Twins 2020

While yes, generally its pretty common knowledge that you need 2 or 3 legit aces to get anywhere in the playoffs, but there are definite exceptions. Last years Brewers were a game away from the WS w/o anything close to an ace and this years Yankees are the first that come to mind. With that said, both had/have absolutely dominant bullpens… which the Twins also do not have.

Also worth noting that I’ve read that most everyone around Gerrit Cole knows how badly he wants to return to Cali, where he grew up and went to school. Angels and Giants are reportedly ready to throw the bank at him.

FryDog62 wrote:

The difference is Cole G can not only beat but dominate a playoff team like the Yankees… whereas there isn’t one starting pitcher on the current Twins staff that has proven they can. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You need 3 “Stopper” types of starting pitchers to win in the playoff format… not 10 mediocre arms..

Out of curiosity, how many of these “Stopper” arms are in the league? With 30 teams is that number around 60 or is it more like 20? Are there even enough arms of that caliber for each team to have one on their roster? Is it a case where you have a few teams like the LAD, Astros & Nationals that have 8 of them and the remaining are divided amongst the teams competing to make the playoffs with a few more “at large” around the league?

tegg wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>FryDog62 wrote:</div>
The difference is Cole G can not only beat but dominate a playoff team like the Yankees… whereas there isn’t one starting pitcher on the current Twins staff that has proven they can. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You need 3 “Stopper” types of starting pitchers to win in the playoff format… not 10 mediocre arms..

Out of curiosity, how many of these “Stopper” arms are in the league? With 30 teams is that number around 60 or is it more like 20? Are there even enough arms of that caliber for each team to have one on their roster? Is it a case where you have a few teams like the LAD, Astros & Nationals that have 8 of them and the remaining are divided amongst the teams competing to make the playoffs with a few more “at large” around the league?

Definitely not enough to go around, even moreso as ‘super team’ mentalities builds. Off the top of my head, here’s a short list, although every year there are some young guns or ’emerging’ talents that could eventually be more widely recognized(Flaherty, Ryu, Buehler, etc.):

AL East
Sale
Glasnow (maybe)
Snell (maybe)

AL Central
Kluber
Giolito(trending)

AL West
Cole
Verlander
Greinke

NL Central
Flaherty is trending that way

NL East
DeGrom
Syndergaard(?)
Scherzer
Strasburg

NL West
Kershaw
Bumgarner
Buehler(trending)

In the last ~30 years, the Twins have more or less had TWO players that fit this description. Johan and Liriano(for his 2006 year). That’s not to say players of a lesser talent don’t ever rise to the occasion(ie: Jack Morris), but in general we have been devoid of this type of talent for our team history.

Here’s the list of Twins starting pitchers who recorded a season with a WHIP under 1.1(arbitrary cutoff for ‘pretty dominating’ season) since 1960.

Johan Santana (5x)
Bert Blyleven (2x)
Francisco Liriano (1x)
Dave Boswell (1x)

By contrast, Kershaw has 9 such seasons, Verlander/Sale have 7 , Scherzer 6..

Phil, good list above… yes I think you need at least 2 “Stopper” types to go far in the playoff format.

Sometimes you get a long-term ace like Santana and other times you get pitchers that fit that dominant profile for a year or two – or a mixture of both – and the stars align. In 1987 the Twins had Viola and Blyleven and in 1991 they had Morris and Erickson.

From the free agents listed above – I’d take Cole or Strasburg, but reality is we get one or neither.

Here’s to dreamin’ in the off-season!

Here ya go…

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BigWerm wrote:

Here ya go…

My take is – spending a bunch on starting pitching doesn’t guarantee you’ll make it to the World Series – but the chances of getting there without spending top dollar on a few elite pitchers is very low…

FryDog62 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
Here ya go…

My take is – spending a bunch on starting pitching doesn’t guarantee you’ll make it to the World Series – but the chances of getting there without spending top dollar on a few elite pitchers is very low…

My only worry is even if the brass actually spends money, the top arms won’t want to come to flyover country.

Minneapolis/Saint Paul has over 3 million people. Hardly what I’d call fly-over country. They’ve had a culture of mediocrity for decades that starts at the top

ajw wrote:

Minneapolis/Saint Paul has over 3 million people. Hardly what I’d call fly-over country. They’ve had a culture of mediocrity for decades that starts at the top

I don’t care what the population is. This is fly-over country in the sports world. Just the facts. The coasts get all the coverage and most players want to be in the big markets. Not making excuses just stating facts.

That graphic you posted BigWerm says it all. I’m not anti-analytic, there’s a time and place and use for them, but if you want to be playing on national TV in Game 1 of the World Series tonight you need to shell out big money for the best available pitching staff. No need to get cute with it, just sign the top talent to balance out your already offensively good roster.

Dan wrote:

That graphic you posted BigWerm says it all. I’m not anti-analytic, there’s a time and place and use for them, but if you want to be playing on national TV in Game 1 of the World Series tonight you need to shell out big money for the best available pitching staff. No need to get cute with it, just sign the top talent to balance out your already offensively good roster.

True – a potent offense and mediocre pitching can win a division, and even a 101 games…

But given the playoff format – Elite pitching gets you to the World Series…

I’d say after tonight, Gerrit Cole could fetch approx $40m/year…

FryDog62 wrote:

I’d say after tonight, Gerrit Cole could fetch approx $40m/year…

No doubt, scratch him off the Twins list. What a World Series so far!

Home field advantage is so overrated…….

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>FryDog62 wrote:</div>
I’d say after tonight, Gerrit Cole could fetch approx $40m/year…

No doubt, scratch him off the Twins list. What a World Series so far!

I wonder if Cole would cost more if his two “cheerleaders” come with him to each game?

131 players have hit free angency!!!

Let the 2020 Twins spending spree begin!!!!!!!!

mahtofire14 wrote:

131 players have hit free angency!!!

Let the 2020 Twins spending spree begin!!!!!!!!

That’s funny and ranks right up there with “how to catch walleyes….with proof”

The Twins will take another run at it in 10 years or so, so no worries. I’m pretty much used to it.

Twins made a qualifying offer to Odorizzi for $17.8, and declined Martin Perez 2020 option.

Baldelli is 2019 AL Manager of the Year, good for him. Well deserved.

Dan wrote:

Baldelli is 2019 AL Manager of the Year, good for him. Well deserved.

It was deserved, I just hope he doesn’t think it was his pitching decisions from last season earned him the award……

Odorizzi has accepted the Twins qualifying offer and will be back in 2020. Good move considering the Twins only have Berrios locked into the rotation. Now time to make some noise……(hopefully).

Lots of work to do on that rotation but Odo accepting his offer today was good news.

Absolutely. One less hurdle to tackle this winter.

On a side note it was good to see Trout win the MVP, even with a shortened season. I don’t think enough people realize how lucky we are to see a generational talent like that go out every day and quietly own the game for years at a time.

moustachesteve wrote:

Absolutely. One less hurdle to tackle this winter.

On a side note it was good to see Trout win the MVP, even with a shortened season. I don’t think enough people realize how lucky we are to see a generational talent like that go out every day and quietly own the game for years at a time.

He is seriously unbelievable, has a very real shot of going down as THE best ever.

His career WAR sits at 72.5, at age 27.

Some other ‘greats’ through age 27:
Babe Ruth: 50.3
Ted Williams: 45.1 (but missed his age 24, 25, 26 seasons)
Ty Cobb: 69
Mickey Mantle: 68.1

During his breakout rookie year, someone(sportswriter maybe ?) had made a passing comparison to Mickey Mantle and everyone jumped on the guy. It’s crazy to compare someone to Mantle, no way, etc. etc.

But he’s been better than Mantle, and in fact, from a WAR perspective, he’s been better than any player in the history of baseball through the age of 27.

Forty years from now people will say, “Wow, you got to see Mike Trout in his prime, what was that like?”

And we will all be like:
“I don’t really remember, the MLB did absolutely nothing to try and market the best player in the history of the game. I think I remember him doing weather forecasts before the games because he liked meteorology or something.”

philtickelson wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>moustachesteve wrote:</div>

And we will all be like:
“I don’t really remember, the MLB did absolutely nothing to try and market the best player in the history of the game. I think I remember him doing weather forecasts before the games because he liked meteorology or something.”

Haha, spot on.

Twins might need to get things moving…..

White Sox just signed Grandal and are supposedly one of the frontrunners for Zack Wheeler, as are the Twins. If I were them I’d throw out a serious offer to Wheeler before the Sox snatch him up to.

mahtofire14 wrote:

White Sox just signed Grandal and are supposedly one of the frontrunners for Zack Wheeler, as are the Twins. If I were them I’d throw out a serious offer to Wheeler before the Sox snatch him up to.

Saw the same report. Afraid I also saw that there is expected to be a loooot of teams very interested in Wheeler too. Not often do you see the not so overly aggressive Twins FO win a bidding war. I want to say, if I remember right, that Falvey/Levine stated last year they aren’t willing to do player opt outs in any part of a deal. Team or mutual options only. Will be curious to see if they give into that to land a Wheeler-type free agent.

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
White Sox just signed Grandal and are supposedly one of the frontrunners for Zack Wheeler, as are the Twins. If I were them I’d throw out a serious offer to Wheeler before the Sox snatch him up to.

Saw the same report. Afraid I also saw that there is expected to be a loooot of teams very interested in Wheeler too. Not often do you see the not so overly aggressive Twins FO win a bidding war. I want to say, if I remember right, that Falvey/Levine stated last year they aren’t willing to do player opt outs in any part of a deal. Team or mutual options only. Will be curious to see if they give into that to land a Wheeler-type free agent.

Four teams in the race for Wheeler currently including the Twins. That’s why they need to make a very strong offer before the rest. Make it impossible for him to say no.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Four teams in the race for Wheeler currently including the Twins

Oh really? I saw something on Twitter saying otherwise. Essentially said a limited market on Strasburg and Cole, but several teams will be in on Wheeler. Hope I’m wrong. Market projects him for $16-18 mil but I’d be very surprised if he signed for less than $20 mil AAV.

Really bummed that the Sox got Grandal. They’re further along in their rebuild than I think a lot of people realize. I thought I saw that Doogie said that 5 years $84M (avg value of QO each year) would get Wheeler but I doubt that’s right if so many teams are interested