I started using suffix 832 last year on pool 4 with a fluorocarbon leader. I mostly pull cranks, throw blade baits, and jigs. My question to all is this necessary? I understand what the fluorocarbon does but with the stained water I’m just wondering of its needed so I thought I would ask the group. Just wanted to know what everybody else does in there setup. Excited for open water, thanks in advance.
Good question, I run braid on most of my reels and I love it. As far as putting on a leader or flouro or mono it depends on the type of fishing I’m doing. For ex: pulling cranks I don’t ever use a leader for that. As far as everything else I still run a leader. I’ve noticed even in stained water braid can still make a difference with catching fish or not catching fish.
I use a floro leader for 3 reasons listed in order of importance. Might change depending on the water clarity though.
1. Tie able section of line. Makes retie easier.
2. Shock absorber. Floro is extremely elastic and helps give a little stretch to the line.
3. Visibility.
My favorite application is when pitching blades… With a 20 lb fluorocarbon leader you don’t get the braid tangling up in the trebles nearly as often.
I use braid in some cases when I am jigging on the river but I use a plain snap and no leader. I used to do the leader thing but I don’t see any difference an the river. Lakes with clearer water maybe.
Shock absorber. Floro is extremely elastic and helps give a little stretch to the line.
I’ve seen this posted before on IDO, maybe by you maybe not. Either way, I’m very curious, where are you getting your info from as to the elastic properties of flourocarbon lines.
The reason I ask is this, fluorocarbon line stretch appears to be totally dependent on the brand you buy. They are not all the same. Some have very low stretchability compared to others and most, appear to stretch less than mono in general.
In general, the biggest advantages to using a fluorcarbon leader or line is that it has greater abrasion-resistance, lower-stretch and it is much less visible to fish.
I’ve tried it with a uni to uni knot and it’s always broken off at the knot on snags so I gave up. I have never had it on long enough to catch anything. However, my son and I were ice fishing Rainy Lake several years ago using the exact same set up, other than he had a fluoro leader, in the same tent. He caught a LOT more and BIGGER walleyes than I did.
I use a floro leader pretty much all the time, maybe out of habit as much as anything. Started doing it on Lake Winnebago as it was heavy with zebras, and it holds up better than braid, and you can see weak spots easier.
Lack of visibility I figure never hurts. Tossing cranks on stained water… usually only use a leader when it is already tied on, or durability is a concern. As said, it is much easier to not get the hooks snagged up in while casting… and that may be one of the biggest benefits.
As far as stretch, I’d ask how much stretch you could ever expect from a three foot section? I personally don’t take that into consideration at all.
I only run a leader when the water is really clear. Most of the bodies of water I fish are stained. I have not seen any difference in catch rate when not in gin clear water. I have fished many times with a rod that has a leader in one hand and one that doesn’t in the other hand and caught pretty equal numbers on both. Adding another knot is just another point of failure, and I only do that when it is necessary, which is rare.
For P4 I went to tying braid direct 2 years ago and have seen so difference in fish caught. To me when your fishing the spring and have a crack and a absolute pig the leader is just one more weak link to worry about. Also tend to lose a lot less blade baits because you can really give baits a hard snap to pop them free.
the leader is just one more weak link to worry about. Also tend to lose a lot less blade baits because you can really give baits a hard snap to pop them free.
I agree 100 %.. No need for a leader on the Mississippi in my opinion.. Everyone has a preference though
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
Shock absorber. Floro is extremely elastic and helps give a little stretch to the line.I’ve seen this posted before on IDO, maybe by you maybe not. Either way, I’m very curious, where are you getting your info from as to the elastic properties of flourocarbon lines.
The reason I ask is this, fluorocarbon line stretch appears to be totally dependent on the brand you buy. They are not all the same. Some have very low stretchability compared to others and most, appear to stretch less than mono in general.In general, the biggest advantages to using a fluorcarbon leader or line is that it has greater abrasion-resistance, lower-stretch and it is much less visible to fish.
Besides personal experience, just google “fishing line stretch test”. The one and only time I spoiled with floro, I took it off after a couple trips due to zero sensitivity and enormous stretch. Maybe it’s related to the manufacturer but I’ve decided that it works best as a leader material and love the combination with braid.
This comes directly from Berkley’s website:
Did You Know?
Many anglers believe that fluorocarbon is a low-stretch line, and credit its sensitivity to this factor. But it actually stretches more than nylon mono. The difference is, it takes a greater force to get fluoro stretching in the first place. As a result, fluoro makes a fine choice for situations where controlled stretch is helpful, whether as a mainline or a leader in conjunction with low-stretch superline. Paired with its higher density and direct contact due to its sinking ability this line is incredibly sensitive.
I use (14 to 20) pound test braid and I tie directly to a ~ 16″ (60 to 80) pound test fluorocarbon leader using Seager’s leader material. I use the Alberto knot “tough as heck, good knot”. I do this because there’s plenty of toothy critters in the area and they’ll slice right thru 20 pound braid like butter.
For P4 I went to tying braid direct 2 years ago and have seen so difference in fish caught. To me when your fishing the spring and have a crack and a absolute pig the leader is just one more weak link to worry about. Also tend to lose a lot less blade baits because you can really give baits a hard snap to pop them free.
x2. once the water gets stained the fish don’t seem to care. I typically run just straight mono until the water gets dirty.
I use Berkley Vanish in 6 pound on one of my long Lake Superior rods and I sure as heck don’t see much stretch in it. Maybe the heavier weights, but 6 pound is very shy on stretch.
Besides personal experience, just google “fishing line stretch test”. The one and only time I spoiled with floro, I took it off after a couple trips due to zero sensitivity and enormous stretch. Maybe it’s related to the manufacturer but I’ve decided that it works best as a leader material and love the combination with braid.
If you got Zero Sensitivity and lots of stretch with Fluro I’m not sure what Fluro you were using. It may have more stretch than Braid but far less than Mono. Same as far as Sensitivity.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
Besides personal experience, just google “fishing line stretch test”. The one and only time I spoiled with floro, I took it off after a couple trips due to zero sensitivity and enormous stretch. Maybe it’s related to the manufacturer but I’ve decided that it works best as a leader material and love the combination with braid.
If you got Zero Sensitivity and lots of stretch with Fluro I’m not sure what Fluro you were using. It may have more stretch than Braid but far less than Mono. Same as far as Sensitivity.
Not always the case. Look at some simple test people have done comparing mono and fluoro. The results were not what I expected. I actually think someone from IDO did a comparison not to long ago.
Edit* Here is the link to the test.
http://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/community/forums/topic/ftlgeneral_1328841/
Many anglers believe that fluorocarbon is a low-stretch line, and credit its sensitivity to this factor. But it actually stretches more than nylon mono.
Many anglers believe this because that’s exactly what line manufactures were telling us.
The old line was: Mono absorbs water and because of this property, it stretches more than fluorocarbon.
Now a days, we have so many different line choices, (including the fluoro carbon lines) that its really hard to generalize across the board. Saying fluorocarbon lines have more stretch than mono is simply to general of a statement to mean anything. (same goes for the opposite: Mono having more stretch than fluoro)
The reality is, which two lines are you comparing & at what lb test. (which fluorocarbon line vs mono)
Until someone does a test on every lb test fluoro against every lb test mono, we will not know exactly how they compare.
Additionally, at what point does any of these lines reach the load where it begins to stretch?
If fluorocarbon lines were as bad with stretch as some claim, it seems very unlikely that many muskie fishermen would use them for leaders. That is unless the load point was so great that the amount of stretch makes no difference.
I’ve become a bit leery over the years with who’s doing some of these test also. To often, the tester is a line company that is setting up these test in a way that makes there product look the best.
Calling a fluoro carbon line “very elastic” is not very accurate in my opinion. And I don’t mean to rip on anyone when saying that. If it takes 20lbs of pull (arbitrary number) to get it to even begin to stretch, whereas another line may stretch less but begins to stretch at 10lbs of pull, which ones more elastic?
See what I’m saying here? Its all relative to what your comparing it too!
And it is important to remember that for leaders, we’re only talking about a short piece of line where stretch in particular, is negligible.
This thread is a perfect example of why fishing lines have become so confusing for so many people. To many choices with an infinite number of variables to compare.
It was actually me that did the stretch test last year and I am doing a second test that I’ll post in a few weeks. A total of 20 lines – fluorocarbon, mono and co-polymer. Will also compare lines from each category that are the same diameter. -Fry
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>fishthumper wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
Besides personal experience, just google “fishing line stretch test”. The one and only time I spoiled with floro, I took it off after a couple trips due to zero sensitivity and enormous stretch. Maybe it’s related to the manufacturer but I’ve decided that it works best as a leader material and love the combination with braid.
If you got Zero Sensitivity and lots of stretch with Fluro I’m not sure what Fluro you were using. It may have more stretch than Braid but far less than Mono. Same as far as Sensitivity.
Not always the case. Look at some simple test people have done comparing mono and fluoro. The results were not what I expected. I actually think someone from IDO did a comparison not to long ago.
Edit* Here is the link to the test.
http://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/community/forums/topic/ftlgeneral_1328841/
I remember seeing this back when it was posted and being surprised as well.
But again, what is really being tested here?
Simple line stretch with an 8lb weight. The duration of time that this 8lb weight hung on each line I’m sure was the same but what was that duration?
And, how does that compare to say, a walleye or muskie fisherman setting the hook?
The test gives us no insight at all into how much load it takes to get these lines to begin stretching in the first place and that does matter.
If the mono begins stretching as soon as it gets any load on it, its going to feel likes its stretching a lot to the angler.
If any line takes a heavy load to begin stretching, even if its overall ability to stretch is greater, its still not going to feel like it has very much stretch to the angler.
A couple other quick points:
-I’m not a pro or affiliated with any line company. Purely an amateur looking for which lines will stretch less (good for a main line) and which will stretch more (beneficial in many cases as a leader).
-Diameter can have an affect, so I’ll also be breaking out those lines that are the same test (8 lb) and diameter (.009).
-Water absorption is a tough one to test for. I don’t have a lab for that. What I might recommend if you do want one of the lower stretch lines that reportedly does NOT absorb water is a co-polymer by the name of Yo-Zuri Hybrid. It has a mono core with a fluorocarbon coating. Yo-Zuri HB does stretch less, but do note it is a little thicker in diameter as well.
” This thread is a perfect example of why fishing lines have become so confusing”
Couldn’t agree more Joel!
Way back when…I had Cortland green and white braid on my Muskie reels and Berkley mono on everything else. I now have a bag full of all different kinds of line. I’m going to keep two rods spooled up with 832 and everything else is going back to mono.
I agree too…and there has been so many new lines, types of lines and companies with new products, etc. How do you figure out what works for you – you experiment I guess.
I bought into the fluorocarbon thing about 5 years ago and partly was because many are marketed as low stretch. I remember my first spool on a trip to Rainy Lake. Every long cast I would get bit by a smallmouth and set the hook – whiff, after whiff, after whiff. I couldn’t set the hook fast enough unless it was within 15 feet of the boat. The stretch was very frustrating. I went back to mono and hardly missed a fish the rest of the trip.
KVD is my smallmouth fishing hero but his claims that XPS fluorocarbon is low stretch did not hold true for me. It was like setting the hook with a long rubber band. I will use it as a leader on braid when I do need invisibility and a little stretch is good – but I have been in pursuit of the best low-stretch non-braid line ever since.
My tests are not laboratory based but I use the same process with each line. I don’t care which brand the line is, just looking for what meets my personal needs best and glad to post for others to look at and compare.
Plus its something to do during a long, cold winter and helps to think ahead to open, soft water…
frydog – I like your test but again, what are they really telling us?
For me, its simply how each line compares to another. And that’s about it.
Out in the boat, do any of us know how much load we can even create with each of the different rods we use?
If we don’t know the amount of load we can actually apply or create on the hook set and after while fighting a fish, it becomes very hard to figure out which line is the best for anything.
In order for this to be useful, we need to know two things:
1) whats the load point where a line begins to stretch.
2) how much load can we actually create with a particular setup. (rod/reel)
I apologize. I really have no interest in fighting about it.
My personal experience is what it is and so is my recommendation. Wrong to some obviously.
Try the FG Knot in this video. Great for those micro guides.
I apologize. I really have no interest in fighting about it.
My personal experience is what it is and so is my recommendation. Wrong to some obviously.
Sorry biggill! I didn’t realize we were fighting?
As far as I was concerned, we were having a discussion about fishing line.
In no way, shape or form was I calling you out, or claiming or even implying that your point of view was wrong.
Remember, this is the internet and there is no way to tell what another persons tone or demeanor is when they type a reply. I did not mean to dis-respect you or your opinion.
Good read though a little long. The most important thing that everyone missed here is that fluoro and mono over the broad spectrum both stretch, but only mono is elastic. Stretch and elasticity have been used interchangeably by everyone in this post but they are very different things.I like fluoro for limited uses,otherwise I stick to mono or braid. No leaders for walleye fishing though.
The leader for the most part is less than 2′ long so if the fluorocarbon has some stretch does it matter. Fluorocarbon has more stretch than braid, but does it matter if it’s only being used for a leader? BTW nice knot but could be tricky out in the boat? Never had a problem with the Alberto knot and it’s very easy to tie.
http://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/alberto-knot/
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