VNP, did the park ranger go to far?

I’m thinking a large settlement check will be written for this tasering incident.

http://www.timberjay.com/stories/communities-on-edge-over-policing-at-voyageurs-national-park,19237?fbclid=IwAR2p3_ZDl7OGoiZ-wRRINxT6TMI3Bma3WzFiHg3JmIhLrGlu5dXUDIiBzNc

I haven’t been up there in a while but I have had some friends visit in the last couple years and they didn’t experience any issues or checks, same with my brother.

I got a speeding ticket on my snowmobile up there YEARS ago. They take the lake speed limit within the park seriously. Specially a kid going over twice the limit…my fault, not theirs.

Nothing worse than rude law enforcement. Especially in an area like that.
Ive come across border patrol up there getting the same vibe. They need to cool it. They work for us.

Yikes, in all the years going to VNP, albeit on Rainy, I can’t imagine something escalating to the level of being tasered…twice! We rarely see the Park Rangers, on Rainy it’s more often Border Patrol, sheriff or DNR CO. Park Rangers are usually just checking permits. And they tasered him while he was trying to get a pontoon off the rocks?!? We, unfortunately, had 2 incidents with boats sinking in one of our first years and law enforcement was very helpful to us and RLHB employees. I’d like to hear the whole story before passing judgment but jeez this sure sounds like a power trip by the Ranger.

I sure hope Justin gets a healthy check from this. He just wanted his guests and houseboat back into the safer calmer water of the bay which was just around the corner.
The rangers were so hell bent on citing someone that they forgot about safety first. They were willing to board and potentially damaged and sinking vessel to do so.
I witnessed rangers stopping boats while under way like a state patrol traffic stop a couple weeks ago.
I’ve been spending time up there my whole life and can tell you that that practice is new this year. Not that it’s necessarily wrong, it’s just never been done like that up there.
This new head ranger has been in 8 parks in 14 years. To me that’s a red flag that he’s the problem and had been a problem in other parks hence the reason he’s getting moved around the country every other year.
It should be interesting to see where this goes. In the meantime I suggest having all your ducks in a row and following all boating laws unless you want to meet this gentleman and find out what he’s like for yourself.

There is always 3 stories so I really don’t want to comment until a court of law makes a decision. If any procedures where not followed correctly then there should be a punishment.

Be polite and professional, NO excuse for not being those 2 things.

I knew Justins dad, if they think a badge will over-ride the safety of Justine clients they have another think coming. There is more to the story and it will come out in court. When they tasered and arrested Justine for looking out for the safety of his clients they poked the wrong Bear.

Dutchboy wrote:

I knew Justins dad, if they think a badge will over-ride the safety of Justine clients they have another think coming. There is more to the story and it will come out in court. When they tasered and arrested Justine for looking out for the safety of his clients they poked the wrong Bear.

By reading that entire article it is obvious there are a lot of problems within that organization and this is not an isolated incident. Seems like its maybe more over the top than the other stories, but will be interesting to hear more about it. From the sounds of it this isnt the last we have heard about it by a long shot. How old is Justin? I am guessing he is younger?

supercat wrote:

There is always 3 stories so I really don’t want to comment until a court of law makes a decision. If any procedures where not followed correctly then there should be a punishment.

I agree it would be nice to hear a statement from the park service. They’ve yet to release their side of the story though. I think it’s strange that many weeks have gone by without a word about the incident from the park.

Early 50’s, late 40’s I think. He is no kid, he knows what he is doing and was taught well by Joe.

Justin is about 40 I’d guess
His dad was Joe Ebel. Justin and his mom took over the company when Joe passed away.
My family has known that family for 40+ years. They are good hard working people.

On a VNP trip a few years back we were warned by two separate and unrelated parties, at separate times, of an “aggressive” law enforcement attitude in VNP. Both parties described this attitude in very similar terms, which IMO is pretty unsettling.

It seems there is a major, major issue with the NPS conducting stops and searches within VNP with scant and/or no probable cause. NPS officers in particular seemed to be able to pull probable cause for a stop and search out of virtually thin air.

I hope people who have experienced stops and searches by VNP NPS officers will report all suspected oversteps to the US Attorney’s Office and their US Representatives. It seems to me like it’s time to conduct a reverse sting operation on VNP to get a handle on how the NPS are really conducting stops and searches.

Only twice in my life did some CO or park ranger act rudely towards me. One was a female and she was putting her power trip on. The other time was during ice fishing and the guy was trying so hard to insinuate that I was doing something illegally, of which I’m not. Asked to see each lure in my possession on each rod, looked at each rod combo thoroughly, took over half hour. The fish weren’t biting anyways, but he still took my license info down and everything. Cannot expect everyone to be cordial.

Interesting read…
Bummed to hear about this as I love VNP and have never had a negative experience there. Would REALLY like to hear more witness accounts of the taser incident. But you’d think if it were a distress situation (IE a passenger vessel on the rocks with damage) that the Rangers would be well aware and even assisting with the recovery and not trying to interrupt it.

That aside, hard to understand the overall situation concerning “Harassment” of innocent boaters but the chorus of reports from resort/houseboat owners doesn’t sound good. I will say that the Rangers have the responsibility to police BIG water with many hazards and a lot of the people they interact with probably don’t have a lot of experience. I personally have zero problem with random stops/checks – I’ve been though MANY with the DNR, Sheriff, etc. and have never had a negative experience. It’s all a balance with the public and it sounds like the balance might be off right now. Hope they can make things right so it’s not a long-term issue.

The reason we arent hearing more I am sure is because of a pending lawsuit. Details will not emerge until that is settled one way or the other.

. I personally have zero problem with random stops/checks – I’ve been though MANY with the DNR, Sheriff, etc. and have never had a negative experience.

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So you’re ok to get pulled over in your vehicle to see if you’re wearing your seat belt, all your lights work, your tires have enough tread, etc??? You weren’t doing anything wrong and an officer just pulled you over looking for something to write a ticket.
That’s stepping over the line in my opinion.

I can see this straying from the topic, lets stay on course.

MX1825 wrote:

.
So you’re ok to get pulled over in your vehicle to see if you’re wearing your seat belt, all your lights work, your tires have enough tread, etc??? You weren’t doing anything wrong and an officer just pulled you over looking for something to write a ticket.
That’s stepping over the line in my opinion.

I’m strictly referring to boating, MX – and that’s standard operating procedure. Have you never been checked by the DNR or Sheriff on the water?? – they need no reason at all to check you… I assumed most, if not all, the complaints from VNP were water encounters? If I missed that, I apologize.

CaptainMusky wrote:

The reason we arent hearing more I am sure is because of a pending lawsuit. Details will not emerge until that is settled one way or the other.

x2 I was thinking the same.

Sorry Thunder but I thought only a CO has the the right to randomly stop you. I didn’t think that the Sheriff had more rights on the water than he has on land. Maybe I’m wrong but if the Sheriff can’t just stop you on land unless he has probable cause I don’t think he can on the water either. Just wanting clarification.
I have never been pulled over on the water while moving from 1 spot to another. I’ve only been checked when fishing a spot when stationary or running the trolling motor.

‘Power trip?’ If you really want to show you have the power be professional and polite, that is the way that you show that your authority cannot be challenged.

Was there another article all of you are reading that I missed in here bc the facts seems incredibly vague at best and not sure how one could provide any kind of opinion on it

Deuces wrote:

Was there another article all of you are reading that I missed in here bc the facts seems incredibly vague at best and not sure how one could provide any kind of opinion on it

Doesn’t seem vague to me.

“A sampling of issues raised during the hour-long meeting included:
A culture of unwarranted and excessive stops, based on guest reports.
Guests who have been stopped multiple times in their boats by rangers during short visits to the lake.
Rangers acting rudely or in a demeaning or belligerent manner to guests.
Fear of retaliation among guests and businesspeople should someone register a formal complaint about being stopped or the conduct of rangers.
Concern that Wentz is responsible for reviewing complaints about law enforcement rather than having an independent committee including community representatives do so.
A lack of transparency from park officials about law enforcement activities, particularly with regard to the tasing incident.
Creating a hazard by placing three bouys in a navigable channel in non-park waters.
Rangers interfering with resort personnel when they are trying to handle a situation involving their guests and boats.
Guests who may not return.
The park is in danger of developing a negative reputation for excessive law enforcement activity that will negatively impact businesses.

Deuces wrote:

Was there another article all of you are reading that I missed in here bc the facts seems incredibly vague at best and not sure how one could provide any kind of opinion on it

This is just a very different thread than usual for some reason. Extra hilarious that it even has the quote from Justin’s mom saying he’s “a good kid” like every one that gets posted here. Shouldn’t he have just complied and don’t we need to wait for footage or an investigation to make up our minds? I do agree with most of the people here but the irony is off the charts. Maybe IDO is coming around…

Pretty easy to cross this area off the family vacation list.

To be brutally honest, I am surprised it took as long as it did for there to be an “incident” up there. Of the 3 national parks I visit frequently, my impression is that fisherman and powerboats are not looked upon favorably – IN GENERAL. Not every ranger, not even most, seems to have a dislike for fisherman/boaters, but I have personally witnessed enough behavior by them that fits the articles narrative for me to have the gut feeling of siding with Ebel.

Timmy wrote:

To be brutally honest, I am surprised it took as long as it did for there to be an “incident” up there. Of the 3 national parks I visit frequently, my impression is that fisherman and powerboats are not looked upon favorably – IN GENERAL. Not every ranger, not even most, seems to have a dislike for fisherman/boaters, but I have personally witnessed enough behavior by them that fits the articles narrative for me to have the gut feeling of siding with Ebel.

Being a water based National Park you can’t lump them in with other lakes and rivers. It’s different up here for the most part.

I actually read this article while sitting in my campsite last week on Namakan. Last Wednesday was my 500th day camping in VNP since I started going there 26 years ago.

To me this article is not what I’ve encountered for the last 25 years. Way overboard if this played out the way it’s described. I’ve had only about a half dozen “contacts” with Park wardens (a few more with DNR officers, including several with the infamous Lloyd Steen who to us, was always cordial and professional) over all those years.

In past years they have been straight forward and easy to deal with. In one case we should have definitely been given a citation, but they said because we were honest about it, all we got was a verbal warning.

It’s too bad that it appears that a new head warden seems to be creating a negative situation where one has not been an issue before. I obviously love the park, but know that this can cause folks to not want to return if they feel harassed. And being stopped multiple times on a 3/4/5 day trip there is not usual/normal. Hopefully Mr Head Warden can move onto his 9th park in 15 years in 2023.

It’s a case of a new officer and a new head guy. Both trying to make a name for themselves. Once it hits the court system the whole story will come out. Until then flip a coin and pick a side.