Twins 2020

Meh, I don’t think they were going to win with one run. They blew it in the first.

With Snell going the way he was it was certainly possible. It’s just a complete bonehead move. I can’t believe Snell let him take him out. That game is the reason you pay top tier pitchers the money they get, well maybe not TB, they don’t pay anybody. But to take THAT GUY out is ridiculous at that point of the game. That’s going to be talked about for a while.

I agree, too much overthinking. Moves and decisions like that would’ve had Jack Morris taken out in the 6th inning of game 7 of the ’91 World Series.

I’m in the camp where I think analytics are good. But come on?! How can you take your ace out that early in that situation?!

If that was Rocco (it partially was with Berrios), I’d be asking for his head!!

Edit: I’m glad Kershaw finally got a WS though, guy is one of the greats!

Agreed Mahto! I wonder what the analytics say when your facing the top of the order for the third time, BUT that top of the lineup is 0fer with 6 strikeouts the first 2 times through the lineup…

And one was playing covid!

AnotherFisherman wrote:

I’m in the camp where I think analytics are good. But come on?! How can you take your ace out that early in that situation?!

If that was Rocco (it partially was with Berrios), I’d be asking for his head!!

Edit: I’m glad Kershaw finally got a WS though, guy is one of the greats!

You don’t want me to get into how many times Rocco has done this……Don’t forget what organization he came from……

Its analytics’ fault one of the most analytic teams in baseball lost in game 6 of the WS? Ironic Bash on Cash all you want but he was sticking to his guns. He had done the same thing all season and nobody had an issue with it while his pitching staff finished with a team ERA of 3.56 and the best record in the AL. Rays were tied for 6th in SP team ERA but 26th in innings pitched. Rays starters averaged just over 4 innings per start but their team ERA was 3rd best in the league. Snell hadnt pitched more than 5 2/3 innings all season either. Snells numbers the first time through the lineup were tremendous, but quite bad the 2nd and 3rd time. Faced a total of only 23 hitters all season a 3rd time. So easy to jump down Cash’s throat now but it had worked for him so frequently all season. In my opinion, 1 run wasnt going to beat the Dodgers whether Snell pitched all 9 or if he was pulled when he was pulled. I’ll blame the loss the on the lack of offensive production, not the manager making a questionable decision.

You forgot to mention his relief pitcher had been Rogers-esque giving up at least one run IN HIS LAST SIX APPEARANCES. But that doesn’t matter when you have a folder of numbers on your side. Analytics help over season long periods. They go out the door when you need to make one big time decision in the heat of the moment. Case in point the 2020 playoffs.

Binders give you blinders as Arod so eloquently put it on the post game show. I couldn’t agree more. I love seeing all the players calling them out for this. Even athletes from other sports are piling on. I hope it wakes up some of these pitchers to say, F U when the manager walks out of the dugout next year in similar situations. Let the players decide the outcome of the game. That’s why we’re all watching. Not to see a different pitcher every inning.

I’m calling for the official abolishment of analytics from baseball!

tbro16 wrote:

Snells numbers the first time through the lineup were tremendous, but quite bad the 2nd and 3rd time. Faced a total of only 23 hitters all season a 3rd time.

If he only faced 23 batters a third time all season those numbers could hardly be accurate. He hadn’t even been given an appropriate amount of time to make the case whether he could or couldn’t handle facing the 1-2-3 batters a third time. And it bit Cash in the ass. Well deserved.

Oh by the way, the next three batters he was facing……0-6 with 6 K’s up until that point. You’d think with all the trends the numbers track the analytics crowd would be able to see that one and think, maybe we should leave him in this once…..

mahtofire14 wrote:

If he only faced 23 batters a third time all season those numbers could hardly be accurate. He hadn’t even been given an appropriate amount of time to make the case whether he could or couldn’t handle facing the 1-2-3 batters a third time.

You dont need analytics, just common sense, to tell you that if a pitcher struggled with a lineup their 2nd time through they’ll struggle again a 3rd time.

mahtofire14 wrote:

analytics crowd would be able to see that one and think, maybe we should leave him in this once…..

I’m not advocating one way or the other. Clearly it didnt work out. Just annoyed of people wanting to blame Cash for the loss. Its not that simple

Theres a simple solution if you dont like analytics, just become a Tigers fan and watch them. Bonus: you get the treat of listening to jack morris complain about how much he hates todays game

Let it go Mahto for your own sanity….You are just encouraging the behavior. It’s like you are arguing with a toddler who refuses to eat dinner. Sometimes it’s just easier to send them to bed and close the door instead.

tbro16 wrote:

Bonus: you get the treat of listening to jack morris complain about how much he hates todays game

That’s my favorite part of watching baseball at the moment. Convenient for you the Tigers play old school baseball yet they don’t have the talent to field a AAA team. Give them the any average MLB roster and the results would look a lot different.

Oh and by the way, it is REALLY SIMPLE to look at your ACE PITCHER and realizing he has dominated the next three guys coming to the plate (let alone the rest of the opposing lineup) and saying we need to do things differently this time.

That’s the whole issue with analytics. When simple and easy decisions come about during a game, you say oh it’s not that simple after it blows up in your face when in reality, the correct decision is right there in front of your face. Some would call it common sense.

That is and will always be my gripe with analytics. Your nose is so far up your binder’s butt, you don’t pay attention to what’s actually happening in front of you and big games get lost that way.

**steps off soapbox**

Ripjiggen wrote:

Let it go Mahto for your own sanity….You are just encouraging the behavior. It’s like you are arguing with a toddler who refuses to eat dinner. Sometimes it’s just easier to send them to bed and close the door instead.

Awh, poor ripjiggen. Did I hurt your feelings again?

mahtofire14 wrote:

Convenient for you the Tigers play old school baseball yet they don’t have the talent to field a AAA team.

Dont you think that maybe, just maybe, their lack of analytics department has something to do with that? Or is that just awfully ironic?

Rocco would have done the same thing as Cash. I don’t like their overthinking, and I don’t get it.

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ripjiggen wrote:</div>
Let it go Mahto for your own sanity….You are just encouraging the behavior. It’s like you are arguing with a toddler who refuses to eat dinner. Sometimes it’s just easier to send them to bed and close the door instead.

Awh, poor ripjiggen. Did I hurt your feelings again?

Nope not at all. Was just giving mahto some parenting advice.

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
Convenient for you the Tigers play old school baseball yet they don’t have the talent to field a AAA team.

Dont you think that maybe, just maybe, their lack of analytics department has something to do with that? Or is that just awfully ironic?

No their scouting department would be the issue. If they had an analytics department they’d be even more awful…….

Ripjiggen, my toddlers don’t argue with me. They are angels…..

I just like getting tbro going and watching him alienate himself more and more…..He just wants to ruin the game even more. That’s all. I think analytics gives these kids something to do so they don’t have to actually watch the game (because they can’t handle sitting still for that long) and still be able to call themselves baseball fans.

Ripjiggen wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ripjiggen wrote:</div>
Let it go Mahto for your own sanity….You are just encouraging the behavior. It’s like you are arguing with a toddler who refuses to eat dinner. Sometimes it’s just easier to send them to bed and close the door instead.

Awh, poor ripjiggen. Did I hurt your feelings again?

Nope not at all. Was just giving mahto some parenting advice.

Thats surprising. You sound butt hurt for some reason. Cant quite wrap my head around why though. Maybe all these numbers are a little confusing to you?

mahtofire14 wrote:

No their scouting department would be the issue. If they had an analytics department they’d be even more awful…….

You’ve never seen the movie Moneyball, have you?

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
No their scouting department would be the issue. If they had an analytics department they’d be even more awful…….

You’ve never seen the movie Moneyball, have you?

I have. It was god awful. Brad Pitt himself couldn’t even make it watchable. Although the casting for the analytics guy was spot on.

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ripjiggen wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ripjiggen wrote:</div>
Let it go Mahto for your own sanity….You are just encouraging the behavior. It’s like you are arguing with a toddler who refuses to eat dinner. Sometimes it’s just easier to send them to bed and close the door instead.

Awh, poor ripjiggen. Did I hurt your feelings again?

Nope not at all. Was just giving mahto some parenting advice.

Thats surprising. You sound butt hurt for some reason. Cant quite wrap my head around why though. Maybe all these numbers are a little confusing to you?

Nope, but keep reaching for those straws straws bud.

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
No their scouting department would be the issue. If they had an analytics department they’d be even more awful…….

You’ve never seen the movie Moneyball, have you?

You know what Moneyball and 2020 have in common? Both teams using analytics LOST IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!!!

Here is a simple breakdown, at least for me.

1) Your ace
2) He’s a former Cy Young winner
3) has thrown 73 pitches
4) has given up 2 scratch singles
5) Betts, Seager, Turner are 0-6 with 6 strikeouts combined
6) Dodgers hitters can’t touch him and THEY know it
7) Nick Anderson had given up a run in 6 straight appearances
8) Dodger hitters could hit Anderson and THEY knew it
9) It’s a win or go home game
10) Every single Rays player on the field & dugout would have let him go rather then haul Anderson in at that point.

I rest my case.

Ripjiggen wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ripjiggen wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ripjiggen wrote:</div>
Let it go Mahto for your own sanity….You are just encouraging the behavior. It’s like you are arguing with a toddler who refuses to eat dinner. Sometimes it’s just easier to send them to bed and close the door instead.

Awh, poor ripjiggen. Did I hurt your feelings again?

Nope not at all. Was just giving mahto some parenting advice.

Thats surprising. You sound butt hurt for some reason. Cant quite wrap my head around why though. Maybe all these numbers are a little confusing to you?

Nope, but keep reaching for those straws straws bud.

Thank you for your input to the conversation everyone else is having. About as educated and thoughtful of a response as I’d expect from you!

Dutchboy wrote:

1) Your ace
2) He’s a former Cy Young winner
3) has thrown 73 pitches
4) has given up 2 scratch singles
5) Betts, Seager, Turner are 0-6 with 6 strikeouts combined
6) Dodgers hitters can’t touch him and THEY know it

Fair point, but conversely:

1. Betts is LADs best hitter
2. He’s a former MVP
3. This will be his 3rd time seeing Snells stuff (and 6th in a week)
4. scratch single, but still tying run on base and potential series winning run at the plate
5. Betts career vs Snell- 7/23 (.304 ba) a homer, two doubles, and more walks than strikeouts.

Everyone forgot about what happened in Snells last start in game 2, didnt they? Snell hadnt given up a hit through 4 2/3 innings and then:
kiki walk
taylor homer
Betts walk (3rd AB)
Seager single (3rd AB)

Cash pulled Snell in a 2-2 game with runners on the corners. Anderson came in and struck out Turner.

Cash pulling Snell in game 6, a win or go home game like you mentioned dutchy, to avoid this from happening again like it juuuust did a few games prior.

Doesnt sound quite as bad now, does it?

Snell had MUCH better command and dominance in game 6 than game 2. It was very evident. Even the Dodgers hitters said they couldn’t touch him last night. A good manager sees that and says eff you to the analytics. Even if it’s gotten them where they are. You just don’t do that to your ace. That’s the whole reason you have an ace. That situation right there.

He knew what he had with Snell (absolute dominance in game 6) and he SHOULD’VE known what he had in Anderson after watching him give up run after run the last six games he pitched in.

There’s no way around it. And the whole sports world knows is coming down on them for being so blind to the actual game that was right in front of their eyes.

Either way, thank GOD it’s over and we can get back to squabbling over the Twins not signing any starting pitching that they won’t let pitch past the 4th inning…….

For me the other consideration is if you win game 6 you have your bullpen and everybody but Snell available for game 7. It’s a gamble worth taking for me because if you don’t win game 6 there is no game 7. Maybe Betts gets a hit, maybe a homer same with Seager but………what if Snell gets them both? Then he gets a chance at Turner. If he completes the inning he gets to go the next inning. Your numbers say Cash did the right thing. The results says it didn’t work. We will never know the results if Snell stays in. Something even you and your numbers have to agree with is Anderson wasn’t the guy in that spot.

Twins decline Romo’s option for 2021. Can’t say I’m surprised. Sad that he was one of our better relievers with a +4 ERA.