Tying my own Fluorocarbon Leaders for Musky/Pike

The plan is 150# Fluorocarbon. 72″ long to a 200# Double-Lok Snap Swivel and a Ring Ball Bearing Swivel. Too much??? Too little? Weak Link??? Also what knot do I use to tie them?

I would use crimps

Kevin:

Used to work at the Musky Shop, been a long time since I’ve talked about tying leaders… we used to have guys do it all the time there. It would seem your length is a bit excessive for casting and reasonable for trolling… We used to talk about how difficult it was to tie the nail knot with the heavier strengths (I think heaviest was 130#) of floro and then would use crimps… a few fellas would actually nail knot then crimp the tag. We have several of the tourney anglers from town who are using the ball bearing swivel and then are tying a solid ring to attach the lure to, using a split ring pliers and the split ring on the nose of the bait, so no snap involved…

Mark

Thanks guys.

Same, I use crimps for all musky leader tying stuff. If tying up fluorocarbon leaders a double barrel crimp is best. the double barrel will keep the line from being pinched and creating a weak spot.

Kevin:

Thanks for the thanks!!! Interested in what’s your takeaway???

Mark

Well Mark. I just ordered my fluoro. Ended up with 175# test. I’m not sure what the diameter of the fluoro is so once I receive that I’ll order my crimps. Crimps seem to make since to me. I just want to make sure I crimp and don’t sever. What are your guy’s thoughts? A knot and 1 Crimp or no knot and 2 crimps?

My thought is crimps are cheap and losing a fish or lure is not.

Rodwork wrote:

My thought is crimps are cheap and losing a fish or lure is not.

Can’t argue with that.

Rodwork wrote:

My thought is crimps are cheap and losing a fish or lure is not.

Agreed. Some of the trolling lures are upwards of $150

Crimps are $0.10 a piece. I also like to burn the ends of the fluorocarbon past the crimp so i know that if the crimp fails, it will catch on the flared end.

I use fg knot from braid to 100 lb mono leader and a loop or uni knot at the lure.
At the very least you should be using this setup for jerkbaits. With no metal on the leader the baits work much better.
The fg is nearly twice as strong as your braid to swivel knot.
With an fg you can use a longer leader if you want for extra shock protection. I commonly use 10 ft leaders for casting heavy lures.

I always use 2 crimps on mine. Would hate to lose a big fish over a 10 cent crimp.

I make my own, no knots, double crimp. Use a crimping/swaging tool with the proper sizes and you will crimp the right amount every time and not cut the fluoro. I’ve had zero failures.

72″ is way too long unless you’re using finger-trap line and reeling the leader into your rod. If you’re using a swivel, having 6′ of leader off the end of your rod will make netting fish very difficult. I go with 12-14″ for casting and 30-40″ for trolling leaders.

Everything you need to make your own is on page 23 in Dick Moore’s catalog. Give him a call and he’ll guide you in the right direction.

http://www.mooreslures.com/PartsCatalog/Catalog.html

Michael C. Winther wrote:

I make my own, no knots, double crimp. Use a crimping/swaging tool with the proper sizes and you will crimp the right amount every time and not cut the fluoro. I’ve had zero failures.

72″ is way too long unless you’re using finger-trap line and reeling the leader into your rod. If you’re using a swivel, having 6′ of leader off the end of your rod will make netting fish very difficult. I go with 12-14″ for casting and 30-40″ for trolling leaders.

Everything you need to make your own is on page 23 in Dick Moore’s catalog. Give him a call and he’ll guide you in the right direction.

http://www.mooreslures.com/PartsCatalog/Catalog.html

Michael:

Mr. Moore lives just down the road from me… It seems more replies favor crimping and I am not one to start an argument, if you talk with Mr. Moore, he’ll get ya steered right with the crimps and crimping tools!!!

Mark

Thanks guys. I’m with you mbenson. Seems most use crimps. Which is fine with me. The purpose of this post was to determine what the majority use.

Michael… could you explain the netting issues I could run into with 72″ leaders in more detail please. I have 9′ Mojo Musky rods so the leader will not be reaching the reel. And I’m going to be trolling either weed beds or rocks. I could dial it back to 40″ if that is what is working for everyone. Also thanks for the link.

MnPat 1… Is the FG knot the best knot for tying braid to anything? ie. Lure, swivel, leader?

Kevin Collins wrote:

Michael… could you explain the netting issues I could run into with 72″ leaders in more detail please. I have 9′ Mojo Musky rods so the leader will not be reaching the reel. And I’m going to be trolling either weed beds or rocks. I could dial it back to 40″ if that is what is working for everyone. Also thanks for the link.

It depends on the approach you want to use for making the leaders and attaching them to your line:
– if you plan to direct tie your line to the leader or use something like Hollow Ace “finger trap” line, these will allow you to reel the leader through your rod eyes in which case a longer leader such as you described is fine.
– if you plan to connect your line to the leader using a swivel, then you won’t be able to (and wouldn’t want to) reel it through your eyelets, in which case 6′ of leader off the end of your rod would make netting very difficult; in this case a shorter leader is the better approach.

I’ve messed around with the direct-tie longer leaders and reeling them into the rod and found it to be more trouble than it’s worth. I understand the value of those really long leaders in salt water applications, but just haven’t seen it myself for muskie fishing. I know of others who really love it though.
For me, the simplicity of making leaders with a ball-bearing swivel on one end and a snap-lock on the other end has been the way to go. The smaller leaders (14″ casting, 40″ trolling) are easier to store, easier to deal with on the water, and equally effective.

The FG knot?? You’ll run into debate on this, but I think the FG knot with Rizutto finish and drop of superglue is about as good as it gets for directly attaching braid to fluorocarbon. This knot takes practice, but once mastered is excellent – strong, thin, durable. This knot isn’t for attaching line to lures or swivels.

Personally, I use a 7’ flouro leader of 100lb test, attached as my top shot to 80lb Jerry Brown Hollow Core line. At the business end, I attach a soft glow bead (for night fishing) affixed with glue/wraps to the flouro about 8” above a 100lb ball bearing swivel to which a 200lb Staylock snap is attached. The swivel is crimped to the flouro after melting a mushroom end into flouro with a lighter and then pulling it tight into the crimp.

I’m in the camp that on some fish – not all – the additional stealth of a 7’ flouro leader makes a difference between a bite and a follow. Could be the ‘placebo effect’ though – I think it makes a difference so it does. Only the fish know for sure.

Kevin Collins wrote:

MnPat 1… Is the FG knot the best knot for tying braid to anything? ie. Lure, swivel, leader?

Kevin:

I have not used a FG knot yet… I have heard many good things about it!!! I wonder and this is without any experience… how any knot is going to tighten down at 175#??? By that I mean, when the guys were making 130# leaders at the Musky Shop, they were literally putting the snap or swivel on a nail and hanging all their weight on the knot for it to tighten and that was with a much lighter test weight of floro… I’m guessing and only guessing that you might not be able to tighten any knot that you might choose and thus crimping might be your only choice… food for thought is all I am saying…

Mark

I’m a walleye fisherman (ie. Not a musky expert) so short of giving you specific advice I will just tell you what I use… I run a 100# fluorocarbon leader from VMC that is 18″ long. I purchased 4 of them 3 years ago and have landed over 20 muskies the past 3 years on these leaders with no issues. I still have all 4 leaders and use them all… I attach them to my main line using a reverse clinch knot. 95% of my experience is with trolling.

I will also add that I set my drag rather loose for trolling as I’ve found that my hookup percentage more than doubled by having the drag as loose as I possibly feel comfortable rather than extremely tight.

Will

All good stuff guys. I have a call into Moore’s Lures for crimps and a crimper. My Fluoro is 1.35mm… There is no knot around I can tie that stuff into. Thanks for all the insight.

Mark, I don’t know about other knots used with 175lb test, but with the FG the braid is being used to form the ‘finger trap’ around the flouro and is the only one of the two lines that is cinched down tightly. The fluoro remains straight at the connection point – it’s the ‘finger’ in the finger trap. The guys at the musky shop were probably hanging on a heavy fluoro knot that was cinching down on itself.

Will, those leaders can last a very long time! Unlike mono, sunlight doesn’t degrade fluoro. Elongation from stretching weakens them, as does physical damage. Inspect for knicks and abrasions after a fish or contact with hard cover is all I do.

I agree for longer leaders just tie line to line. Saltwater guys tie with FG knot and land 200# tarpon with mono to flouro or braid to flouro. I’m a believer that less failure points is best. Tieing line to line is the best option.

I’ve landed plenty of big pike on braid to flouro using just an Alberto knot.