Twins 2020

Well, if you were the Twins and wanted to sell hope to the fan base to get those season ticket sales of course you would be in.

Yankees were the Twins “Hoosier Daddy” last year (again). Many have said, the Twins just need 1-2 more frontline starters and we’re competitive with the Yanks and other top teams.

Well so far the Twins haven’t added any starting strength and the Yanks just signed Cole.

Here we go again…

Baseball is just so broken its stupid…how on earth are teams not in the top 3 US markets supposed to compete with the Yankees offering $325 million to a pitcher?

JoeMX1825 wrote:

how on earth are teams not in the top 3 US markets supposed to compete with the Yankees offering $325 million to a pitcher?

Well the Pohlad’s would just have to decide that they want the funds generated by the team to go toward the team instead of their pockets. It’s really that simple, as the Pohlads likely made $100+ million last year on top of the team value appreciating. At least we didn’t have to read stories that the Twins were “in” on Cole, and just barely missed out with their offer of 5 years and $175 million or something like that. While I’m on the subject I’m so tired of seeing the pocket protectors commending the Twins front office for being “in” on Wheeler, Bumgardner etc. How about we remain critical until they prove they can land a top FA? It’s like complementing a QB who throws deep and misses the receiver by 10 yards, or Sano swinging for the fences but striking out, well at least they tried! No, the offseason is a competition too and results matter.

I did read somewhere that they did get something like $110 million just from MLB profit sharing, so yes I agree the Pohlads are cheap. I just think the lack of a hard salary cap makes this league a joke…I realize money doesn’t buy championships, but it’s comical the differences between some teams…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

Baseball is just so broken its stupid…how on earth are teams not in the top 3 US markets supposed to compete with the Yankees offering $325 million to a pitcher?

Tank, get talent on the cheap, manipulate service time, and then buy pitching when the iron is hot. That ain’t good for the game either

moustachesteve wrote:

Tank, get talent on the cheap,

You’re in the wrong thread. You should be here. http://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/community/forums/topic/mn-wild-2019-2020-official-thread/

“…the offseason is a competition too and results matter.”

This!

BigWerm wrote:

While I’m on the subject I’m so tired of seeing the pocket protectors commending the Twins front office for being “in” on Wheeler, Bumgardner etc.

Exactly. Until they LAND the free agent they are “IN” on, it’s still a fail. Whether they are in on them or not.

Twins are actively shopping Rosario now too. They had two offers to the Marlins one for Sandy Alcantara 24 year old SP who was 6-14 in 2019 but a 3.88 era. And also for Pablo Lopez 23 year old SP, 5-8 in 2019 with a 5.09 era and shoulder problems. Both of which the Marlins turned down….Alcantara would’ve been a nice haul for Rosario.

And in other news, Scott Boras said the Twins cities are a desirable location to both his clients (Bumgarner and Ryu). However it is Scott Boras and he’s probably blowing smoke up everyone’s you know whats.

But but but why would they trade all star Rosario for a pitcher that went 6-14 last year? All he does is LOSE!

tbro16 wrote:

But but but why would they trade all star Rosario for a pitcher that went 6-14 last year? All he does is LOSE!

So would Oddo or Berrios on a team that lost 105 games…..Come on Tbro. You’re better than that. You don’t need deep analytics to see a guy has a sub 4 era.

And if you look through the threads you’ll find that I’m not too big on Rosario to begin with. I think he missed more cut off men last season than I did in my little league career through 4 years of college baseball……

mahtofire14 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
But but but why would they trade all star Rosario for a pitcher that went 6-14 last year? All he does is LOSE!

So would Oddo or Berrios on a team that lost 105 games…..Come on Tbro. You’re better than that. You don’t need deep analytics to see a guy has a sub 4 era.

Is tbro being sarcastic? Does mahto realize this and even his response is sarcastic? The eternal meta of online discourse will return next week in…IDO Twins thread

moustachesteve wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
But but but why would they trade all star Rosario for a pitcher that went 6-14 last year? All he does is LOSE!

So would Oddo or Berrios on a team that lost 105 games…..Come on Tbro. You’re better than that. You don’t need deep analytics to see a guy has a sub 4 era.

Is tbro being sarcastic? Does mahto realize this and even his response is sarcastic? The eternal meta of online discourse will return next week in…IDO Twins thread

No he’s just giving me some crap.(partly sarcasm)….It’s just what Tbro and I do in our daily battle over analytics ruining the game….

FWIW I would absolutely trade Rosario for a decent quality arm and frankly the most surprising thing about this situation is that a club like Miami is smart enough not to take the deal. We should only seek out the dumbest/most tank-happy trade partners.

moustachesteve wrote:

FWIW I would absolutely trade Rosario for a decent quality arm and frankly the most surprising thing about this situation is that a club like Miami is smart enough not to take the deal. We should only seek out the dumbest/most tank-happy trade partners.

It’s because Rosario really isn’t worth all that much and Miami has James Rowson (our hitting coach from last year) as their bench coach most likely telling them exactly what he is and isn’t worth.

Sheesh, I can only hope the walleyes on Mille lacs this weekend will take the bait as quick as you guys do!

I saw some rumors that there are some teams interested in trading for Rosario on twitter. I cracked a joke that only the Orioles, Mariners, and Marlins scouting departments are dumb enough to trade for him. Hours later, low and behold, see another tweet about how the Marlins are in on him lol.

To set the record straight, I’m so far out on Rosario. He’s got a nice bat, even with the strikeouts, but his defense and baserunning are so so so difficult to watch.

tbro16 wrote:

Sheesh, I can only hope the walleyes on Mille lacs this weekend will take the bait as quick as you guys do!

I saw some rumors that there are some teams interested in trading for Rosario on twitter. I cracked a joke that only the Orioles, Mariners, and Marlins scouting departments are dumb enough to trade for him. Hours later, low and behold, see another tweet about how the Marlins are in on him lol.

To set the record straight, I’m so far out on Rosario. He’s got a nice bat, even with the strikeouts, but his defense and baserunning are so so so difficult to watch.

I figured you weren’t big on him either. His defense is a killer. Marlins seem to know it also not giving in to the Twins.

There was a rumor of the Twins trading Rosario for Jon Gray/Rockies before the trade deadline. Obviously didn’t happen and then Gray fractured his foot in August.

A report came out in November the foot is healed and teams are offering for Gray. He’s another guy with a decent ERA on a bad team. Throws 96 mph, 2 more years of a team-friendly contract. But I’m guessing the Rockies don’t trade him without 2-3 players/prospects in return because they are rebuilding and have to fill several holes. Also not sure that I’d give up Rosie and a couple prospects (ok maybe Nick Gordon and a Low A arm). And I don’t know that Gray gives the Twins what they need to win the division again (and maybe a game or two in the playoffs!).

If we’re not in the front-line FA market, then this is the kind of trade the Twins may have to entertain. And I don’t know it gets us anywhere farther than where we were in 2019.

FryDog62 wrote:

There was a rumor of the Twins trading Rosario for Jon Gray/Rockies before the trade deadline. Obviously didn’t happen and then Gray fractured his foot in August.

A report came out in November the foot is healed and teams are offering for Gray. He’s another guy with a decent ERA on a bad team. Throws 96 mph, 2 more years of a team-friendly contract. But I don’t know the Rockies trade him without 2-3 players/prospects in return because they are rebuilding and have to fill several holes. Don’t know that I’d give up Rosie and a couple prospects (ok maybe Nick Gordon and a Low A arm). And I’m not sure Gray gives the Twins what they need to win the division again (and maybe a game or two in the playoffs!).

If we’re not in the front-line FA market, then this is the kind of trade the Twins may have to entertain. And I don’t know it gets us anywhere farther than where we were in 2019.

I haven’t looked at Gray much but I’d think Rosario and Nick Gordon could get you a pretty solid #3-4 rotation arm. I’d be willing to make that deal for the right arm. I’ve honestly got no interest in Gordon especially with Lewis behind him.

The arrival of Arraez creates quite a bottleneck for prospects at 2b and that’s where Gordon should end up playing. Polish him up and and connect him as the prospect in a 2 player trade for a good starting arm (something at least an upgrade to Gibby).

Tanner Rourke, a #3 or #4 starter at best just got $12 million a year for 2 years. The bar has been set for below average to average starting pitchers.

Dutchboy wrote:

Tanner Rourke, a #3 or #4 starter at best just got $12 million a year for 2 years. The bar has been set for below average to average starting pitchers.

Ah damn. I actually would’ve liked to see him here. He’s nasty when he’s on.

As far as Rosario goes as a player I can take him or leave him. But what you need to consider before moving him is what does he mean to the team. He can be a high energy guy and i’ve seen the team respond to him. Trading him for a piece and a # 3 or 4 starter isn’t enough IMO. He is a proven commodity and a prospect is a prospect, a roll of the dice. I’d want more than a average starter and a prospect. If I’m moving him I’m packaging him with another major league player and going for gold. Otherwise he can stay.

I don’t think you are going to get that from any team for Rosario. Yes he might hit 30 HR’s for you but he’s going to cost you in the field and he’s just about the streakiest hitter out there. Not to mention all you have to do to get him out is throw a slider just off the plate.

I know I’m not alone on this but I just want to win. I’ve spent my life watching other teams around the Twins make major efforts to get better while the Twins would get an “honorable mention” at best, and this offseason has been no different. The Pohland/Falvene combo hasn’t given us any reason to think this will ever change.

Dan wrote:

I know I’m not alone on this but I just want to win. I’ve spent my life watching other teams around the Twins make major efforts to get better while the Twins would get an “honorable mention” at best, and this offseason has been no different. The Pohland/Falvene combo hasn’t given us any reason to think this will ever change, with the pitching staff.

Fixed this for you.

“As far as Rosario goes as a player… I’d want more than a average starter and a prospect.”

Problem is its the other way around – teams want Rosario AND a prospect from us in exchange for their #3 or #4 starter. Crazy I know, but that’s the low market for Rosario and the premium on starting pitching.

mahtofire14 wrote:

I don’t think you are going to get that from any team for Rosario. Yes he might hit 30 HR’s for you but he’s going to cost you in the field and he’s just about the streakiest hitter out there. Not to mention all you have to do to get him out is throw a slider just off the plate.

Throw a good slider off the plate and most everybody on that team is swinging like a old gate. Where they succeeded last year is when that slider was flat or they missed with it. The team that flails at good sliders feasts on mistakes.

I do question, even if the Twins have largely the same roster as last year, that they win the division. Hard for all the stars to line up during the regular season again.

Yes, they hit most of the flat sliders and decided not to swing at just enough of them that were a foot off the plate. But things may not be that way next year.

Eight players may not hit 20+ HR’s, Polanco may not be an All-Star again, Cruz’s wrist might give way, maybe Odorizzi oder-achieved, maybe we just over paid a suspect Pineda, the team might miss all the coaches who have left for other jobs, and maybe this off-season Schwan’s will add a new delivery route to Sano’s cul-de-sac…

It won’t be easy to get anywhere near 101 wins again, 2019 might have just been an aberration…

…and without adding more impact starting pitching, it could still be quite awhile until we see another playoff win..

And that is why it was important to try harder last year. There’s always a “give them time” crowd, wait until Falvene have a few offseasons, wait until Prospect A develops, wait until we shed Player B’s contract and can spend more, etc. etc. They had a very good opportunity last year and as you said, there’s no guarantee they’ll duplicate what they did offensively again.