Twins 2020

joneser wrote:

They’ve won the division the last two seasons and put together the team that hit the most home runs in the history of MLB.

I’m not saying they’ve done much more than Ryan but I think they’ve shown enough early to have some optimism on where the team is headed. If nothing else they seem to be good enough BS’ers that we’ll be in the mix for a few more free agents than we would be with a guy like Ryan.

I’m hoping as much as the next guy that they do get some results but so far they’re regular-season heroes with no meaningful results.

Dutchboy wrote:

The pitcher we got in that trade was moved to the bullpen every year at play-off time.

Maeda isn’t Kershaw or Buehler. Maeda is our ace not because of his talent (although he was able to beat up the central) but the lack of talent from our other starters.

Dodgers didn’t miss a beat without him & Ryu.

Not sure what your point is or what Kerahaw and Buehler have to do with Graterol/Meada trade. Never called Meada an ace. He was however one of the best starting pitchers in the AL this year however. Graterol is not Aroldis Chapman. He is a middle reliever. I guess with that logic their should be an asterisk next to Bieber’s Cy young this year as he was in the same boat/division. Yeah I guess they beat up the central division that sent three teams to the post season.
My point was they didn’t just give up on him. They traded him to get a starter. You do have to trade something with value to get something with value in return. It is not like they can trade the turtle and get Gerrit Cole in exchange.

And no Graterol was not traded to Boston in the Betts deal.

Graterol is in line to be the Dodgers closer. It was mentioned on MLB Radio that Jensen will close, however if he gets knocked around again it could be Graterol gets the job.

Well, lets not forget they backed into the division title only because Chicago collapsed. Don’t get me wrong. Maeda is a fine pitcher but he wasn’t a ace for the Dodgers, he was just a bottom of the rotation guy.

It really doesn’t matter anyway. Twinks are done yet again.

Again you will have to give up way more in a trade besides a a relief pitcher to get an ace. Even if he is a closer you are not trading Aroldis Chapman for Kershaw. Or Ryan Pressley for Gerrit Cole. I mean let’s be a little realistic here.

Dutchboy wrote:

Graterol is in line to be the Dodgers closer. It was mentioned on MLB Radio that Jensen will close, however if he gets knocked around again it could be Graterol gets the job.

Well, lets not forget they backed into the division title only because Chicago collapsed. Don’t get me wrong. Maeda is a fine pitcher but he wasn’t a ace for the Dodgers, he was just a bottom of the rotation guy.

It really doesn’t matter anyway. Twinks are done yet again.

90% of the pitchers in the league would be bottom of the rotation guys in the Dodgers rotation. That’s a poor argument. I will take Maeda over a relief pitcher that doesn’t locate and only throws one inning any day of the week. I don’t care how hard you throw, you will still get rocked if you can’t locate. Graterol wasn’t exactly great this year either.
His k/9 IP dropped from 9.2 in 2019 to 5.0 this year. For a strikeout flamethrower that is concerning. Maeda is a very good starting pitcher and I’m very happy we have him.

Dutchy does nothing but complain about how the FO does nothing to improve the pitching. Then they trade a young reliever for a legitimate ace + cy young candidate on a long term, team friendly deal and he… complains.

Shocker.

Dutchboy wrote:

They gave up on Pressley
They gave up on Graterol
They gave up on Escobar

Giving up on Garver will just be another name.

We were talking about players they gave up on. I didn’t complain about getting Maeda just said he wasn’t a ace or even a regular starter for the Dodgers which he wasn’t.

If you insist on reading between the lines then yes, I don’t think he is a “ace”. He is the best pitcher the Twins have going right now but that doesn’t make him one of the best in baseball.

Being a Cy Young candidate in 2020 just means you did well over a 60 game schedule which for most guys was 10 starts. A normal season is 30 or more starts.

He did well.

Dutchboy wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
They gave up on Pressley
They gave up on Graterol
They gave up on Escobar

Giving up on Garver will just be another name.

We were talking about players they gave up on. I didn’t complain about getting Maeda just said he wasn’t a ace or even a regular starter for the Dodgers which he wasn’t.

If you insist on reading between the lines then yes, I don’t think he is a “ace”. He is the best pitcher the Twins have going right now but that doesn’t make him one of the best in baseball.

Being a Cy Young candidate in 2020 just means you did well over a 60 game schedule which for most guys was 10 starts. A normal season is 30 or more starts.

He did well.

I don’t think he’s truly an ace either even though he had an “ace” level performance in a shortened season. But he’s certainly a great #2 and WELL worth trading Graterol who really hasn’t done anything yet. I also think you can make the argument that Maeda SHOULD’VE been in the Dodgers’ rotation. It was just their management’s choice.

tbro16 wrote:

a legitimate ace

You really believe that TBro? Really? Maeda is an ace like Brad Radke was an ace. Best pitcher on the staff is by default an ace, but Maeda will never be the ace of a world series winning team or in the discussion of best pitcher in baseball.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
a legitimate ace

You really believe that TBro? Really? Maeda is an ace like Brad Radke was an ace. Best pitcher on the staff is by default an ace, but Maeda will never be the ace of a world series winning team or in the discussion of best pitcher in baseball.

You are right those pitchers don’t exactly get traded very often. At least not until they are no longer an ace.

Ok maybe I stretched the “legitimate ace” a bit but please dont compare him to brad radke lol. This year he was good enough to be the best pitcher on a WS team, but whose to say that’ll continue. We can play the what ifs game all day but theres no denying he was a top 10 pitcher in baseball this year, whatever this year/season means to you is up to you.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
a legitimate ace

You really believe that TBro? Really? Maeda is an ace like Brad Radke was an ace. Best pitcher on the staff is by default an ace, but Maeda will never be the ace of a world series winning team or in the discussion of best pitcher in baseball.

Maeda is MUCH better than Radke. Better stuff, better results. So far. Is he a true ace? No. But Brad Radke was pretty average. Minnesota just loves to think mediocre players are great because they are on our teams.

Funny to watch Graterol tonight, and the commentator was talking about how crazy it was that the Dodgers got him “he was part of the Red Sox trade and they said, here you can have him”. Great catch by Bellinger in the 7th to rob a HR away from Tatis off of Graterol, and to preserve their lead.

Dodgers / Atlanta game is pretty good tonight. They are giving Kershaw all he can handle. The rookie pitcher tonight for Atlanta was outstanding!

They are knocking Graterol around a bit now. 5-1 Braves,bottom 6.

Looks like Graterol would’ve been a perfect Twins playoff pitcher……

I’ll just leave this here……it seems analytics have betrayed themselves. This postseason has been the biggest proof that new age thinking does not win playoff games. Getting guys on base, driving them in does. Great read and made me so happy!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/who-wins-in-october-teams-that-dont-strike-out-11602154800

Won’t get a argument out of me.

mahtofire14 wrote:

I’ll just leave this here……it seems analytics have betrayed themselves. This postseason has been the biggest proof that new age thinking does not win playoff games. Getting guys on base, driving them in does. Great read and made me so happy!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/who-wins-in-october-teams-that-dont-strike-out-11602154800

Dutchboy wrote:

Won’t get a argument out of me.

Yawn. It seems common sense betrayed the person that wrote that article. Rays and Braves are both a game away from the WS… they both also finished top 10 in the league in K% during the regular season. As a matter of fact, since the beginning of the divisional series the Rays and Braves have the two highest K% out of the 8 teams that played (and it wasnt close). They are striking out at a 32.6 and 32.8 percent clip. Other teams range between 20.2 and 29.5 percent. Seems odd, doesnt it?

https://www.theringer.com/2020/10/15/21517482/home-run-wins-playoffs

No. It seems that every team that values hitting for power over strikeouts is getting pounded. The thing you forget about the rays and Braves is that they will move runners, and can play small ball when the homers aren’t coming. There’s your common sense.

mahtofire14 wrote:

The thing you forget about the rays and Braves is that they will move runners, and can play small ball when the homers aren’t coming. There’s your common sense.

Rays and Braves combined for exactly 1 sac bunt the entire regular season. They both strike out A LOT. Braves were 2nd in the league in HRs. Where’s the small ball connection here? Keep trying

I don’t know about you guys but I like these no days off between games. Toss ’em there and let them play. It takes a TEAM to win rather then 2 stud pitchers.

I like it.

Dutchboy wrote:

I don’t know about you guys but I like these no days off between games. Toss ’em there and let them play. It takes a TEAM to win rather then 2 stud pitchers.

I like it.

X2

You seem to think small ball only involves sac hunting. Moving runners over is more than just sac hunting also. It’s situational hitting and putting the ball in play in a direction that moves base runners. This is what BOTH the rays and Braves do well and what the analytical teams don’t give a RIP about. Which is why the Twins can’t score runs, they lose in big games, which is why strikeouts are so high, and the ONLY reason the damn shifts are happening for every freaking batter. Why don’t we have a puke emoji……

I watched the Twins during peak Pirahna days. I, unfortunately, know exactly what small ball entails. You’re incorrect, again though. Twins were 4th in the league in batting average with runners in scoring position. They stranded the fewest number of runners in scoring position per game, at just 2.6. Atlanta was 9th and Tampa bay 22nd in batting average with RISP. Additionally, the Rays led the league in pull % while the Dodgers and Braves were both right in the middle of the league… with the Twins. Rays led the league in K%, like I mentioned, and the Braves weren’t far behind them. They’re not trying to beat the shift or move runners over like you think, they’re just trying to hit the ball hard (and in the air) like everyone else. Only 3 teams hit the ball in the air more often than the Twins this year, they were the Braves, Dodgers, and A’s. Rays were 15th. Keep trying

tbro16 wrote:

I watched the Twins during peak Pirahna days. I, unfortunately, know exactly what small ball entails. You’re incorrect, again though. Twins were 4th in the league in batting average with runners in scoring position. They stranded the fewest number of runners in scoring position per game, at just 2.6. Atlanta was 9th and Tampa bay 22nd in batting average with RISP. Additionally, the Rays led the league in pull % while the Dodgers and Braves were both right in the middle of the league… with the Twins. Rays led the league in K%, like I mentioned, and the Braves weren’t far behind them. They’re not trying to beat the shift or move runners over like you think, they’re just trying to hit the ball hard (and in the air) like everyone else. Only 3 teams hit the ball in the air more often than the Twins this year, they were the Braves, Dodgers, and A’s. Rays were 15th. Keep trying

That’s because they never had anybody on base!!!!! Nice try! Analytics have become so diluted with all the categories it’s become like politics. There’s always a stat out there to skew the argument in your favor even if it’s wrong!

Well aware of that issue, Twins finished in the bottom half of the league in on base % this year. Its a glaring problem that will be A LOT worse if Cruz isn’t back next season. But like I said, 4th in batting average when a runner was in scoring position. Not much more you can ask for situational hitting

mahtofire14 wrote:

There’s always a stat out there to skew the argument in your favor even if it’s wrong!

That’s always the excuse I hear from you and dutchy on why analytics don’t work. But why is it that its so easy for me to spend 5 minutes on fangraphs stat page to prove all of your personal opinions incorrect? Trust me, I don’t have to look very hard

It’s because it’s your personal opinion that you think is proving us incorrect not the stats…..

Also, if you think situational hitting ONLY involved BA with RISP you no less about the game than I thought. Also aren’t you guys always saying batting average is the most overrated stat there is?

Analytics/overthinking just lost the world series for the Rays.

Your ace pitcher gives up his second hit in 6 innings and 76 pitches and you take him out. You deserve to lose the series after that BS move. I hope Snell lets him have it after it’s over.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Analytics/overthinking just lost the world series for the Rays.

Your ace pitcher gives up his second hit in 6 innings and 76 pitches and you take him out. You deserve to lose the series after that BS move. I hope Snell lets him have it after it’s over.

My thoughts exactly