Twins 2020

BigWerm wrote:

I think most thought there was a chance this year with some FA pitching help before the season, or some additions during the season when they had the best record in the league and set the all-time HR record. Which is also why it would be fun to talk about top-end additions for next year, if that were an actual possibility with these owners.

I think if you were to go through the Twins 2019 thread you’ll see that the majority of baseball followers viewed this as a year in the proverbial “window.” When the team started out really well the majority on that thread had high hopes and thought it would be best to strike while the iron was hot. And the Twins had ample opportunity to either sign yet-unsigned free agents or to trade for better players to make a run now.

After the trade deadline the conversation shifted and many already started making excuses for the ownership and management and began looking forward to next year. Some people are happy with the Twins having a trophy case full of “next years” and others want real results.

Many of the recent posters on this thread are correct, they just don’t realize that there are parts to the dissenting view that are also correct. After getting swept and embarrassed against big-league competition in the playoffs of course it looks good that we didn’t give up much at the trade deadline. But to those that keep hammering that out, well it’s easy to say with hindsight. But there was a crowd, myself included, that said “hey, they’re REALLY good offensively this year, maybe they should….try hard to make a run?”

I think to summarize where the team is at and to show that both sides of the argument on IDO have their truths, I believe the following statement to be pretty damn true:

The Twins do have an opportunity to build upon this year, make some transactions, and be even better and possibly advance farther in the next few years. However, they also blew and wasted a real good chance this year, and those chances aren’t guaranteed and don’t come around that often for a team in this state.

I’d be willing to let Rosario go in a trade for a legit starter. I don’t like him as our #4 hitter, way to streaky.
Buxton’s value went up this season. Twins need to put a shock collar on him within 15 feet of an outfield wall.

Mention Minnesota Twins and “Big Papi” laughs…

…he says “cut me loose for nothing and kick me to the side of the road?”

He who laughs last, laughs loudest…

Attachments:

1. 

   BP.jpg
   

kidfish wrote:

I’d be willing to let Rosario go in a trade for a legit starter. I don’t like him as our #4 hitter, way to streaky.
Buxton’s value went up this season. Twins need to put a shock collar on him within 15 feet of an outfield wall.

I agree with trading Rosario for pitching. The problem is you aren’t going to get much for him unless you pair a Kiriloff or Rooker with him. He’s a solid outfielder but as a trading chip for pitching, not so much.

On a side note, I heard an interesting and slightly blood pressure rising comment today on KFAN. In 2018 the Twins received $118 million in revenue sharing. That covered the entire roster’s payout. I’m sure it doesn’t surprise anyone but just gives us all another reason to pile on the Pohlads.

If you are a fan of a professional sports team, you need to STOP defending ownership with reasons like, “Well the Wild spent money and see where it got them! Why throw money down the crapper if we aren’t going to win it all”.

Most of these owners are Billionaires, with a B, three comma club. Carl Pohlad was worth like 3.6 billion dollars when he died.

If you want your team to win, then you should want your owner to spend money, and lots of it. Of course, at the same time you want a good front office to decide how BEST to spend the money(ie: not on Ricky Nolasco).

Carl Pohlad spending an extra $80 Million/year on salary(lol that will never happen) is like 2% of his net worth. Most Americans don’t have a positive net worth, so drawing a parallel is impossible. But if you are someone with $30,000 in the bank, that’s like splurging on a set of $600 rain gear for your Canada trip. Of course that’s a simplified example, but please, please please please stop siding with the owners because ‘spending money didn’t work on a different occasion’.

The Pohlad’s could spend $2.6 BILLION dollars next year and they’d still have more money than every user on this forum and their extended families over the last ten generations have combined, and it’s probably not even close.

A billion dollars is such an astronomical amount, it’s hard to comprehend. You think athletes earn too much money? If you had $3.6 billion cash, and were stupid enough to not have it invested in some way to earn you more money, you could spend $100,000 a day and not run out of money for almost 99 years.

People should hate the Pohlad’s way more than they do, anyone who thinks they view the Twins as anything more than an investment is kidding themselves. Remember when Carlie P. tried to sell the Twins to a North Carolina investor and it fell through because they didn’t get a stadium deal? Or in 2001 when he offered to sell the Twins to the MLB in a contraction deal that only fell through because of a court order binding the Twins to the metrodome?

Stop siding with Billionaires not spending their money.

philtickelson wrote:

If you had $3.6 billion cash, and were stupid enough to not have it invested in some way to earn you more money, you could spend $100,000 a day and not run out of money for almost 99 years.

People should hate the Pohlad’s way more than they do

Stop siding with Billionaires not spending their money.

Well let me start off by saying how anyone spends (or doesn’t) spend their money is not near good enough reason for me to “hate” them.

“Hate” is rather extreme, especially for folks just rooting for a sports team.

And I wonder if you hate the Pohlad’s specifically, or all “rich” people?

Regardless, I thought it might be worth pointing out that the $3.6 billion worth is the Pohlad family which includes some 20 family members. Not just a couple cheapskates denying the signing of multi million $ baseball players.

And you would know (I’m sure) that the $3.6 billion family wealth is not a bundle of cash, but the value of family assets including a conglomerate of business interest/companies including car dealerships and real estate groups like United Properties as well as the Minnesota Twins Baseball Club.

They’re not likely to divest themselves from United Properties or sell a car dealership to sign a couple baseball pitchers.

Yes, sad truth that it is…they may never match the big market teams because even with the TV revenue sharing, they still only earn a fraction of the big market teams for total revenue.

Hey, let’s relax a bit and have a pour of 1962 Alexander Murray.

Care to join me?

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

Hey, let’s relax a bit and have a pour of 1962 Alexander Murray.

Care to join me?

Let me first start by apologizing to anyone offended by my previous comments, I wasn’t intending to call anyone insane or any other insult, just that I think it’s insane to think the Pohlads will start being big spenders now. I’m passionate about this because I was raised (like most of you) a huge Twins fan with Kirby as my childhood idol, and I hate what they have done with the Twins the last 25 years.

I agree with many here that it’s ok to still enjoy the Twins, I just won’t directly give them any of my money. And I agree with both Phil and Andy’s comments here in that I think the Pohlad’s deserve more criticism, but I also don’t expect them to come out of pocket to sign players. The Pohlad’s operate the Twins as a cash cow to fund their other ventures (see their car dealership expansion post Target Field, as well as major stake in MN United among many other things). This is unacceptable imo, after the tax payers of Hennepin County built them a stadium. It is my opinion that they should be pouring those resources back into the team at a much higher percentage than they are. As posted earlier the Twins ENTIRE MLB payroll was paid for via MLB revenue sharing, which means all other revenue (FSN Deal, Tickets, Concessions, Sponsorships, Minor League Revenue etc.) paid their other overhead (admin, minor leagues etc.) and the remainder went into the Pohlad’s coffers, and this is likely over $100 million dollars this year alone. The only control the public has is to criticize this as publicly and often as possible, and that is what I would like to see more of.

Andy when and where can I meet for some of the Alexander Murray, or whatever you are sharing!?!

Hate is a strong word, but that’s my wife rubbing off on me, I’ve become a bit desensitized to that word. Dislike is more accurate.

I just got a Gordon and MacPhail bottling of Longmorn 19 at cask strength, looking for a good occasion to bust that open :). ]

Also, did anyone watch the Nationals/Dodgers game last night? Wow, playoff baseball is so exciting for all non-Twins series. Dave Roberts had some head scratching moves last night though, but props to the Nationals for fighting back.

It’s gonna be three upsets and a sweep for the divisional series. But my prediction that the Cardinals are going to win it all is one step closer to fruition.

The day after the big sweep of the Twins Mark Rosen was talking on the KFAN morning show. He basically said something to the effect of the Twins being at a crossroads and the Pohlads either need to spend enough money to be better or get out of the baseball business.

Obviously it’s pipe dreams for all of us, it’s not like we can enforce it, but I think it’s a good theoretical point. If they’re not actually going to try and get better while in their window, and they didn’t this year, then it’d be really nice if they’d try and move on and let someone else try.

I get the boycott and shaming thing toward the Pohlads. Like Andy stated, what can you do? This is a business, not a game.

I just wonder if we could introduce a bill to tax a portion of the net revenue of sports teams that used public money to build their facilities in an effort to pay back the public money they used. Sort of a penalty tax.

Sort of a liberal tactic but it only seems fair.

The only “fans” that have any pull at all are the current season ticket holders.

philtickelson wrote:

Also, did anyone watch the Nationals/Dodgers game last night? Wow, playoff baseball is so exciting for all non-Twins series. Dave Roberts had some head scratching moves last night though, but props to the Nationals for fighting back.

It’s gonna be three upsets and a sweep for the divisional series. But my prediction that the Cardinals are going to win it all is one step closer to fruition.

That game was awesome! I know people bash baseball during the regular season for being so long and boring (I disagree) but postseason baseball almost never disappoints, unless you’re a Twins fan. Before I moved here I grew up an Orioles fan in the Cal Ripken, Brady Anderson, Mussina era so I have two teams I’m passionate for who couldn’t ever beat the Yanks.

Falvey saying the time is now and the window is open for this team and they are going to approach Pohlad and say it’s time to be aggressive. Says they are going after impact arms.

https://www.mlb.com/twins/news/twins-to-target-impact-pitching-in-offseason

Gibson, Pineda, and Odo all free agents. I would guess that Odo and Pineda are back, which I’m good with. That leaves you with Berrios, Odo, and Pineda (post suspension). Lets just say for reality sake, they can’t get Garrett Cole. I would throw everything you have at Zach Wheeler and Hyun Jin Ryu. That would be a pretty darn nice staff.

As always, we will have to wait and see if they put their $$ where their mouths are……(still hold a small amount of hope).

biggill wrote:

I get the boycott and shaming thing toward the Pohlads. Like Andy stated, what can you do? This is a business, not a game.

X2

It’s a business yes, but I think you can have a little self respect at the same time

They are kind of known for saying nothing most of the time but Falvine seem about as straight-forward in Mahto’s link as I’ve ever heard. I also found it interesting that they recognize last season made MN a more attractive place for free agents. Hopefully they’re right about that.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Falvey saying the time is now and the window is open for this team and they are going to approach Pohlad and say it’s time to be aggressive. Says they are going after impact arms.

https://www.mlb.com/twins/news/twins-to-target-impact-pitching-in-offseason

Gibson, Pineda, and Odo all free agents. I would guess that Odo and Pineda are back, which I’m good with. That leaves you with Berrios, Odo, and Pineda (post suspension). Lets just say for reality sake, they can’t get Garrett Cole. I would throw everything you have at Zach Wheeler and Hyun Jin Ryu. That would be a pretty darn nice staff.

As always, we will have to wait and see if they put their $$ where their mouths are……(still hold a small amount of hope).

What are thoughts on Odo wanting you stay in Minnesota? Given his ideal age and contract potential, I think he takes highest bidder and not much of any home-town discount if any to stay..

Well stated Werm!

Just like any other business, if you don’t like it don’t support them.

I boycotted Cabela’s for a couple years back when they were still popular, they had their big meetings or something at mille lacs casino. Spit in sportsmen’s faces.
Stopped watching the twins much like Werm few years back now as well. Plenty on this site who don’t shop at Gander for it’s presidents comments. Among many other examples.

We all work hard for our money, I know I do, and like hell if I’m gonna give it to an organization that is owned by businessmen that I think are dbags. Will it make a difference, do I expect others to, not at all. But I have my own principles I live by, and it makes me feel better knowing I’m doing what I can to make the team better.

Keep talking about prospects, “next year’s hope”, ace pitchers etc etc. None of it matters. The pohlads will never, NEVER dish out the dough for contracts to keep a roster intact long enough to win deep into the postseason. Have as many good young developing players all you want, they will never be held onto.

I agree Frydog. I heard him talk the other day and he said he’s enjoyed his time here, but his extremely boring demeanor didn’t sell me on that. Probably just lip service. I’d like if they brought him back, but not if they over pay for him. He doesn’t eat enough innings.

I think if there are better offers on the table he will take them, as most players would. No reason for him to take a home-town discount as he only spent two years here.

I think Ryu is probably a true #1, albeit not an overpowering pitcher like Cole/Verlander. Here’s a cool article about how he’s progressed/evolved since coming to the MLB.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27148935/how-rebuilt-ryu-reinvented-become-mlb-most-dominant-pitcher

Wheeler would be a good get if we were one pitcher short, but if he is the ‘highlight’ of offseason signings it will be disappointing. Spotrac has him valued at $23M for whatever that’s worth. If you are going to spend $23M on Wheeler, you might as well just sign a true ace at $30+M.

The last couple years we’ve seen the Twins sign a bunch of short term deals, with hopefully the ultimate goal being payroll flexibility when the window is ‘open’. It is now open, if a championship is a desired outcome of the owners, now is the time to open up the pocketbook.

They should honestly be looking at getting TWO of the following:
Strasburg/Cole/Bumgarner/Darvish/Ryu/Wheeler

and one other solid or reclamation project.

What will actually happen:
re-sign Odo and make a big ‘splash’ by signing FORMER CY YOUNG WINNER Rick Porcello or some other garbage.

Sorry, misread a free agent list, Darvish is unlikely to opt out of his deal…

Speaking of, I’ve been wondering about Strasburg’s likelihood of opting out now that the Nats have put together a run to the NLDS.

moustachesteve wrote:

Speaking of, I’ve been wondering about Strasburg’s likelihood of opting out now that the Nats have put together a run to the NLDS.

I think he will definitely opt out, that might mean just re-upping with the Nationals for more $/year, but I think it’s pretty likely he’ll look for a bigger payday.

philtickelson wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>moustachesteve wrote:</div>
Speaking of, I’ve been wondering about Strasburg’s likelihood of opting out now that the Nats have put together a run to the NLDS.

I think he will definitely opt out, that might mean just re-upping with the Nationals for more $/year, but I think it’s pretty likely he’ll look for a bigger payday.

Yes, I should have clarified that I expect him to pursue a bigger contract regardless but wonder how this playoff run will affect his desire to leave WAS

moustachesteve wrote:

Yes, I should have clarified that I expect him to pursue a bigger contract regardless but wonder how this playoff run will affect his desire to leave WAS

Ahh, gotcha. It will definitely be interesting. If they get into the playoffs with Scherzer/Strasburg they always have a chance to go deep.

I think for him the question will be how many more years can he get guaranteed on a contract. If WAS is willing to sign him through 2026 or 2028, then he probably stays.

If not, I think there will likely be a few teams willing to take on the risk of how good he’ll be in his late 30s, to get 3-5 ‘ace’ years out of him. He’ll be cheaper than Cole I guess lol.

Ryu is a stud. I don’t know if he can win a big game, hell I’m not sure if any of the Dodgers can win a big game. Sure don’t have a good playoff record to back that up.

Strasburg will hit free agency but will resign. I don’t know why but Bumgartner doesn’t do it for me. I’d be going after Wheeler and Ryu HARD. I think they can make a serious run at Cole, I just don’t think he will want to play here. I’d still like to see them try and snatch Mike Minor from the Rangers. Can’t remember if he’s a FA or they’d have to trade for him but I really like the way he pitches. And he’s got a little asshole in him, which is something this team could really use more of.

Sign Gerritt Cole… spend the $30m/year on someone that throws 98 and can beat the Yankees.

FryDog62 wrote:

Sign Gerritt Cole… spend the $30m/year on someone that throws 98 and can beat the Yankees.

Why spend $30M on one player when we could re-sign Gibson, Odo and Pineda for ~$30 million?! That’s THREE players for the price of one!

That’s why I always laugh at people with big 20 foot long fiberglass boats, they’ve spent all this money on those things when I’ve spent far less on THREE of my own 10 foot aluminum boats. I have like 10 more feet of boat all together than them for FAR less money.

philtickelson wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>FryDog62 wrote:</div>
Sign Gerritt Cole… spend the $30m/year on someone that throws 98 and can beat the Yankees.

Why spend $30M on one player when we could re-sign Gibson, Odo and Pineda for ~$30 million?! That’s THREE players for the price of one!

That’s why I always laugh at people with big 20 foot long fiberglass boats, they’ve spent all this money on those things when I’ve spent far less on THREE of my own 10 foot aluminum boats. I have like 10 more feet of boat all together than them for FAR less money.

The difference is Cole G can not only beat but dominate a playoff team like the Yankees… whereas there isn’t one starting pitcher on the current Twins staff that has proven they can. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You need 3 “Stopper” types of starting pitchers to win in the playoff format… not 10 mediocre arms..