Unwritten Rules on WOT on P4?

The waterways of the U.S. are meant to be enjoyed by everyone, either in a kayak, or a 25’+ boat (within natural safety). It is irresponsible to put others in danger no matter the size of their watercraft.

I see the argument that those with small boats should stay home… They have every right to be on the water that the bigger boats do. If the big boats do not wanna go slow and drive safely, they are the ones who should stay home.

But realistically, that won’t happen, so the best thing is to play nice together, so everyone can enjoy the water. It’s all common sense and consideration for others. Just because someone has a small boat, they are not less entitled to be out there. Treat them with respect and be concerned about their safety by your actions.

Safety is the number one concern, so don’t complain because you can’t own the river with your 300hp motor and swamping little boats. If you have to go slow, that’s what you do. Safety trumps your desire to go fast, so if you can’t handle going slow, or respecting other boats, you should be the one to move or find another river for the day. Plenty of miles of rivers around that hold fish, were no boats even come close to.

cougareye wrote:

What’s the solution, that the entire St. Croix go no wake to accommodate my boat?

Classic warping of the argument. I will remind you the premise of my thoughts have nothing to do with pleasure boating and thoroughfares. It is focused on fellow brother fishermen sharing a small area by the dam. For you to expand this to major thoroughfares and non-fishermen is disingenuous at best…I already expressed my complete understanding and acceptance of Tuna Boats earlier. To use this statement means you have not listened very well to this point.

Well, I think we have about beat this topic to death. It is clear that some people are more considerate than others. It really comes down to that. I presented a solid argument for common courtesy in special situations and others just want the world to revolve around themselves. Karma; she can be a $%&!@.

raynestorm wrote:

Safety is the number one concern, so don’t complain because you can’t own the river with your 300hp motor and swamping little boats. If you have to go slow, that’s what you do. Safety trumps your desire to go fast, so if you can’t handle going slow, or respecting other boats, you should be the one to move or find another river for the day.

OMG, common sense. And from Wisconsin no less. Impressive! lol! Thanks for the sage input. Some of us also the kind of guys that if you pull up to us and ask “What are they biting on?”, I will tell you exactly what is and is not working for me. Why? I want everyone to have a good time. What do I care if I catch 1 or 100 fish. I’m usually there for the eagles, the company of a friend or family member, eat a few snacks, tell a few off color jokes, get a little sun, and see if I can possibly get even 1% of my obsessive amount of fishing tackle wet and working.

raynestorm wrote:

The waterways of the U.S. are meant to be enjoyed by everyone, either in a kayak, or a 25’+ boat (within natural safety). It is irresponsible to put others in danger no matter the size of their watercraft.

I see the argument that those with small boats should stay home… They have every right to be on the water that the bigger boats do. If the big boats do not wanna go slow and drive safely, they are the ones who should stay home.

This is exactly correct. And more to the point, it is absolutely the obligation of the operator of any watercraft to make sure the way he operates does NOT endanger others.

There is no * exception to this that says, “Unless you’ve got a 20+ foot Ranger with a 300 on the back and they other people are in a canoe, then you’re off the hook because they shouldn’t be out there.”

It’s not always possible or feasible to avoid disturbances, but it is absolutely possible to avoid endangering others in crowded and confined areas. I’m one of those “tuna boat” guys on some weekends and I absolutely slow down to no wake or even stop whenever I feel that my wake may ENDANGER someone in another craft.

It doesn’t matter to me that they’re in a little 20 foot Ranger with only 300 HP on the back and probably shouldn’t be out there in the first place in their puny low rider when the big boys are trying to use the river. I still slow down if they’re going to be at risk in those little bling boats.

Grouse

If your concerned for your safety, then i do think you need to avoid the area.
If your concerned about waves making boat control more difficult, i’d say look around and see what others are doing to enjoy their day under the same circumstances.

I try to never be a “Victim”. This is one of those cases.
Being a victim never solves anything. Finding ways to adapt to the situation is a much better path.

It is expected to find p4 obnoxiously busy if that is something you are not used to. Most that come back and fish religiously though, find ways to work with the situation and find success.
Again, no reason you shouldn’t be disappointed with status quo…But there are many suggestions on here as to how to adapt.

JD Winston wrote:

Classic warping of the argument. I will remind you the premise of my thoughts have nothing to do with pleasure boating and thoroughfares. It is focused on fellow brother fishermen sharing a small area by the dam. For you to expand this to major thoroughfares and non-fishermen is disingenuous at best

Classic assumption that your point is the correct one! Thus any other idea be warped!

Look, I’m a nice guy, well that’s what most tell me anyway. My thought process is not that I’m in a bigger boat thus I can do what I want. I don’t think that way.

My idea is that when all of us as boaters put our boat in the water, we have to assess the risk of doing so. Is the water shallow, have submerged obstructions, is the current manageable, what other vessels will I encounter, will I be exposed to wind and waves, etc.

And people have to be comfortable with those risks on a day to day basis. You cannot control the action of other boaters, mother nature, and natural obstructions. You can only make a decision as to whether you are comfortable accessing that waterway.

No amount of internet banter is going to make P4 waveless in the spring. Thus you and only you need to consider what risk that poses to your boat and well being.

ET

Courtesy is not a rule or a law. It is an understanding between men that looks out for each other so that all are safe and having fun. This spirit is what separates us from the French. You don’t want to be like the French, do you? Peace brothers.

Are the Lakes open yet?

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

those little bling boats

Grouse, you crack me up. And I should have mentioned that from time to time when I’m near the channel on the can line, I DO see some Tuna Boats slow down for me and thank you! It makes a difference.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Are the Lakes open yet?

As for you BK, you put the Crap back in Crap pie fishing with that unhelpful comment. lol! Speaking of, think I will hit Waconia or Lake Sarah this weekend and chase some crappies. I suspect those little buggers are getting closer to staging now and moving out from the deeper basins.

JD Winston wrote:

I get it, you have a big boat with plenty of gusto and you’re in a hurry to move out of that one fishing hole you’re not catching anything in to another you won’t catch anything in (because of wake-induced Karma). But when I’m sitting in my low sided jon boat on Pool 4, do you really need to run WOT just 20-50 yards from the rest of us that are fishing? Any “unwritten” rules about being kind to other people fishing when we are all in tight quarters on P4? Just a friendly reminder that not all of us have a 90 inch+ beam.

She..oot, I only have a 25HP Yammy and I even slow to no wake speeds when anywhere near another boat…Really, what’s the hurry? Am I too sensitive?

I’d rather have them run past at WOT and put up a little wake vs thinking they are being courteous and slowing down just enough to put out a HUGE wake. Nobody is going to crawl past at an idle.

JD Winston wrote:

This spirit is what separates us from the French. You don’t want to be like the French, do you?

Woody, I’m going to steal your girlfriend…………….

What if I’m gay? You still want “her”? [crickets] lol

JD Winston wrote:

John Schultz wrote:
I don’t want to sound like a dick

Well, you kinda do sound like that BUT no one said I was “mad”. And I appreciate your opinion. But suggesting that I get a larger boat…for what is essentially the bay of a river…is a little silly. Just my opinion. My jon is 18 feet and I don’t ever worry about tipping. I just see guys coming from down below the dam WOT up until just about the top wing dam and then slamming on the “brakes”.

My point was never that I thought anyone should get a bigger boat. My point on boat size was that when you have a 12 or 14 foot boat with no freeboard, you need to realize that a saturday afternoon in late March may not be the best time to put it between the Y and the dam. It’s going to be wavy, just plain and simple.

I also never said I thought it was cool to fly up through the masses by the dam. Personally, I don’t even go up to the dam because it is too congested.

The point I was trying to make, which I didn’t do obviously, is that you can’t expect everyone to idle around the river because there are a few small boats out there. It just won’t happen. You can’t even get guys to obey the no wake zones. I don’t advocate being careless and swamping small boats, and I don’t do that. I’m just being realistic.

Is there really a noticeable difference in the size of a wake if somebody goes by you at 50 yards as opposed to 150 yards? You get a pretty similar wake, just takes a bit longer to get there.

Under normal circumstances, if it isn’t a posted no-wake, you can’t expect everyone to go at idle any more than a guy in a 20 foot boat can expect there to be no small boats he needs to be looking out for.

I never meant to say that when there are 300 boats from the third wing dam to the scour hole you should fly through there, but if there are only 50 from the y to the dam, you shouldn’t have to idle either. You can drive on plane and be courteous, and you don’t need to use all 300 horses to do it.

John Schultz wrote:

The point I was trying to make, which I didn’t do obviously, is that you can’t expect everyone to idle around the river because there are a few small boats out there. It just won’t happen.

Not with that attitude Mr. poopy pants. hah! j/k

Seriously, I hear you John and respect your thoughts and appreciate your input. Apologies if I misquoted or misrepresented your thoughts. I think I was mixing up your thoughts with CougarEye’s thoughts. I think all that matters really is that we hear and understand each other, let that seep in our minds for a while and then decide what is best for us individually.

Who knows, you may have convinced me that since no one else will change, I may as well go out and get a 300HP glass boat and just ‘bust a move’ near all the traffic at P4 and laugh in a maniacal manner (inside my head only as doing so out loud would be rude and inconsiderate and after all, I’m not French) as I can only imagine what made them think that March on Pool 4 was within their miserable short free-boarding reach. But it will all be OK because a saved a few minutes in my day from being wasted and that puts me on more fish. That I will probably just release anyway.

John Schultz wrote:

Is there really a noticeable difference in the size of a wake if somebody goes by you at 50 yards as opposed to 150 yards? You get a pretty similar wake, just takes a bit longer to get there.

And yes, there is a big difference. Come fishing with me and I’ll let you be the judge. Long swells are nothing to worry about…it’s the short and high ones that suck the worst. I feel like a Mr. T bobble head doll in the dash of a springless and shockless 1969 “three on a tree” pickup truck bouncing down the springtime rutted dirt roads of rural Alabama.

JD Winston wrote:

a springless and shockless 1969 “three on a tree” pickup truck

I learned to drive in one of those. Probably why I’m a dick.

You’re not a dick John. It’s just that your big boat makes it seem you are compensating for a small one. Lol! J/k

Let’s go out fishing in your boat on pool 4 this weekend and scare the children in Jon boats!

This thread reminds me of one trip to P4 about 9 years ago.
I put my Ranger 618 tiller in at the landing on 63 in the Wisconsin channel. The water was kind of low but I know that there is about 3′ between the channel markers and I will be okay as long as I stay on plane until I get to the main channel. When I get near the exit of the WI channel there is a 14 or 16′ shallow V-hull anchored right next to the last channel marker. I drove past, on plane because coming off of plane would have meant hitting the bottom, as far away from him as I could, which was only about 20′ or so.
What should I have done ?

pale ryder wrote:

This thread reminds me of one trip to P4 about 9 years ago.
I put my Ranger 618 tiller in at the landing on 63 in the Wisconsin channel. The water was kind of low but I know that there is about 3′ between the channel markers and I will be okay as long as I stay on plane until I get to the main channel. When I get near the exit of the WI channel there is a 14 or 16′ shallow V-hull anchored right next to the last channel marker. I drove past, on plane because coming off of plane would have meant hitting the bottom, as far away from him as I could, which was only about 20′ or so.
What should I have done ?

You did nothing wrong. If a person fishes in the channel, they should expect people going by at WOT. That’s kind of like getting mad at someone for driving to close to you when you are fishing near the docks in the back channel. The channel itself is only 40′ wide at best.

That’s just life on the river and comes with the territory fishing some spots on pool 4. A guy just needs to accept it.

pale ryder wrote:

What should I have done ?

Well, this is a little silly but I’ll give you a reaction bite:

A) The premise of my story is very different than yours so don’t look for me to apply the same standards.

B) Seems like you knew the water was low before you launched. You did not leave yourself any room for escape possibly knowing this was a popular spot for other fishermen to fish. You could have anticipated that it might be a possibility before you got there.

c) There are other launches, no? Perhaps ones that leave you with better options?

d) Did you even think what would happen if the water dropped while you were out fishing about how you would get in if the water was down another foot or two? Happened to me at Everts last Saturday night. Pulled up to the left of the ramps at midnight and barely got my jon boat up to shore. I looked at the Army Corp Web site the next day to find they closed the rollers some while we were out there and the water levels dropped significantly.

I suppose on a lighter side, you could have done the following:

1) Give him the Captain Morgan salute with knee high in the air and salute crisp and sharp.

2) Give him a stern look like this is all HIS fault for being where the fish are.

3) and my favorite, As you roar by yell out, “You gave my wife the clap you bast#$@!”

The big point of this thread: There are always things you can’t help or change. Someone pointed out in this thread that there are inherent risks in any trip to the river; rocks, low water, cold water, other boaters, wind, weather, etc. If the wife is having a baby out there in the boat, time to WOT the heck outta there as safely as you can. But then there are things we can change. Not because we have to but because we still respect others.

Let’s not create additional risks by being semi reckless with WOT near large crowds of people in all sizes of boats. I cannot imagine how I would feel if some little kid fell into the river because of my actions. Even if the kid were wearing a PFD, the survival rate in those temps is not good. Even if the kid were guaranteed to live, I would feel horrible that the accident was partially my fault.

I am SUPER sorry if some folks feel this common courtesy is a major burden on your enjoyment of the river. But perhaps, just perhaps you are too singly focused on only one reward out there. You might be missing out on all the other rewards the river offers. I can’t be the only one that looks around at the comical crowded scene and does a little people watching. A father teaching his young son to fish. Brothers who haven’t seen each other in years. Buddies high fiving with buddies after a great fish is landed. The uncontrollable “Whoohooo!!!!” in the quiet dark as someone lands a monster walleye pitching blades to the shallows by a wing dam. An older son and his old man telling stories of trips past. And someone’s grand pappy making it out with his son’s son for perhaps the last time. These are just some of the people out there.

These moments, these observations create a Normal Rockwell type of nostalgia fostering in me an emotional satisfaction that, after 46 years young on planet Earth, is a rare treat in my otherwise mechanical life. It is why I go to pool 4.

Pick your head up, set down your rod and look around out there, listen. Just for 10 minutes. A lot more is happening besides catching fish. And you won’t see it happening at WOT.

dang after all this banter I’m happy I have not made the trip to P4 yet. I didn’t know when the waters low you have to go through the channel on plane or you hit bottom!?

TripleA wrote:

dang after all this banter I’m happy I have not made the trip to P4 yet. I didn’t know when the waters low you have to go through the channel on plane or you hit bottom!?

Only in some areas, the main channel is always 12′ deep. I was in the Wisconsin channel.
You can fish in almost any conditions, but if the water is low, some landings get too shallow.

JD Winston wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>pale ryder wrote:</div>
What should I have done ?

Well, this is a little silly but I’ll give you a reaction bite:

A) The premise of my story is very different than yours so don’t look for me to apply the same standards.

B) Seems like you knew the water was low before you launched. You did not leave yourself any room for escape possibly knowing this was a popular spot for other fishermen to fish. You could have anticipated that it might be a possibility before you got there.

c) There are other launches, no? Perhaps ones that leave you with better options?

d) Did you even think what would happen if the water dropped while you were out fishing about how you would get in if the water was down another foot or two? Happened to me at Everts last Saturday night. Pulled up to the left of the ramps at midnight and barely got my jon boat up to shore. I looked at the Army Corp Web site the next day to find they closed the rollers some while we were out there and the water levels dropped significantly.

I suppose on a lighter side, you could have done the following:

1) Give him the Captain Morgan salute with knee high in the air and salute crisp and sharp.

2) Give him a stern look like this is all HIS fault for being where the fish are.

3) and my favorite, As you roar by yell out, “You gave my wife the clap you bast#$@!”

The big point of this thread: There are always things you can’t help or change. Someone pointed out in this thread that there are inherent risks in any trip to the river; rocks, low water, cold water, other boaters, wind, weather, etc. If the wife is having a baby out there in the boat, time to WOT the heck outta there as safely as you can. But then there are things we can change. Not because we have to but because we still respect others.

Let’s not create additional risks by being semi reckless with WOT near large crowds of people in all sizes of boats. I cannot imagine how I would feel if some little kid fell into the river because of my actions. Even if the kid were wearing a PFD, the survival rate in those temps is not good. Even if the kid were guaranteed to live, I would feel horrible that the accident was partially my fault.

I am SUPER sorry if some folks feel this common courtesy is a major burden on your enjoyment of the river. But perhaps, just perhaps you are too singly focused on only one reward out there. You might be missing out on all the other rewards the river offers. I can’t be the only one that looks around at the comical crowded scene and does a little people watching. A father teaching his young son to fish. Brothers who haven’t seen each other in years. Buddies high fiving with buddies after a great fish is landed. The uncontrollable “Whoohooo!!!!” in the quiet dark as someone lands a monster walleye pitching blades to the shallows by a wing dam. An older son and his old man telling stories of trips past. And someone’s grand pappy making it out with his son’s son for perhaps the last time. These are just some of the people out there.

These moments, these observations create a Normal Rockwell type of nostalgia fostering in me an emotional satisfaction that, after 46 years young on planet Earth, is a rare treat in my otherwise mechanical life. It is why I go to pool 4.

Pick your head up, set down your rod and look around out there, listen. Just for 10 minutes. A lot more is happening besides catching fish. And you won’t see it happening at WOT.

A) I know, and I wasn’t trying to excuse rude boating. I tend to agree with you and I generally run at no-wake speed in busy areas.
B)I’ve never seen anyone there before or since.
C)It didn’t occur to me to land the boat and re-launch at another landing on the off chance that someone might want to fish in a narrow navigation channel.
D)I didn’t think of that possibility then, I might now.

Darn, I should have gone with option 3.

Again, I generally agree that we should be respectful of others, and I slow down to no wake for busy areas. But I don’t slow down every time that I get within 50 yards of another boat.

TripleA wrote:

dang after all this banter I’m happy I have not made the trip to P4 yet. I didn’t know when the waters low you have to go through the channel on plane or you hit bottom!?

Most of the rivers I fish through the summer you will. These guys can have 4 to theirselves in the spring.

Mn law has said for years you are responsible for your wake. I see they have it worded different this year but it is still along the same lines on page 30.

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Ah ha! The smoking gun!

I don’t see a smoking gun.
I see a vaguely worded law that essentially means that you are to operate your boat in a reasonable manor. It does not mean that your wake can’t affect anyone in any way.
I believe that reasonable applies to all rules and laws.
So, endangering others means endangering people who are acting in a reasonable way. In this case it means that they are in a boat that is safe for the area they are boating. A 10′ pram with 6″ free board is safe in a small stream or lake but it is not a reasonable boat to use in a high traffic or large lake or river.

And harassment means to operate your boat with the intent of bothering others. Like repeatedly driving past someone for no good reason or to make an unreasonably large wake.

I’m not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that is what the rules mean.

JD, I hear where you’re coming from but then I consider the area in reference. I don’t think it matters what boat size one has, he needs to understand that in a relatively small area you’re going to find MANY boaters, many of whom have probably a very limited amount of experience. Some simply won’t give a rip how their boating actions affect others while some honestly probably don’t have a clue but mean no ill intent with their boat handling. If you are going to go there to fish, expect surprises. I too have a jon boat, but I also know and understand my limits and limitations once in the boat. Personally I don’t give a rip about the walleye fishing when the spawn is on and choose not to get involved in it with my boat.

With all the banter here about the dam and huge fish being handy to catch its surprising that more people and boats aren’t there than there is on any given day.

All this talk about being a dick on p4 makes me want to get an airboat.

This is not in response to any previous post, just some observations from Saturday afternoon.

Saturday was crazy busy with boats of all sizes. I was in a 21′ boat (not mine) and we had four guys in a good sized boat come flying through a group of boats at WOT (not at controlled 2/3 throttle) when they could have easily gone around. The spray from their boat hit the side of ours!! Wow.

I also saw several boats slow down in high traffic areas. The majority of them did not slow to no wake, they slowed to plow speed, throwing off the biggest wake possible.

If anything changes the way I drive on P4 in the future, it will be to watch for the jon type boats and make sure I’m not throwing a huge wake. I do slow down and enjoy the ‘moments’ on P4, for me it’s bird watching, especially the eagles and waterfowl.

ET

Hey ET, thanks for the report. Comical I guess. Thanks for taking the time to look around and enjoy more than just the fishing.