Rapala it is easy to see how much color effects the bite. I fish with two separate colored cranks to see what color is getting the most hits. Having the second crank on a snap swivel makes it easy to change colors. I have had days where I’ll get all my fish on a certain color so I will pull a double of the same crankbait. I have pulled in several “doubles” with a fish on each crank.

Get used to the grass. It is that time of the year when there is a ton of it in the river. I seldom pull cranks after July because of all the debris. I still cast them but it is difficult to go 25 yards pulling them and not pick up grass. I seem to spend more time reeling in to clean off my lures than I do fishing. One advantage of pulling a 3-way rig this time of the year is that the 3-way swivel will catch alot of the grass and help to keep your crankbaits cleaner.

Drive safe and watch for deer.

Eyehunter

Thanks James, eyehunter. I was using 4 and 5 oz. weights, and was able to stay down with # 5 shap raps, but not 8’s and 9’s when I tried them. Tried again today for a bit, but I went with stick baits and 5′ leaders with no problems, but no fish. Not as much salad today, so I switched to lead core and picked up some nice fish on raps. I did not need the 3way to catch grass. I’ll have to try the double crankbait set up this fall! Good way to work through productive and non-productive colors and patterns of cranks.
Thanks guys,
John

I also posted this above in the other thread where info about three-way cranks was asked… it’s from my webite..

THREE WAY CRANKS

THREE WAY CRANKS For those of you not familiar with this technique, I will try to explain it. First it is a very accurate form of trolling. By that I mean a person can very easily position their lure in the walleye-sauger strike zone, again and again. Heres how you do it. First the equipment I most often use with this technique: A bait casting or trolling rod and an Abu Garcia 6500 C3 reel, Trilene 10# XT, and 1-5 oz bell,or pencil sinker, Rapala Original floaters, or husky jerks. Attach one eye of the threeway swivel to the line coming from you rod. Then to one eye of the three way tie about a 24(about 18 inches after tieing and cutting) inch piece of line to a snap swivel and put the sinker on it. This seems to be the universal drop length. (18inches) I’ll explain why later. Then to the third and last eye of the threeway swivel attach about 45 inches of line(40 inches when tied and cut). then attach another snap swivel to this 40 inches of line and place your crank bait on it. Now drop your rig into the water with your boat going the speed you intend to be moving and in the depth you intend to use as your goal,(more about speed and depth latter). Let the line free spool backward until you see the line (sinker) hit bottom. NOW COMES THE SECRET TO BEING RIGHT WHERE YOU WANT TO BE!!!!!! AFTER THE SINKER touched the bottom it almost immediately is lifted off the bottom by hydraulics and forward momentum. You must continue letting more line out again and again until you can drop the tip of your pole backwards three times and see the sinker put slack in the line all three times.(consecutively..in a row-WITH THE BAIL CLOSED). Trust me two times is not enough. Now if you put your rod in the rod holder or hold it in your hand when you come over little bumps or over shallower depths you will see the sinker bumping the bottom. There are several reasons why I say that a 18″ drop and 40″ leader are the universal depth and lenghth. With thousands of hours using this technique I have found that the 18 inch drop and 40inch length puts the bait where the walleye will see it and it will still snag less often than a lesser drop does. My snag up over the same area on the same day seems to almost double when I drop to 12 inches or less(the distance from the threeway swivel to the sinker),even when I adjust the leader lenghth, and the 12 -16 inch lenghth seems to snag more also. Remember we have two things that can snag here. The crankbait and the sinker. Now I know somebody out there is saying why not use a bottom bouncer to avoid snags. I have found that the bulk of the bottom bouncer and it’s design snag almost as much and collect weeds,many times faster, on rivers.. One thing I should point out right now is that with a three way you actually have direct connection to the lure(bait). With a bottom bouncer you don’t. This becomes very evident when the rod is held in your hand while trolling or the second you lift the Bottom bouncer out of the water with a fish on. With regards to speed (slooooow), and depth 11-20 ft. I try to barely make any progress upstream. A football field on most days would take me 45 minutes. Although a lot of people speed up as the weather warms I don’t. Even on lakes and flowages with little current. The rare ocassion is when I’ve lost track of the herd for a while and speed up till I find the fish back. Even then I rarely move much faster than 3/4 miles per hour. When Tony and I won the Mississippi North Regional Championship on Pepin in JUNE we STILL MOVED SLOWLY. When we wanted to move faster we went to Leadcore or longlining cranks. Depth is a deep subject LOL. When I was a young squirt I remember being told that the first major drop from shore holds the most Eyes on the river. Darn it seems like it is almost always 12-18 feet. In our second place finish At the 1999 National Championship on the Rainey River,(Lake of the Woods), we rarely left the 16 -18 foot range. If we moved up off that break it was all No. Pike, and if we when out to the next drop it was all sturgeon. Sinkers are the last item I should cover here. Any day anything from 2-5 ounces will catch fish. In general the shallower you are the lighter you go. Also I usually rig the poles straight out the back of the boat one ounce lighter to get it back a little farther, from the motor. To start I would suggest you just buy 2 0z and 3 0z bell sinkers. They are my most often used weights and a bell sinker forces you to set the depth right. Until you get used to a pencil sinker you may be dragging it on its side rather that just bouncing it on it’s tip, like you need to. Yes that 3-4 inches makes a difference. Now here’s where a lot of people are gonna say WHAAAT??? Forget trying to achieve a 45 degree line angle from your rod tip to the water. It never seems to make a bit of difference with this technique or as far as I have ever been able to figure out with any technique. Still use it as a guide if you like, but don’t drive yourself buggy trying to maintain it.

I’ve had the problem with the drops that they spin and wrap up on the line. I’ve been running a 8-10 inch drop. Sending it to the bottom. Let the set up to settle. drop in again. Then repeat the process one more time. I usually am fishing with raps. This seems to work real well for me. Tho I am always open to suggestions. I have really only started 3-waying this year.

I hate to sound like an idiot, but I don’t know how to rig some of these things. When I’m over for the get together and the kids fishing thing on Friday the 30th. So if you guys could help out I’d be greatful. I’m really into fishing and getting more into it as the days go on. I’m big into pan fishing and really good at fishing the Chippewa River. I want to learn how to fish for eyes on the Mississippi. So please can you guys help me???

Here’s an image I put together some time ago for a seminar on using a 3-way. It should give you a good idea of the basics for starters. Holler back if you have any other questions.

3 way rig with soft body floating jighead.

This time with a floating crankbait.

Is there any advantage to rigging your sinker so it slides. I know the new style bottom bouncers are made to slide and they have better succes on light biters

When using a crankbait the answer would be no. With live bait… sometimes. In the river I shy completely away from using bouncers personally but you can also rig up a 3 way to ‘slide’ like you mentioned and I have had instances when this really made a difference. I have moved away from this presentation and gone more toward dragging really light jigs when the bite gets finicky wirh the 3-ways. Less terminal tackle between me and the fish and nuttin’ beats a big walleye caught on a crawler and 1/16 ounce jig.

If I was in a situation where I was missing a good number of fish pulling 3-ways and bait I would certainly give it a shot.

Thanks Jim, I will try doing that. I’ve been looking for different diagrams of how to rig stuff and never can really find them on the internet and haven’t wasted the time to buy an expensive book that I will only use a coulple of times.

If you have rigging questions just ask away. You’ll be floored by what we can dig up around here.