Twins 2021

I can’t believe the White Sux went for Kimbrel instead of coming after Colome.

Gant will be a decent bullpen piece. He failed as a starter with St. Louis so the pen is where he should be slotted into.

Buxton stays. With Berrios out of the picture I’m betting they extend him.

Robles to the red sox for minor league pitcher in AA with solid numbers in his first three years.

Would have liked to have seen Pineda traded for something, but overall, seems like a solid trade deadline.

To get what appears to be a solid bullpen arm for J.A. Happ?? Unbelievable.

Jose Berios, Career: 55-43, 4.08 ERA

Brad Radke, Career: 148-139, 4.22 ERA

Both slightly above average pitchers but considered the Twins’ #1. That shows how bad the Twins’ pitching has been and still is.

Dutchboy wrote:

Wanna be a Nationals fan? World Series Champion in 2019 complete teardown in 2021.

I’d give anything for a championship in any of our sports. Even the White Sox, except for very recently, have been pretty bad in my adult life but they won a title. I’d take years of rebuilding for a solid run every once and awhile.

You can’t win the World Series until you win the American League. You can’t win the American League until you win the division or wild card. Twins as a whole have been fairly solid recently. Historically since 1987 they haven’t been terrible. Stretches of not so good but over-all they compete and are entertaining.

There are many, many teams that have done a lot worse.

Netguy wrote:

Jose Berios, Career: 55-43, 4.08 ERA

Brad Radke, Career: 148-139, 4.22 ERA

Both slightly above average pitchers but considered the Twins’ #1. That shows how bad the Twins’ pitching has been and still is.

Completely agree! You should see the outrage from the Blue Jays Fans on Twitter.

They should be happy. Their prospects haven’t pitched a inning for a team that needed more pitching.

Prospects are just prospects.

From Keith Law in the Athletic. To keep it short I just grabbed the pertinent info on who we got from Toronto.

The Twins get two of the Jays’ top prospects coming into 2021, Austin Martin, No. 12 on my recent ranking of the top 50 prospects in baseball, and right-hander Simeon Woods-Richardson, but both guys who have slipped a little bit in Toronto’s and the industry’s eyes. Martin was the fifth overall pick in 2020, and was atop my draft board thanks to his combination of positional versatility, athleticism, and extremely high contact rates. The Jays assigned him right to Double A this spring to start his pro career; between that and a hand injury, he got off to a slow start, but he’s been improving as the season has progressed, hitting .289/.446/.398 since June 1st, .296/.500/.352 in 18 games so far in July.

His approach at the plate is superb and he has great hand-eye coordination to make contact, so there’s a high floor here, with several teams showing an increased interest in high-contact hitters in the last year or so. His swing has become more inside-out this year than it was at Vanderbilt, and he’s not using his legs enough to drive the ball, which explains the low ISO and overall lack of power. He’s played shortstop and centerfield this year for New Hampshire, and played third base in college, but his throwing has been inconsistent and I think center or second base are his two most likely long-term positions. His hands were always plus at third, and second may make the best use of his skills. I see a clear regular and leadoff hitter, with more upside if the Twins can get him in his legs more, but a muted ceiling until that happens.

Woods-Richardson’s velocity picked up after the Mets drafted him in 2018 and made him a full-time pitcher, but it has backed up since then and he’s been more fringe-average with his fastball along with a 50/55 changeup. He’s normally a strike-thrower, although this year he’s walked 13 percent of batters he’s faced after an aggressive placement in Double A, since he had just six starts in High A to close out 2019. His breaking ball remains below average, and his arm is extremely late relative to his landing leg, which, along with some stiffness through release, limits his velocity and north-south command. I think it all points to a more probable relief future than a starting one. That’s an everyday player with strong OBP skills and a small chance for some power, and a potentially above-average reliever with a small chance to start. For a year and a half of Bérrios, that sounds about right, even if these two prospects are more famous than their skills merit right now.

Yep. Saw that. I think he’s downplaying it to keep the lid on the Jays fans.

What would he care what Jays fans think?

So, Happ, Robles & Berrios. Did I miss anybody? Thats all he could unload?

Stuck with Simmons, Sano, all the outfielders (they got a bunch) and our prized pupil Colome.

Can’t grade it because prospects aren’t worth crap at this point. Time will tell I guess.

I think at worst, they avoided a full rebuild. Could be good again in a couple years and at worst, they added some high leverage trade pieces with the prospects they got.

Depends on their approach as a team. If they continue this swing & miss, swing for the fences it will be a long time coming. Until they return to valuing average, speed, driving in runs, defense it won’t matter what they have for pitching.

I’m old and a baseball purist. This stuff they are playing now is hard for me to watch or get excited about. But, I’ll hope for the best.

“So, Happ, Robles & Berrios. Did I miss anybody? Thats all he could unload?”

Correct, they did not unload JD… candle is still lit..”

Yes Donaldson is still here. Along with the Fat Kid. I did omit Cruz from my list of the departed.

Dutch at least the Austin kid they got is an Arraez type of skill hitter with a little more power and speed. Funny, I read a story today that said lately teams were starting to draft and trade for prospects with better contact skills than power……imagine that.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Dutch at least the Austin kid they got is an Arraez type of skill hitter with a little more power and speed. Funny, I read a story today that said lately teams were starting to draft and trade for prospects with better contact skills than power……imagine that.

Whoda thunk guys on base are a good thing?

There’s too much agreement on this thread. We need Tbro back.

Dutchboy wrote:

Can’t grade it because prospects aren’t worth crap at this point. Time will tell I guess.

I saw something cool yesterday talking about the domino effects and long-term ways some of these trades can play out. Can’t remember the year but it was when the Angels traded Texiera to the Yankees. Texiera had a good enough year to allow the Angels to receive a compensatory pick, which became a 6th-rounder they used to draft Mike Trout. Rare, but sometimes these long-term things pan out. And then sometimes you trade possibly the best player in baseball at his position (Johann Santana) and receive 5 hopefuls and the best you get is an erratic CF who bunts for a 3rd strike way too often (Carlos Gomez).

Baseball boils down to two things, scouting and development. If you do those two things well you are in good shape. If you only do one thing well you are the Twins. Don’t do either well and you are terrible and need to buy your way to championships which doesn’t work.

Does the analytics give us a tell if Rocco will be back next year?

I don’t see a scenario that he isn’t. He wasn’t the guy that built this mess. While I don’t agree with hw he plays the game he is doing with what he’s given I guess. I would however just once like to see him publicly show some emotion and maybe ever get on a player for a bad play. I keep going back to the beginning when we lost all those games because he refused to have the player bunt the runner to third to start the 10th innings. If a player can’t bunt, thats on Rocco for leaving camp with him. If the player won’t bunt, thats on Rocco for leaving him in the game.

I don’t honestly know enough about pitching (other than seeing with my own eyes Colome can’t pitch) to rip him to bad. Again he can only use what he is given. My guess is Falvey or Levine are dictating the pitch counts when he has to take guys out.

Other than the press conferences before & after the games you wouldn’t even know he was the manager.

I think Baldelli is given a pitch count model and basically that they don’t want their starters facing a lineup three times. I think that’s been obvious for the last two year. Which is also why none of our pitchers succeed after 5 innings. They don’t know how to pitch once their bodies start getting the least bit tired because they aren’t allowed to do it.

mahtofire14 wrote:

They don’t know how to pitch once their bodies start getting the least bit tired because they aren’t allowed to do it.

Some don’t know how to pitch in the first inning, either. In one of Berios’ last starts there were two errors in the first inning and then he gives up a double, I think, to score 2 runs. Very good pitchers can pitch out of jams. Berios was very good after that.

I know pitchers can’t always be “on” but what I’ve noticed lately with Twins’ pitchers, including Berios, is they miss there target firly often by a foot or more. Catcher sets up low and outside and he misses high and inside.

I’m watching the replay of last nights game. I hope it turns out better.

I fell asleep. Yay me!!

I probably won’t be watching a whole ton until the new arms they got get called up or if Miranda get’s called up.

Twins have taken a step back for at least the next couple years from a pitching perspective. Berrios is only a #2 or #3 starting caliber pitcher but we need 3 more like him to compete during the season and have any chance of winning an actual playoff game. Now we need 4 with his departure. A two year re-build may actually be very optimistic.

I get it, we receive prospects in return, but not all are pitchers with a high ceiling to get us to a competitive starting 5. And high quality pitchers don’t come here during free agency as we know. Plus, we’re not willing to pay even $80-100m for a #2 or #3 starter like Berrios.

For the Twins to build a winner which they do every 15 years or so – they need to combine luck with high ceiling prospects under team control long enough to build a core… and sprinkle in a few middle ability FA’s that serendipitously have career years.

If I were Buxton I’d temporarily switch to hockey and get the puck out of here. He wants to win now (or sign for big money before he gets hurt again) and this team is in a whole new development phase now that will take him past his prime years of game-changing speed before they are relevant again.