Can’t say it much better. Even as a hard core union guy I’m not nieve enough to think it’s one side or another to make a business function, its both. But for CEO’s to get what there getting. 
IMG_20230915_160800606-scaled.jpg
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Steven Krapfl wrote:</div>
I’m not union, and I got a 2% raise. Didn’t go on strike to get it, just came to work and that was what I was paid. I guess I don’t feel entitled to anything, other then working hard to keep my job.2% isnt much when inflation is 5 times that. We rarely get 3% for raises too, but you cannot keep up with the cost of living at this rate on those increases. Luckily last year I got a 14k raise for some reason, no idea why, which was outside of my annual review plus I now get bonuses that are typically 10% of my salary and sometimes more. Those come in handy but man they are taxed incessantly.
I agree. I think it’s funny, though, when democrats talk about the working class, they speak to the union workers. Since when has $100k been the median income for Americans? People talk about the top 10% make up 90% of America’s wealth, however, they neglect to mention if you make over $40k per year, you are in the top 10% of earners. Who the hell really thinks a 11.5% annual raise, when you are making way more then the average American worker, is realistic or “middle class”?
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Steven Krapfl wrote:</div>
I’m not union, and I got a 2% raise. Didn’t go on strike to get it, just came to work and that was what I was paid. I guess I don’t feel entitled to anything, other then working hard to keep my job.2% isnt much when inflation is 5 times that. We rarely get 3% for raises too, but you cannot keep up with the cost of living at this rate on those increases. Luckily last year I got a 14k raise for some reason, no idea why, which was outside of my annual review plus I now get bonuses that are typically 10% of my salary and sometimes more. Those come in handy but man they are taxed incessantly.
Your bonuses have more withholdings they are not taxed more unless the bonus puts you in a higher tax bracket. Just sayin.
I’d be really curious to see the breakdown on their demands, and how much actually goes on there checks? I look at the union I’m in and sure we get nice raises, but so does the union itself by raising working dues, and monthly dues etc…
I’d be really curious to see the breakdown on their demands, and how much actually goes on there checks? I look at the union I’m in and sure we get nice raises, but so does the union itself by raising working dues, and monthly dues etc…
I would like to see video of what they actually do during a day
So for clarification –
A person walks into one of the big 3 for a job. The union guy tells them how great of a deal it is to work there. they say “just look at this total package”.
You agree to work this many hours and you get paid this amount.
NOW – you don’t want to work those hours and want to get paid more. OK, got it.
Then you complain that the company makes record profits and the CEO is making bank? I’m just shaking my head at that thought process. Why did you take the job? You knew all this ahead of time.
Kinda like moving next to an airport, huh?
Unbelievable.
So for clarification –
A person walks into one of the big 3 for a job. The union guy tells them how great of a deal it is to work there. they say “just look at this total package”.
You agree to work this many hours and you get paid this amount.
NOW – you don’t want to work those hours and want to get paid more. OK, got it.Then you complain that the company makes record profits and the CEO is making bank? I’m just shaking my head at that thought process. Why did you take the job? You knew all this ahead of time.
Kinda like moving next to an airport, huh?
Unbelievable.
You also join knowing every three or however many years the package is up for negotiation. This is nothing new, this is the start of the negotiation. Nothing really to shake your head at. You don’t get a job thinking your income will never get better. That thought process makes me shake my head. Just like any employee of any business. People want better lives and want more income. That’s where the negotiation comes in. Lol I figured that’s pretty common sense. If a employer doesn’t want the employee to have a better living then the employer is trash.
You obviously are pretty anti union and I know lots of people that are. But the reasoning is typically pretty lame. We have our work, typically big commercial projects, government gigs, airports, travel ways. You guys have yours. What ever that may be.
So for clarification –
A person walks into one of the big 3 for a job. The union guy tells them how great of a deal it is to work there. they say “just look at this total package”.
You agree to work this many hours and you get paid this amount.
NOW – you don’t want to work those hours and want to get paid more. OK, got it.Then you complain that the company makes record profits and the CEO is making bank? I’m just shaking my head at that thought process. Why did you take the job? You knew all this ahead of time.
Kinda like moving next to an airport, huh?
Unbelievable.
Is the record profit due to UAW workers or the business model change?
They aren’t making as many vehicles and not offering the discounts like they used to
I have no dog in this fight but never wanted to work at a union job. My dad was UAW and in Maintenance at EMD in IL, which closed for good because GE took over the diesel locomotive market. Dad spent the middle part of his career complaining to friends and relatives about how the union protected all the lazy guys and he and the older guys ended up doing everything. No chance of getting rid of the useless ones. He spent the end of his complaining about Management while spending probably his last decade taking the whole place apart. I’ve worked for two electrical distributors for the last 31yrs. I started making deliveries and worked my way to Inside Sales and am an Industrial Controls Expert now. When I was a driver, IBEW workers in Chicago treated me like garbage on jobsites, and Teamsters wouldn’t have pi$$ed on me if I was on fire on the loading dock. I’ve been at this company almost 21yrs in central WI and they’ve treated me well and almost all my customers have too. I wouldn’t want anyone negotiating anything on my behalf and using some of my money to do it.
Just throwing this out there… the 32 hours thing is HUGE in an assembly type setting. The model has been built for 40 hours and plus weeks.. all suppliers are set up for this also. It plays a much bigger role than just More$/hour. 
I have no dog in this fight but never wanted to work at a union job. My dad was UAW and in Maintenance at EMD in IL, which closed for good because GE took over the diesel locomotive market. Dad spent the middle part of his career complaining to friends and relatives about how the union protected all the lazy guys and he and the older guys ended up doing everything. No chance of getting rid of the useless ones. He spent the end of his complaining about Management while spending probably his last decade taking the whole place apart. I’ve worked for two electrical distributors for the last 31yrs. I started making deliveries and worked my way to Inside Sales and am an Industrial Controls Expert now. When I was a driver, IBEW workers in Chicago treated me like garbage on jobsites, and Teamsters wouldn’t have pi$$ed on me if I was on fire on the loading dock. I’ve been at this company almost 21yrs in central WI and they’ve treated me well and almost all my customers have too. I wouldn’t want anyone negotiating anything on my behalf and using some of my money to do it.
The employer can lay off the lazy ones any time they want. The union can’t do squat about it. If the old guys are doing everything and the young ones are lazy that’s on the employer not union lol.
As for the ibew don’t let those girls bully you. They are the least scary group I’ve ever seen. If your dad spent that many years complaining, then he was at the wrong shop. Comes down to, pricks are pricks and decent people are decent people. I can tell you that in all my years of being union. I haven’t complained one time.
Just throwing this out there… the 32 hours thing is HUGE in an assembly type setting. The model has been built for 40 hours and plus weeks.. all suppliers are set up for this also. It plays a much bigger role than just More$/hour.
That would all come down to shift changes. It wouldn’t just shut a plant down on a Thursday at 2pm.
I think what has the UAW fired up is that back during the Great Recession they made a number of concessions to save the companies, even though they were given massive bail outs by the FEDS cash for clunkers is an xample. I think only Ford refused government money. All UAW members took a haircut but the union went to a 2 tier wage schedule and gave up defined benefit pensions for those hired after 2008 or so. The 2 tier wage schedule never works and has to be undone ask the airlines how it went in the 80s during de regulation and the labor strife that followed.
I think their point is hey a little something for the effort.
Finally Union wages and benefits tend to be higher and better than non Union but a rising tide raises all boats and this idea that there are no lazy under performing workers in non Union environment it is myth. There is poor supervision and management everywhere.
This thread got some life!! No need for a Friday Topic but we might have one anyway. 
What is the yearly sales of Ford motor company? How many do they employ? What percentage of taxes collected in Michigan are Big 3 driven? Me thinks that at $20+ million these Ceo’s might be underpaid.
Im not anti union, I’m anti “the company is making alotta money so I should get more” kinda guy.
That’s a very lame argument and gor the record I’m all in favor of giving/getting a raise. If you earned it.
BTW – back in the day i was a card carrying nail bender.
Im not anti union, I’m anti “the company is making alotta money so I should get more” kinda guy.
That’s a very lame argument and gor the record I’m all in favor of giving/getting a raise. If you earned it.BTW – back in the day i was a card carrying nail bender.
But it’s called contract negotiation. Should that not be a thing ? Sounds like the workers all agree.
As for any union carpenter, I feel for them. They let there negotiations go backwards and took a big nasty hit. If the workers are making the boss tons of extra money
and record profits the boss should fork over more. Its time for raises. Or the worker should walk. If that wasn’t the case I’d still be making 20 bucks an hour, not triple that.
I’m not a big guy in the game by any means. But on my side work I pay x amount to my guys. If they all of a sudden are bringing me in triple that, then they deserve more. That’s all this is. Most greedy bosses don’t offer it, it has to be asked for or negotiated.
Just like Steve said he got a random 2 percent raise, he’s probably worth more. Not negotiating won’t get you any where.
Having been a employer for 30 years if any employee feels underpaid they are free to change jobs and go else where. Any employee who feels ownership is making to much money is free to mortgage the house, use their 401 & savings and borrow all they can and start their own business.
I’ll step back on this thread now. Enjoy your weekend.
Epg I’m not targeting you, you just happen to say something I don’t get.
I could be taking it wrong, but you get the workers are not demanding these things. They are asking for them in hopes of a counter offer. What the hell is wrong with that. Especially if they don’t even have a pension.
Having been a employer for 30 years if any employee feels underpaid they are free to change jobs and go else where. Any employee who feels ownership is making to much money is free to mortgage the house, use their 401 & savings and borrow all they can and start their own business.
I’ll step back on this thread now. Enjoy your weekend.
Those same employees are also able to ask you for more are they not.
Now if they told you , you make to much then that’s different. But I don’t think they are saying that. They are saying since profits are so high, can we make more , can we get a small percent of that. Especially in times where our economy is trash.
Never one time of asking for a raise did I tell my boss he made to much. I just watched how busy we got and realized how much I was worth. And it was met somewhere by my employer. Mutual respect
BC,
I have zero problem with negotiating.
I do have a problem with someone saying the CEO is making too much so give me some of his.
That’s a terrible argument
BC,
I have zero problem with negotiating.
I do have a problem with someone saying the CEO is making too much so give me some of his.
That’s a terrible argument
That I agree with. I guess I didn’t realize they said he makes to much. I read they said the company as a whole is making record profits so they would like a raise. I could have missed that I guess, didn’t realize they wanted the ceos money
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Eelpoutguy wrote:</div>
BC,
I have zero problem with negotiating.
I do have a problem with someone saying the CEO is making too much so give me some of his.
That’s a terrible argumentThat I agree with. I guess I didn’t realize they said he makes to much. I read they said the company as a whole is making record profits so they would like a raise. I could have missed that I guess, didn’t realize they wanted the ceos money
Were the record profits because of the employees or because of a decision made by management?
Were the record profits because of the employees or because of a decision made by management?
[/quote]
It’s a company. Team effort. Both are responsible I would guess. This ain’t no one man army.
Your bonuses have more withholdings they are not taxed more unless the bonus puts you in a higher tax bracket. Just sayin.
when you get paid at any point in time it’s based on a time period and what they “think” you’re making in a year. So yes th bonus puts me in a higher tax bracket because I unfortunately don’t make 20k in a couple weeks.
Ford said last week its electric vehicle operations are on track to lose $4.5 billion this year, a 50% wider loss than previously projected.
Boy I hope none of the UAW workers get a pay cut or even worse get axed to make up for some of the losses… maybe the “Big Guy” that took a spin in the Ford Lighting will subsidize Ford some more to make up the difference using tax $ out of the general fund.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Eelpoutguy wrote:</div>
Your bonuses have more withholdings they are not taxed more unless the bonus puts you in a higher tax bracket. Just sayin.when you get paid at any point in time it’s based on a time period and what they “think” you’re making in a year. So yes th bonus puts me in a higher tax bracket because I unfortunately don’t make 20k in a couple weeks.
You only pay taxes (reconcile) on April 15th.
You are withheld each time you are paid.
Ford said last week its electric vehicle operations are on track to lose $4.5 billion this year, a 50% wider loss than previously projected.
Boy I hope none of the UAW workers get a pay cut or even worse get axed to make up for some of the losses… maybe the “Big Guy” that took a spin in the Ford Lighting will subsidize Ford some more to make up the difference using tax $ out of the general fund.
Correct. X2
If workers want extra dough when things are up, that’s fine, as long as they take cuts when things are down…..
In general beyond this situation we do need to find a better balance between company profits and it’s employees. These large corporations are crating money vacuums in city and towns we haven’t seen on a scale this large in history which hurts everyone.
I’m sick of supplementing poor wages and benefits with my tax payments thru social programs.
If workers want extra dough when things are up, that’s fine, as long as they take cuts when things are down…..
I disagree with this but totally agree with the rest. As an at-will employee, you assume less risk but also less reward. Meaning you don’t really have a realistic opportunity to make 7 figures but also should NOT be at risk of a reduction in wages.
As an owner or executive, it’s a high risk high reward position. You assume all the risk but get to benefit with much higher pay.
I don’t have a problem with an executive making 5-10 times what an hourly employee makes but at 400 times the average hourly wage? That’s f’ing insane.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Deuces wrote:</div>
If workers want extra dough when things are up, that’s fine, as long as they take cuts when things are down…..I disagree with this but totally agree with the rest. As an at-will employee, you assume less risk but also less reward. Meaning you don’t really have a realistic opportunity to make 7 figures but also should NOT be at risk of a reduction in wages.
As an owner or executive, it’s a high risk high reward position. You assume all the risk but get to benefit with much higher pay.
I don’t have a problem with an executive making 5-10 times what an hourly employee makes but at 400 times the average hourly wage? That’s f’ing insane.
I agree with this. But if you are a employer, you should stride on giving your employees livable wages. Why should the employee take a pay cut lol. When times are tough lay offs happen. I wouldn’t ever tell my boss he makes to much, but I would comfortably ask for a raise at the right time. I’ve been in the concrete business for just under 20 years, I’m pretty well versed in this situation.
The employer can counter or even deny the raise, that’s when you decide if you make enough or walk.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
