UAW contract…..Yikes!

Whatever happens, I am not looking forward to having to get a new truck…. I read last week that you need to get a Lariat package or higher to get the 3.5Eco on an F150 for the 2024 models.

Dutchboy wrote:

Ford has more cash than the workers do.

Ironically, the cause of the strike.

Well they are a for profit company, not a non-profit.

Just like any business should do when they can’t get enough product out the door to meet the demand. Analyze all methods of outsourcing and or product simplization to be able to source it easier and have faster turnaround times. It’s pretty simple once you have everything squared away on the front end to let your vendors have a price war between each other trying to earn your business. The unions in this case prefer none of the above to occur while asking for a 32 hr work week so the big companies will be forced to look outside the box to get things done.

outsourcing is maybe fine, until its YOUR job getting outsourced.

Easy to say outsource it, but when you have billions invested in manufacturing facilities I am pretty sure they are not going to ship that work elsewhere.

bigstorm wrote:

Whatever happens, I am not looking forward to having to get a new truck…. I read last week that you need to get a Lariat package or higher to get the 3.5Eco on an F150 for the 2024 models.

not sure where you read that but the 3.5 will be available on XL,XLT,tremor and lariat models. you can go right on fords page and build it

Dutchboy wrote:

Ford Motor Company had 173,000 employees at the end of 2022.

And the CEO makes $22M/year, so according to Biggill they need to let him go, and distribute that salary to the employees. I’m sure that extra $131 per employee will resolve this dispute. Then they need to find someone as competent (or more) as the current CEO, but willing to work for 5x Ford’s average salary of $48,000, which I’m sure there will be a ton of very qualified applicants for this $240,000 job that has the livelihoods of 173k people at risk.

BigWerm wrote:

Then they need to find someone as competent (or more) as the current CEO, but willing to work for 5x Ford’s average salary of $48,000, which I’m sure there will be a ton of very qualified applicants for this $240,000 job that has the livelihoods of 173k people at risk.

That’s essentially how the federal government works and I would argue that agency directors have a very similar job that executives at a private company do. If they can do it, why can’t Ford, or any other private executive. God forbid they should try to live off 250k/year.

Out of curiosity I looked up the average UAW wage yesterday. i was surprised by what I found. Workers hired before the 2007 contract average about $33/hr plus pension, plus a really good health plan. Workers hired after the 2007 contract average only $17/hr, no pension, and a much less generous health plan. So the senior workers aren’t being totally honest about what’s really going on, but neither is mgt. Give the seniors a modest increase, and bring the juniors up to scale with the senior, but over a number of years(perhaps the length of the contract?).

gimruis wrote:

That’s essentially how the federal government works and I would argue that agency directors have a very similar job that executives at a private company do. If they can do it, why can’t Ford, or any other private executive. God forbid they should try to live of 250k/year.

No, that is not how the Federal Gov’t works. First of all they make way more (100’s, maybe even thousands, of fed gov’t employees make over 400k). Secondly when is the last time a federal agency went bankrupt? Or a department had the entire executive staff laid off? And when these top directors do leave, they go to consulting/lobbying firms and make even more, so no it’s not comparable, at all.

Personally I think it’s crazy what CEO’s/C Suite/Professional Athletes/Actors etc. etc. make, but for the most part they are doing it in a free market and should be entitled to maximize their worth. I have a much bigger problem with the size and bloat of government, which also enables the CEO pay thru bailouts, crony capitalism and protectionism.

BigWerm wrote:

No, that is not how the Federal Gov’t works. First of all they make way more (100’s, maybe even thousands, of fed gov’t employees make over 400k).

The highest paid federal employee is the president. He makes $400,000. There isn’t a single federal employee that makes more than that solely based on their taxpayer funded salary. Its all public information and anyone can see it.

I can’t argue against the rest your post though. Its bloated and needs a more stream lined way of operating. And its about to shut down in a week too barring some unforeseen compromise in Congress next week.

gimruis wrote:

The highest paid federal employee is the president. He makes $400,000. There isn’t a single federal employee that makes more than that solely based on their taxpayer funded salary. Its all public information and anyone can see it.

False. Fauci is the highest paid @ $480k, and that doesn’t count in his Pharma kickbacks. And he didn’t lose his job after the gain of function research he authorized got out and started a pandemic. How many CEO’s survive huge catastrophes in their industries? Anyway you can click around to whatever department you’d like, plenty of them at or around $400k, and some of them rightfully so like a VA Doctor for example.

http://www.federalpay.org/employees/top-100

REally makes you wonder how a politician who makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year when they take office can suddenly be worth multi-millions.

BigWerm wrote:

I’m sure that extra $131 per employee will resolve this dispute. Then they need to find someone as competent (or more) as the current CEO, but willing to work for 5x Ford’s average salary of $48,000, which I’m sure there will be a ton of very qualified applicants for this $240,000 job that has the livelihoods of 173k people shareholders and executives at risk.

Fixed it for you.

CaptainMusky wrote:

REally makes you wonder how a politician who makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year when they take office can suddenly be worth multi-millions.

Make me wonder even more that the only one being investigated about it is the guy who was already a Billionaire before getting into politics. There are many on both sides they should be taking a real close look at !!!!

BigWerm wrote:

False. Fauci is the highest paid @ $480k, and that doesn’t count in his Pharma kickbacks.

That’s why I specifically said “taxpayer funded salary” lol not counting side gigs. $480k is still quite a ways off from 22 mil.

There’s definitely companies and CEO’s that survived large bankruptcy style catastrophies. GM and Chrysler both took massive bailouts and they’re still here (I don’t think Ford took any bailouts). Ironically, that’s what this thread is all about too.

not sure where you read that but the 3.5 will be available on XL,XLT,tremor and lariat models. you can go right on fords page and build it
[/quote]

I read it on the Internet so it must be true, lol. Actually it was an article I read they day before they released the 2024 models. It seemed like a dumb move, glad it turned out to be wrong

Ford and all of the Big 3 have accepted plenty of government subsidies with open arms.

I am fine with the large automakers CEOs making the money they do if we want to preach capitalism and the open market, but people need to call a spade a spade and admit that the government has propped these businesses up time and time again. I’ll believe in them earning and deserving their absurd salaries when they do it without taxpayer funded subsidies.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>
That’s essentially how the federal government works and I would argue that agency directors have a very similar job that executives at a private company do. If they can do it, why can’t Ford, or any other private executive. God forbid they should try to live of 250k/year.

No, that is not how the Federal Gov’t works. First of all they make way more (100’s, maybe even thousands, of fed gov’t employees make over 400k). Secondly when is the last time a federal agency went bankrupt? Or a department had the entire executive staff laid off? And when these top directors do leave, they go to consulting/lobbying firms and make even more, so no it’s not comparable, at all.

Personally I think it’s crazy what CEO’s/C Suite/Professional Athletes/Actors etc. etc. make, but for the most part they are doing it in a free market and should be entitled to maximize their worth. I have a much bigger problem with the size and bloat of government, which also enables the CEO pay thru bailouts, crony capitalism and protectionism.

Some of the largest CEOs and crony capitalism go hand-in-hand. Part of the size and bloat of government is due to the lack of a free market, and us needing to be ready to line CEOs pockets or subsidize their businesses.

Your definition and my definition of “free market” are clearly different.

It’s known as privatization of profits, socialization of loss

BigWerm wrote:

I’m sure that extra $131 per employee will resolve this dispute. Then they need to find someone as competent (or more) as the current CEO, but willing to work for 5x Ford’s average salary of $48,000, which I’m sure there will be a ton of very qualified applicants for this $240,000 job that has the livelihoods of 173k people at risk.

What is your opinion is a fair annual earning for a CEO or executive?

fishthumper wrote:

Make me wonder even more that the only one being investigated about it is the guy who was already a Billionaire before getting into politics. There are many on both sides they should be taking a real close look at !!!!

Only one guy?

Sen. Bob Menendez indicted on federal bribery charges

No, that is not how the Federal Gov’t works. First of all they make way more (100’s, maybe even thousands, of fed gov’t employees make over 400k).

GS-15 pay is capped at level V of the Executive Schedule. Starting salary for a GS-15 employee is $117,518.00 per year at Step 1, with a maximum possible base pay of $152,771.00 per year at Step 10. Non-executive employees on the General Schedule (GS), for the most part, are subjected to pay cap, which equals the pay cap for political appointees and those on Level IV of the Executive Schedule. In 2023, this annual limit is $183,500.

biggill wrote:

What is your opinion is a fair annual earning for a CEO or executive?

Say 200 times the amount of the lowest paid employee? You want a raise, give them a raise.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/most-profitable-automakers/
Doesn’t look like the companies with UAW workers are doing that good

I believe the Pres. salary of $400,000 is the highest paid elected official in the Federal Gov. of the United States.

Non-Executive federal employees. Like not the head executive of all executives, or the head of the IRS. Regular federal employees.There are 15 appointed executives, appointed by the head executive.

buckybadger wrote:

Some of the largest CEOs and crony capitalism go hand-in-hand. Part of the size and bloat of government is due to the lack of a free market, and us needing to be ready to line CEOs pockets or subsidize their businesses.

Your definition and my definition of “free market” are clearly different.

I doubt it, I’m just saying the CEO pay is a result of the crony capitalism, so instituting some check on the end result doesn’t do anything to address the root of the problem.

biggill wrote:

What is your opinion is a fair annual earning for a CEO or executive?

Whatever the market dictates, with the caveat that the govt should not be gatekeeping competition aka crony capitalism. For your prior statement to be true, CEO Pay being a limiting factor on employee pay, there needs to be a free market that can compete and topple any industry that has bloated CEO/executive pay. The lack of true competition is what has led us to this current situation imo.