Twins Franchise

After the Twins game last night, Trevor Plouffe made the comment that he is chasing the Twins franchise in RBIs.. He was referring to Dozier not Mauer.

I know last year, there was a lot of Mauer backers on IDO when trade talks circled. Do you guys STILL think Mauer is the team franchise for the future?

Im not sold on Dozier as a franchise, but I hope they pay him to stay, and would still like to see Mauer traded for some pitching. Sano looks like he’d make a great first baseman

Mauer 23,000,000
Dozier 2,000,000
Plouffe 4,000,000

Mauer is almost reduced to has been status. He’s not the focal point and hasn’t been for quite a time now. Going forward, I’d like to see him moved down in the order and let someone like Dozier hit 3rd. Joe’s a 6-7 hitter with how he has been performing this season.

As for Dozier, he IS the real deal. The guy has good pop for a middle infielder and he gets on base at a decent clip. Right now, he is as hot as a pistol also.
He is already locked up though. He signed a 4 year deal over the winter. They got him locked in for 20 mil. Looks like that one might turn out to be a bargain.

To much money for anybody playing a game to entertain someone sitting down while the entertainee and the people who could not give a rats arss pays for their multimillion/billion $$ workplace. This goes for all pro sports.
Get a handle on whats truely important.

I agree that public funded stadiums are not a great idea, but I’m all for athletes getting paid.

The demand is there, people are spending money on tickets and merchandise, no one is forcing them to do that. I’d much rather see that money go to the players than the billionaire owners(who are also the ones pushing for public funded stadiums).

The talent is on the field, that’s what the fans pay to see, let them have their share. If you are one of the best people in the world at something, I think you should probably make a good living off of it!

I have a masters degree in statistics and I make a decent living with that, but if I was legitimately a top 3 mind in the field of statistics, I’d be making a lot of dough.

I like to think of myself as neutral when it comes to Mauer. I think he’s talented and has had some years where he was one of the best in the MLB, and I also think he’s slid the last two years. Only time will tell if this is the beginning of the end as far as a continuous slide or if these last two have just been “off years.”

Plenty of the blame should go to the organization for his contract. Yes, Mauer could’ve taken less money, and he could restructure like some athletes do in order to free up money to contend better. However the Twins agreed to the contract too. My guess is they assumed they’d score a PR victory by re-signing the hometown boy, but then they either traded away or let leave any other quality players we had. As much as I have loved the Twins my whole life I feel that they have been a poorly run organization for awhile.

For them to build around their best player (Dozier), keep a few quality players, and then develop and KEEP their young studs will be a change to their business model. They have an extremely highly ranked minor league system (perhaps the best according to some), but the only way to translate that into MLB success will be to wisely spend some more money to keep the talent that came up through their own organization.

philtickelson
Statistics you say. I find that intresting and that’s not a dig phil just to be clear.
Anyways I see what your saying and I respect that. I said my piece. Unfortunately it went over your head.

Turn back the clock to when Mauer was signed. If the Pohlads had not done the deal to keep him at the time the outrage could have been heard in Iowa. It’s rare for a catcher to win one batting title let alone multiple titles.

As far as high salaries what about actors, CEO’s, news anchors, catfish guides, David Letterman was making around 20 mil a year to read jokes other people wrote. There are many things out of whack. While I’m not a big fan of my tax dollars going towards stadiums, maybe $30 a year(not sure) There are many places my hard earned money go that are much more upsetting than a stadium.

How much is a pro athlete worth ? Should KVD be allowed to make that much money… for fishing ?

“So let me get this straight, you want the guy who is leading the team in batting average to move down in the order to 6 or 7 only because hes not performing up to his contract?”

I think the point is that on a good team, a guy that’s hitting .275 and projecting to hit 10 homeruns for the year shouldn’t be hitting 3rd. That’s the profile of more of a #2 or #7 hitter realistically. He wouldn’t be a #2 hitter because he’s not much of a base stealer so 6, 7, 8 is about right depending on the strength of the rest of the hitters on the team..

I think over time (most likely after Mauer is retired in a few years) the real story will come out. And I do think its 3 things that have led to his decline:

1) Target Field. Fences are way too high and deep for him to have the power numbers he put up in his final years at the dome. He went from homeruns that were 5-10 feet over the wall in left, to warning track outs at Target Field. And there’s no close proximity “baggy” in Right to hit the ball off of for an easy double.

2) Zone defenses. Now that he doesn’t have the dome’s dimensions to keep the fielders honest, they can shift to all of his spots on the field where he hits the ball… i. e. up the middle, or to Left field, etc. Look how Alex Gordon owns him now.

3) Its not that he doesn’t care, it isn’t that he’s lazy with a fat contract. I’m almost certain there is an underlying health problem that we will all get more clarification some day from him, or most likely the team, after he retires. Concussion syndrome, bi-lateral leg issues … Neuropathy, an STD, who knows… but I DO think there is something more than we all already know. He didn’t like the label of being called a wimp that he got a couple years ago, so he just plays through it and doesn’t say anything.

All this being said, if I were Joe and hitting .275 and 10 HR’s a year – I would re-structure my contract for half the money (and only through incentives in hitting his old numbers, could he earn $23m again). This would allow the team more room to sign an additional front line pitcher, and provide a better chance to make it to a World Series during his career.

But again, that’s what I would do and probably not what any major leaguer would..

I think there is health issues with Mauer as well. I think Target field has something to do with it, but it shouldn’t account for such a drop in all his stats. I think moving off of catcher had an impact. It’s counter intuitive, but not unheard of for a player’s offensive production to drop significantly after they move off their ‘normal’ defensive position. Adam Dunn’s move from OF in the NL to DH in the AL is one that comes to me right away.

His first year at Target field he hit .327, had an OBP of .402 and SLUGged .469, which is damn good for a catcher. So I don’t think it’s just Target field though.

Lineup construction for the Twins is difficult. Mauer actually leads the team in OBP(not counting Sano yet until he gets more ABs), at .340. A .340 OBP is good for 61st in the MLB, yuck. From that aspect it makes sense to have him towards the top of the lineup, but he really has a wet noodle for a bat this year only slugging .393.

The problem is that outside of Dozier, Plouffe and Hunter, the lineup is pretty terrible. So you could move him out of the 3 spot and put Plouffe or Hunter in there, but Mauer is as good a candidate for the 3 hole as anyone outside of those two guys(until Sano is healthy and used to ML pitching, then move Mauer wherever you want).

It will be a good problem to have – but if the above hitters you mention stay solid – and Sano, Buxton, Rosario reach some/most of their potential as hitters – then where does Mauer end up in the line up with .275 BA/.393 SP? Would hate to see him in his 30’s, with average production at a traditional power position (1st base), holding up the development of the younger players that long term have a better chance of developing a winning team.

Couldn’t agree more frydog.

I was a big Joe Mauer apologist for a long time, when he first moved to 1B and wasn’t showing the power numbers he was still hitting for an elite average and getting on base at an elite clip. Without those two things happening his value is dwindling fast.

Once some of those younger guys get their legs under them, Mauer should absolutely be dropped in the order. This year it’s a bit hazier, but going forward YES.

Seems like most agree that there’s been some decline in Mauer. Which leads me to another rhetorical discussion point:

Why the *&$# do teams in every professional sport sign players to such long contracts? I am no business guy whatsoever, but every time I hear that “so-and-so signed for 7 years, $152 million” I am in awe. And yes, I understand the argument that that’s what these players and agents want and if they don’t get it they’ll take their talents elsewhere, but these long deals rarely pan out due to injuries, aging, or just not sustaining the success that got them the big contract.