UAW contract…..Yikes!

Kraig5858 wrote:

I believe the Pres. salary of $400,000 is the highest paid elected official in the Federal Gov. of the United States.

And his crackhead kid has a $15,000 rental per month… Blinders on.

Seems like the UAW did pretty dang good for their people. Didn’t get all of every single thing they initially demanded, but we all knew it was a starting point for bargaining. (32 hr work week had a lot of guys here pretty miffed, surprise surprise it didn’t make it through.)

Was happy to see part of the deal was re-opening some plants as well.

Ford exec on the radio said the whole thing would probably translate to approx $900 increase per vehicle in terms of sticker price. That’s not gonna be a deal breaker for anybody who can afford a new vehicle, and for those who finance will barely be felt in their monthly payment.

Ford exec on the radio said the whole thing would probably translate to approx $900 increase per vehicle in terms of sticker price. That’s not gonna be a deal breaker for anybody who can afford a new vehicle, and for those who finance will barely be felt in their monthly payment.
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You know that won’t mean $900 on a new truck. It will be 4 or 5 hundred on the low end vehicles and $1400 to $1900 on a high end vehicles. (Trucks)

Retail is getting soft, the automakers will start to feel it in 6-12 months and then they can lay the workers off again.

Record wage increase… meanwhile automakers are predicted to lose billions in making electric vehicles.. wonder where they cut first ?

MX1825 wrote:

$1400 to $1900 on a high end vehicles. (Trucks)

Don’t think I’d classify a truck as a high end vehicle. That would be the Mustang and the Lincoln line of vehicles.

Regardless…

Okay, so here’s a good time to compare because there were a lot of hysterics around what the UAW was “demanding” in this contract. Let’s look at what really was negotiated when the dust settled.

– 32 hour workweek. Didn’t happen. No substantial changes to work hours.

– 46% raise (over the term of the contract). Didn’t happen. UAW members get a roughly 25% raise over the 4.5-year length of the contract which works out to 5.5% per year. There were other changes to COLA, OT, and bonus structures that, on average, may give some UAW members more like 6%.

– Lots of terms and conditions changes. Very difficult to assess what the financial impacts are of these, some the UAW wanted, some the automakers wanted. Probably a small win for the UAW overall due to the restart of idle production facilities and expanded UAW presence in non-union battery joint ventures. But lots of TBD on what the real changes are. Either way, these don’t add money to UAW member’s paychecks.

So as usual, the hysterical predictions of the end of the American economy due to lazy workers demanding too much pay didn’t happen. It’s almost like these “demands” are all part of negotiating or something.

onestout wrote:

Retail is getting soft, the automakers will start to feel it in 6-12 months and then they can lay the workers off again.

Not sure where you’re getting this. Retail is only soft if you’re comparing it against the mania that was Crazed COVID Spending where consumers went on an absolute bender. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that kind of drunken sailor consumer behavior to last.

US retail sales have increased every month since last April with the trend strengthening in recent months. August and September posted the biggest increases of the year so far.

US GDP has also been up every quarter this year, with Q3 again seeing the largest increase of the year thus far.

US durable goods orders jumped 4.7% in September and October is also forecast to be up a similar amount.

Unemployment remains at record lows and has varied only by a tenth of a percent month to month all year. Currently, unemployment is at 3.8%. There is debate as to what figure represents essentially full employment because there are many, many more jobs available than the total number of unemployed.

big_g wrote:

Record wage increase… meanwhile automakers are predicted to lose billions in making electric vehicles.. wonder where they cut first ?

I saw last week that the FOrd Lightning has stopped production and Ford was pulling them from dealer lots. DIdnt read the full details but I believe its due to range issues or other factors. I see pictures of a lightning daily with a generator in the bed of the truck charging it. EV is not the way to go. There was also a graphic and I know it was contested on this site before about the real cost of “per gallon” charge for EVs, but just last week it was published that an EV effect $ per gallon cost is around $17. Not all of that is the owners cost, much of it falls on the rest of us tax payers with infrastructure and many other related items.

gimruis wrote:

Don’t think I’d classify a truck as a high end vehicle. That would be the Mustang and the Lincoln line of vehicles.

A half ton truck costs more than a mustang these days. Price one out!

Well said Grouse. The UAW contract negotiations in summary ended with modest gains for workers that are not outside the norm of what most American Workers have received in recent years. If you have not been given a raise similar to that or taken a raise in recent years, that’s on you and your ability to market yourself.

And yes, to emphasize retail/the economy as a whole hasn’t tanked or anything along those lines. It has regressed in some regards towards slower inflation or spending, but the sky has not fallen. I think we will reach a point where things cool further, but consumers are still spending money at a pretty good clip. Is this because they “have” the money, or because it’s an addictive habit that was supported with Covid spending policies and stimulus money? …time will tell.

This theory is also widely supported by watching interest rates. They aren’t going anywhere towards the rates of a few years ago any time soon. Those were artificially low. If the economy can keep cooking at today’s rates, it’s evidence that these rates are closer to an equilibrium point than the crazy low rates were.

US retail sales have increased every month since last April with the trend strengthening in recent months. August and September posted the biggest increases of the year so far.

US GDP has also been up every quarter this year, with Q3 again seeing the largest increase of the year thus far.

US durable goods orders jumped 4.7% in September and October is also forecast to be up a similar amount.
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You do understand that the only reasons these numbers are up is because inflation. Just because GDP is up does not mean we are doing better. If the items cost what they should in volume we are actually down. The Fed rate is predicted to take another raise and then flatten out starting to retreat in 2025, and you know when it retreats what that is called recession!

supercat wrote:

You do understand that the only reasons these numbers are up is because inflation.

That is not correct. None of these indicators go up because of inflation.

In the long term, strong retail sales, strong durable goods orders, and low unemployment can have an inflationary effect on the economy. Huge executive bonuses, large stock price gains, and many, many other factors also impact inflation.

CaptainMusky wrote:

A half ton truck costs more than a mustang these days. Price one out!

You’re right. 2024 base models:
Mustang – about $31,000
F-150 – about $39,000

The highest end 2024 models are very similar.
Mustang – about $90,000
F-150 – about $84,000

Guess I didn’t realize the similarities in cost of these two Ford models.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

That is not correct. None of these indicators go up because of inflation.

Does inflation affect real GDP?
Due to inflation, GDP increases and does not actually reflect the true growth in an economy. That is why the GDP must be divided by the inflation rate (raised to the power of units of time in which the rate is measured) to get the growth of the real GDP.

Target, walmart, Best Buy aren’t starting all the holiday sales early because the economy is robust.

gimruis wrote:

You’re right. 2024 base models:
Mustang – about $31,000
F-150 – about $39,000

The highest end 2024 models are very similar.
Mustang – about $90,000
F-150 – about $84,000

Guess I didn’t realize the similarities in cost of these two Ford models.

Now jump over and look at actual luxury trucks like the GMC Denali Ultimate and see where its at and your head will explode. Its an unreal truck but good lord these prices are way more than my first mortgage.

Dutchboy wrote:

Target, walmart, Best Buy aren’t starting all the holiday sales early because the economy is robust.

Random Unrelated Question: How is Best Buy still a thing?

I legitimately haven’t stepped foot in one in ~10 years and could not even tell you where one is located anymore.

Can’t blame the UAW for starting their demands for pay raises along the lines of what the executives have already gotten.

Ongo wrote:

Can’t blame the UAW for starting their demands for pay raises along the lines of what the executives have already gotten.

I agree, but most here seem to disagree. I guess because it’s union they don’t care or something. Not sure. And they keep bringing up how they are loosing huge dollars due to electric vehicles hmmmm doesn’t sound like a workers issue, sounds like the ceo needs to take the cut then.

Actually in my opinion, if you get record wages when companies make record profits, then you take record paycuts when they lose record $$$. Has nothing to do with union or not. Record profits are from pent up demand and raising prices about $15k per model during/after covid and now with the record wage increases, no chance of the price to the consumer coming back down. Not that it would have anyways, but it sure as heck won’t now !

big_g wrote:

Actually in my opinion, if you get record wages when companies make record profits, then you take record paycuts when they lose record $$$. Has nothing to do with union or not. Record profits are from pent up demand and raising prices about $15k per model during/after covid and now with the record wage increases, no chance of the price to the consumer coming back down. Not that it would have anyways, but it sure as heck won’t now !

Maybe that 1 guy should take a slight pay cut ? Sounds like that would help 1000s. And I’m not talking about the owner operator, just his top crew members. But that would suck for them, so we will just blame the average guy trying to live a middle class life.

I think that might have been the crux of the gripe by the UAW. They made concessions in 2008 renegotiating a 2007 contract so the companies could receive TARP bailout money. Those concessions were still in place when the strike started and the companies were making record profits.

I know this was not your point but I’m confused why anyone would be upset when a group of middle class workers get a good deal raising their standard of living….a rising tide raises all boats.

buckybadger wrote:

Random Unrelated Question: How is Best Buy still a thing?

I legitimately haven’t stepped foot in one in ~10 years and could not even tell you where one is located anymore.

I never go in Best Buy to shop, but their order online/pick up in store is great when I’m in a hurry and don’t want to wait 1-2 days for Amazon. Click and pick it up in an hour.

Also, it looks to me like a large % of their business come from the mobile phone counter. Watch people walk in and half of them head straight for the phones.

Now Target, there’s a company that’s totally lost. Why even call it Target? I call it “No Get”. Every time I go there, they’re out of stock on half of what I wanted. Target is just a half-@ss grocery store with generic trinkets and clothing on the side now.

Krh129 wrote:

I think that might have been the crux of the gripe by the UAW. They made concessions in 2008 renegotiating a 2007 contract so the companies could receive TARP bailout money. Those concessions were still in place when the strike started and the companies were making record profits.

I know this was not your point but I’m confused why anyone would be upset when a group of middle class workers get a good deal raising their standard of living….a rising tide raises all boats.

Not really as if everyone gets a 2% raise every year, your 2% doesn’t offset everyone elses and everyone loses in the end

big_g wrote:

Actually in my opinion, if you get record wages when companies make record profits, then you take record paycuts when they lose record $$$. Has nothing to do with union or not. Record profits are from pent up demand and raising prices about $15k per model during/after covid and now with the record wage increases, no chance of the price to the consumer coming back down. Not that it would have anyways, but it sure as heck won’t now !

X2
Comedian Bill Burr explains this perfect you want the good stuff but when it hits the fan not my problem pay me the same

big_g wrote:

Actually in my opinion, if you get record wages when companies make record profits, then you take record paycuts when they lose record $$$. Has nothing to do with union or not. Record profits are from pent up demand and raising prices about $15k per model during/after covid and now with the record wage increases, no chance of the price to the consumer coming back down. Not that it would have anyways, but it sure as heck won’t now !

No. If your wages are directly tied to the profits, then you will take a pay cut when the company doesn’t perform well. If your wages aren’t tied directly to the profits then you shouldn’t bear any responsibility for company performance, good or bad.

Record wages is a misleading way to describe it. Wages are always going up so they are always record wages. Record profits are a result of sh!itty wages.

It is record wage increases. Their wages are not tied to profits, profit sharing is. Actually, why wouldn’t a employee bear any responsibility for bad performance ? You realize employees can tank a company… no ? Record profits can be had, regardless of employee wages… the market dictates this.

big_g wrote:

It is record wage increases. Their wages are not tied to profits, profit sharing is. Actually, why wouldn’t an employee bear any responsibility for bad performance ? You realize employees can tank a company… no ? Record profits can be had, regardless of employee wages… the market dictates this.

If you go back and look through this thread it’s been claimed that the executives deserve the inflated pay because they are responsible for company success. Now you’re claiming that if the company performs poorly it’s the employees fault? Which is it?

I should point out that in practice, this is actually how it works. Company performs well, reward the executives. Company performs poorly, fire employees.

If the executives allow shoddy employees to ruin the company, pay up and get a better executive.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Okay, so here’s a good time to compare because there were a lot of hysterics around what the UAW was “demanding” in this contract. Let’s look at what really was negotiated when the dust settled.

I don’t think there was any Hysterics about what they ended up getting, it was about what they were Demanding. I think the often UAW contract negotiations are going to end up simply putting more and more workers out of a job. Auto manufactures are going to simply move more and more towards automation. Machines don’t keep asking for contract negotiations. Personally I’d prefer more workers making a fair livable wage that few workers making more than their skill and education level demands, just because of a union. Just my .02 worth.