I agree with eyeguy54.
My philosophy is if they take care of the flag by not letting it get tattered and dispose of it properly I have no problem with them having it unlit at night.
And yes M.C. Winther some of us do have thicker skin.
Me with my brothers
RLTW!
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My Grandfather enlisted with the Marines in 1943, served over 38 years, logged over 5000 hours of flight time. He retired as Master Gunnery Sergeant. At his funeral, his fellow Marines folded his flag to give to his widow. Grandma had dementia, and alziemers, she could barely see or think. Yet the Marines folding the flag took 15 minutes of refolding that flag to make sure it was PERFECT. Know one could have shown more respect than they did. It’s probably hard for those who’ve served and trained to respect the flag in this manner, to see others not follow the same protocol. Yet, the good folks who fly the flag in the dark, 24/7, fly it because they also love the flag, and what it stands for. I doubt any of them are trying to offend folks.
Let’s not fight amonst ourselves over something we’re all quite passionate about!
not fighting. looks like we are all being fairly respectable. lots nicer than stuff that happens on other sites.
Just have to ask; Does it offend you when see this? Does it make a difference who is doing it? Does it make a difference if the folks carrying the flag are dressed in military uniforms?
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an-oversized-american-flag-being-carried-for-desert-storm-parade-ny-city.jpg
People-Carry-A-Huge-United-States-Flag-In-An-Independence-Day-Parade.jpg
I was unaware of these flag etiquette rules. I see them all the time on lakes and houses unlit. Regardless, it a sign of respect to some degree, even if it’s not perfectly by the rules. Their heart is in the right place. They’re showing patriotism and thus, respect for those who protected our freedoms: the Vets, as well as those currently serving.
I proudly served 1967 to 1970, and not only lost a few of my service friends during those times, but after coming home got to witness the terrible after effects on some of my friends that also served then. While I am all for respecting the flag, and our country. whether or not some home owner has a light on the flag, they proudly display, would be the very last thing I, or I’m sure anyone else that served with me then, would ever think of making such a stink about. I do cringe when I see a flag in shreds, but just hope that at some point soon, they get a new one. As to linking handicap parking, and not putting a light on a flag at night, they have nothing to do with each other. To say that because I feel this way, I must be ignorant, a butt hole, or that it’s the same as spitting on the flag, IS total disrespect of our veterans, as I am a proud vet. While certain topics seem to bring out the passion in some forum members, when you start associate terms such as butt hole, ignorant, and spitting on the flag to fellow forum members, just because they don’t agree with your point of view, is totally un called for.
agreed Ed, and we can all agree that we love our flag and country. As far as lighting goes I like the idea of having it lit up on public buildings and such. Out in the middle of a lake, no biggy. It’s easy to type nasty but we can all rise above that. HOOAH brothers !
Remember, these are only my opinions. There was a simple question. My answer simple. Remember the old saying…. “Anything worth doing is worth doing right.”. Want to fly a flag? Great! How hard is it to follow some simple rules? Any one who has spent time around me knows me as “What you see is what you get” My view of the word is pretty much black and white, right and wrong, there is not much in between. It appears I need to put a little more content behind my comment.
Flash back to the year 1976. I was a young kid during the Bi Centennial. The 200 year birthday of the United States. There was a LOT of Flag waving that year. Not uncommon to see flag shirts, flag hats, flag pants, flags painted on water towers, Harly tanks, VW bugs. you get the picture.
I was a 13 years old kid with long hair, a skate board and a t-shirt that looked like it was cut out of a flag. Probably right off the rack from Sears or K-mart back then. Again, pretty common T-shirt. Walking towards home one day during summer break from school. Couple houses down from where I lived a neighbor walked up to me and in one clean motion tore that shirt clean off my body and bitch slapped me up side the head. Turned around and walked away. That guy was a Vietnam Vet who obviously would have nothing of it. Lesson learned. Back then most neighborhood kids got smacked around by pissed off adults. Just the way it was. Some of you may remember…???? Anyway, never thought much about it. Never wore any flag clothes again. Lesson learned, life went on.
Fast forward to 1981. Fresh out of high school. Still a kid who wanted to see the world. Signed up for the Marine Corps. Off I went. Boot camp, radio school, off to Okinawa for a year then landed at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. During my stint there I “volunteered” (All you x marines know what I mean) for Flag Duty. This was a 30 day assignment to raise and lower the flag at the main entrance to the base. Probably the biggest reason for the assignment was me replacing a guy with the same general height/weigh/build so I fit into the set of Dress Blues you needed to wear to perform the twice daily duty. Lucky me. How hard could this be?
Summer 1984. Long days, Early sunrise, late sunsets. There were 6-8 of us rotating in and out. Up at 03:30 hours (3:30am). Dress for inspection. Load up from the barracks to the bus, run out to the front gates. Formation and a very specific set of duties to get that flag up each day. Many days there were visitor at the gate area. High ranking Marines, politicians, VIPs to observe. No f-ups allowed. None. Quickly learned this was a big deal! That was pretty much ensured by 3-4 hours a day practicing and studying that code DT posted. We were quizzed daily on every single rule in that code. By the end of that 30 days, I had it memorized! 30 days of standing at attention 3-4 hours a day in the summer North Carolina heat raising and lowering the flag at our barracks. Then late evenings performing the lowering. End the day 1030 – 11pm during the summer. Repeat.
No complaints. There was a lot of hard jobs before flag duty and a lot after. Point was I learned a lot about the flag then. Gained a lot of respect for the history and traditions. And on the last day of flag duty, standing at attention saluting the dropping flag to the sound of taps playing over the PA, I remember a long long hair 13 year old kid and a pissed off vet. I had a lump in my throat and pride bursting from my dress blues.
-J.
interesting. I like your tag. Brother in law used to always say,” every dog deserves a boy” always had to agree.
Jon, as a past service man myself, I can appreciate your time served, like only a past or present service person could. It just has a special meaning to us. Reading your reply gave me a much better understanding, although I still stand by what I said, that to associate the terms that were given, to fellow forum members, many of which proudly served as you did, is totally uncalled for. I have many friends on both sides of this divided political times, yet we remain friends because we respect each others rights to their beliefs. This country is truly divided right now, but does that mean only one side or the other is right, or does it actually mean that the best answer is somewhere in the middle, where each persons beliefs and views are respected?
Ed Sandle,
I re-read the entire thread. I did post:
“For a lot of us who have served, it is considered rather disrespectful not to.”
For “A lot of us” may be true or not true. I can say for me, I find it rather disrespectful. I should not speak for others. Vets included.
I think the word “ignorant” probably sets some people off in the wrong direction. How about the term “Uninformed”? More respectful communication of the same meaning. For those uninformed, would it be right or wrong to keep doing something they now know ticks some people off? Something that is opposed to the US code of flag etiquette? Something that is so easy to change?
-J.
…
As was pointed out it’s everybody’s own decision to make. For me i’ll continue to take pride in the country by flying & displaying a flag. If some are offended so be it. It seems these days you can’t please everyone.
I personally don’t find my actions as offensive as the schools removing the pledge of allegiance, but I suppose that’s a fight for another day.
I feel that when people choose to fly an American flag they convey a message about how they feel about what that flag represents. Most times I get the feeling that a person wants convey pride and respect. sometimes people fly old tattered flags and send a message of neglect, sometimes blatant disrespect. I enjoy seeing people taking the time to have a flag set up on there house. lit or unlit, it shows they care about this country. should it be lit? id say yes if its practical to do so, if not just send the right message.
Josh Kepp
U.S.M.C.
iwa.jpg
Remember, these are only my opinions. There was a simple question. My answer simple. Remember the old saying…. “Anything worth doing is worth doing right.”. Want to fly a flag? Great! How hard is it to follow some simple rules? Any one who has spent time around me knows me as “What you see is what you get” My view of the word is pretty much black and white, right and wrong, there is not much in between. It appears I need to put a little more content behind my comment.
Flash back to the year 1976. I was a young kid during the Bi Centennial. The 200 year birthday of the United States. There was a LOT of Flag waving that year. Not uncommon to see flag shirts, flag hats, flag pants, flags painted on water towers, Harly tanks, VW bugs. you get the picture.
I was a 13 years old kid with long hair, a skate board and a t-shirt that looked like it was cut out of a flag. Probably right off the rack from Sears or K-mart back then. Again, pretty common T-shirt. Walking towards home one day during summer break from school. Couple houses down from where I lived a neighbor walked up to me and in one clean motion tore that shirt clean off my body and bitch slapped me up side the head. Turned around and walked away. That guy was a Vietnam Vet who obviously would have nothing of it. Lesson learned. Back then most neighborhood kids got smacked around by pissed off adults. Just the way it was. Some of you may remember…???? Anyway, never thought much about it. Never wore any flag clothes again. Lesson learned, life went on.
Fast forward to 1981. Fresh out of high school. Still a kid who wanted to see the world. Signed up for the Marine Corps. Off I went. Boot camp, radio school, off to Okinawa for a year then landed at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. During my stint there I “volunteered” (All you x marines know what I mean) for Flag Duty. This was a 30 day assignment to raise and lower the flag at the main entrance to the base. Probably the biggest reason for the assignment was me replacing a guy with the same general height/weigh/build so I fit into the set of Dress Blues you needed to wear to perform the twice daily duty. Lucky me. How hard could this be?
Summer 1984. Long days, Early sunrise, late sunsets. There were 6-8 of us rotating in and out. Up at 03:30 hours (3:30am). Dress for inspection. Load up from the barracks to the bus, run out to the front gates. Formation and a very specific set of duties to get that flag up each day. Many days there were visitor at the gate area. High ranking Marines, politicians, VIPs to observe. No f-ups allowed. None. Quickly learned this was a big deal! That was pretty much ensured by 3-4 hours a day practicing and studying that code DT posted. We were quizzed daily on every single rule in that code. By the end of that 30 days, I had it memorized! 30 days of standing at attention 3-4 hours a day in the summer North Carolina heat raising and lowering the flag at our barracks. Then late evenings performing the lowering. End the day 1030 – 11pm during the summer. Repeat.
No complaints. There was a lot of hard jobs before flag duty and a lot after. Point was I learned a lot about the flag then. Gained a lot of respect for the history and traditions. And on the last day of flag duty, standing at attention saluting the dropping flag to the sound of taps playing over the PA, I remember a long long hair 13 year old kid and a pissed off vet. I had a lump in my throat and pride bursting from my dress blues.
-J.
Well said!
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Hot Runr Guy wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jon Jordan wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dustin Gesinger wrote:</div>
So you are saying it’s better to not fly a flag at all then to fly a flag in support of your country even if it’s not 100% to the rules?Yes.
-J.
James,
If in your position as Keymaster here on IDO, your comment reflects the philosophy of James’ site, then do me a favor. Log me out, change my password, and throw away the key. I don’t need to visit here.HRG
I think you mean Jon and not James. James hasn’t weighed in here yet.
If he’s smart, he won’t…
A little off topic, but at the beginning of HS hockey games, I love to see the young kids stop goofing around, remove their hats, turn towards the flag, and cover their hearts for the Anthem. Very cool to see!
Remember, these are only my opinions. There was a simple question. My answer simple. Remember the old saying…. “Anything worth doing is worth doing right.”. Want to fly a flag? Great! How hard is it to follow some simple rules? Any one who has spent time around me knows me as “What you see is what you get” My view of the word is pretty much black and white, right and wrong, there is not much in between. It appears I need to put a little more content behind my comment.
Flash back to the year 1976. I was a young kid during the Bi Centennial. The 200 year birthday of the United States. There was a LOT of Flag waving that year. Not uncommon to see flag shirts, flag hats, flag pants, flags painted on water towers, Harly tanks, VW bugs. you get the picture.
I was a 13 years old kid with long hair, a skate board and a t-shirt that looked like it was cut out of a flag. Probably right off the rack from Sears or K-mart back then. Again, pretty common T-shirt. Walking towards home one day during summer break from school. Couple houses down from where I lived a neighbor walked up to me and in one clean motion tore that shirt clean off my body and bitch slapped me up side the head. Turned around and walked away. That guy was a Vietnam Vet who obviously would have nothing of it. Lesson learned. Back then most neighborhood kids got smacked around by pissed off adults. Just the way it was. Some of you may remember…???? Anyway, never thought much about it. Never wore any flag clothes again. Lesson learned, life went on.
Fast forward to 1981. Fresh out of high school. Still a kid who wanted to see the world. Signed up for the Marine Corps. Off I went. Boot camp, radio school, off to Okinawa for a year then landed at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. During my stint there I “volunteered” (All you x marines know what I mean) for Flag Duty. This was a 30 day assignment to raise and lower the flag at the main entrance to the base. Probably the biggest reason for the assignment was me replacing a guy with the same general height/weigh/build so I fit into the set of Dress Blues you needed to wear to perform the twice daily duty. Lucky me. How hard could this be?
Summer 1984. Long days, Early sunrise, late sunsets. There were 6-8 of us rotating in and out. Up at 03:30 hours (3:30am). Dress for inspection. Load up from the barracks to the bus, run out to the front gates. Formation and a very specific set of duties to get that flag up each day. Many days there were visitor at the gate area. High ranking Marines, politicians, VIPs to observe. No f-ups allowed. None. Quickly learned this was a big deal! That was pretty much ensured by 3-4 hours a day practicing and studying that code DT posted. We were quizzed daily on every single rule in that code. By the end of that 30 days, I had it memorized! 30 days of standing at attention 3-4 hours a day in the summer North Carolina heat raising and lowering the flag at our barracks. Then late evenings performing the lowering. End the day 1030 – 11pm during the summer. Repeat.
No complaints. There was a lot of hard jobs before flag duty and a lot after. Point was I learned a lot about the flag then. Gained a lot of respect for the history and traditions. And on the last day of flag duty, standing at attention saluting the dropping flag to the sound of taps playing over the PA, I remember a long long hair 13 year old kid and a pissed off vet. I had a lump in my throat and pride bursting from my dress blues.
-J.
Well said JJ.
I have read through this entire post and for what its worth here is how I feel about it.
I appreciate the fact that many want to display their love for this country and their appreciation of what many have given for that old flag to still be flying.
the flag has rules and an etiquette that needs to be adhered to,why??
for one,the flag deserves it as it represents everything that it cost to keep it.
two,if we give into,well,its okay to fly it without being lit and it becomes accepted,what other part of the etiquette gets allowed to be infringed on next??
and the one after that??
too soon if allowed to continue all of the rules and etiquette will be tossed to the wayside leaving the flag without the respect she deserves.
will I be upset that you fly your flag without being lit?? yes as its saying to me that your rules are better than part of the rules that are there for her.
I do appreciate the fact you want to fly her high and proud,just be proud of what she represents to the fullest even if it means you now have to put a light up to shine on it,many lights dont cost as much as what the flag does concerning the purchase price depending on the size of the flag.
I also believe that if you have the time and strength to raise her to her glory,then you certainly have the time to take her back down and fold her properly.
by taking the flag down each day,it gives you a chance to inspect it thoroughly and replace it if needed and then dispose of the old one properly.
If your going to one of these guys who flys a flag to find your “shack easier” what’s wrong with lighting it up? You probably already have a strobe and led lights. Get a spot light. Draw a little more attention to your selves.
we all get to make choices, I can live with mine. I love seeing it right where it is when I get up in the morning.
If your going to one of these guys who flys a flag to find your “shack easier” what’s wrong with lighting it up? You probably already have a strobe and led lights. Get a spot light. Draw a little more attention to your selves.
Everyone has articulated their positions very well. Based on this, and knowing that I am wrong to fly the American Flag in the manner I do as a simple way to incorporate my love for my country and the men who served without a light at night I have changed my ignorant ways. Because few actually think about flying the flag anyway whilst set up on the ice I can accomplish my secondary objectives by not flying the American flag at all. This will be the norm anyway so no big deal as I seriously doubt anyone will drive by and think, it’s too bad he doesn’t fly the American flag but then again, he probably doesn’t have a light. Starting at the Perch Extravaganza I will simply assemble my flagpole and strobe and only fly the Green Bay Packer flag instead. Actually at Redfest I bought a Trump 2020 flag, that might even get more attention! It still will make some people upset however but I can deal with that. Maybe one day I can find a light that works all night and is convenient to set up as I am not getting any younger. I have safely and respectfully removed my flag out of my wheel house so there will not be any temptation to ignore the rules. Because it’s a really nice larger, embroidered flag it will eventually be my main flag at the house when it needs replacing.
Thank everyone for their service.
I’m honestly not sure which side I’m on here.
Do I think the flag deserves respect? Yes. Do I think people should stand for the national anthem? Yes. Do I think our military members deserve the utmost respect and appreciation? Yes.
But telling a guy he shouldn’t fly the American Flag on his fish house because it doesn’t have a spot light on it? I dunno. Where do you draw the line? What about the cheap little flags my kids play with on the 4th of July?
Are these “rules” backed by “laws”?
FLY IT DAVID ! ! not laws fishblood. what about all these little flags. we put out about 200 at an event and they stay there for 4 days.
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No laws…
So this is a discussion about throwing back big sunfish essentially.
Or how close is too close…
Good luck
There used to laws against violating the Flag Code. However some bumbazz decided it was a good idea to burn the US FLag as a protest. The Supreme Court ruled this action as free speech. The ruling stands today.
I’ll re-post the link DT put up with the code:
http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html
Iowaboy touched on one point that should be mentioned. How to properly dispose of a Flag that needs to be replaced.
All unfit flags can be dropped off at any VFW post for proper disposal.
Peace, and God Bless America!
-J.
You can also talk to your local Boy Scout chapter, I know some of them will take flags and go through the proper way to dispose of them to educate the scouts.
Dave Anderson,
Let me ask you a question.
Have you ever served in the Military?
Simple yes or no answer here. The answer is important.
-J.
The answer is in no way important. The military does not own the flag nor does your offense to something matter any more than anybody else.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>David Anderson wrote:</div>
I have a lot more issues to deal with than whether my flag is lit at night.<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
My question is…..is it better to actually fly a flag or worry about not following the proper rules?If you choose to fly the flag, it’s important to follow the rules.
For a lot of us who have served, it is considered rather disrespectful not to.
Here’s an analogy. You are in a parking lot and see someone pull into the handicap spot, no plate or card to indicate they are disabled. Then they jump out of the parked car and sprint into the store. Basically telling the world “I don’t friggin care about the rules, I’m in a hurry here”.
Will I go and say anything to that person? Probably not.
Will I think to myself “Hey, that guy is a …..”
-J.
Uhh one is a law that is enforced. The other is a code that holds no real authority.
Now before anybody gets all uptight. I take my flag down at night because it’s not sufficiently lit. Not out of respect to any particular person other than my Grandpa because I remember him doing it. WW2, Korea, Vietnam vet. Annoyed every night until my Dad hooked some lights up for him
The answer is in no way important. The military does not own the flag nor does your offense to something matter any more than anybody else.
I never said the answer was important to the military. The answer is important to me. It tells me a lot about the way someone would answer a question or consider how to handle a particular situation. It also tell me a lot about one’s character.
-J. 
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