Twins 2020

The Pohlads didn’t take a Billion dollars on the Twins. What they did or didn’t do with the soccer has nothing to do with the Twins.

If MLB were to implement a salary cap, what would it be?

Has anyone seen the Pirates payroll? What a joke.

Dutchboy wrote:

The Pohlads didn’t take a Billion dollars on the Twins. What they did or didn’t do with the soccer has nothing to do with the Twins.

It was $350m financed over 30 years, with anticipated annual payments from the sales tax of $36.5M. 30×36.5= $1.095 billion. Sounds like that tax is exceeding their estimates, so it may end up being less but that was the plan. The TIF on the soccer stadium would be in addition to that.

AnotherFisherman wrote:

If MLB were to implement a salary cap, what would it be?

Has anyone seen the Pirates payroll? What a joke.

Agreed they need to institute a salary floor at the very least, until they do you will see more 100 win teams and 40/50 win teams.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
It wouldn’t matter if they signed Scherzer, Strasburg & Trout you would still grind the same old tired “billionaire” line.

Just ignore baseball it will be better for your blood pressure.

I love baseball, and played amateur ball until my shoulder literally fell off and needed to get a shoulder replacement. The reason why I continually post, is because of my love of baseball as well as the Twins, that’s tough to shut off when they won it all twice in your formative years. But I also lived thru the late 90’s and was a partial season ticket holder for the first 3 years of Target Field, and the Pohlad’s are just reaping what they sow imo.

What team did you play for in amateur ball Werm? I played for 8 years after my college career ended.

Dutchboy wrote:

It wouldn’t matter if they signed Scherzer, Strasburg & Trout you would still grind the same old tired “billionaire” line.

Just ignore baseball it will be better for your blood pressure.

Actually, we’d all be saying, “Finally, they are giving it a shot!”

And when it didn’t work out everyone else would come out and say, “See, they should have saved their money or spent it in a different way. I feel bad that they spent so much on player X and it didn’t result in a title, I recommend they never spend money again.”

Just for the record the Timberwolves drink at the public trough, nobody says anything about Taylor. The Vikings drink at the public trough and nobody says anything about the Wilfs. The Wild have nailed the city of St. Paul for years, nobody says anything about their ownership. The soccer team does, the Saints do.

So, you can rip the Pohlads but they do nothing different than any other owner in town. The differences are in how their leagues are structured with salary caps, sharing in all revenue and lack of farm systems to support.

I ripped on pappa Pohlad for years, but that was more about his laughable extortion attempts as anything else. These are his kids, they have learned well and have banking in their blood. They have put a respectable product on the field and anyone who doubts that never lived during the Griffith ownership.

Baseball is a business, no profit, no business.

MLB.com naming the Twins as the deepest roster in baseball. I can’t disagree with them. The pitching, while not elite, is still good enough to be considered deep, especially with the starters we added this year.

https://www.mlb.com/news/minnesota-twins-deepest-lineup-2020

But Pete, they’re using wRC+ for these projections!

moustachesteve wrote:

But Pete, they’re using wRC+ for these projections!

Right! Which is why you have to take it with a grain of salt. But anybody that knows anything about baseball can see they have a stacked lineup.

You know, the BBC Boards have a “beating a dead horse” emoji where a smiley face is clubbing a dead horse. I think it’s about time we add that one on IDO……

In a 5 year major league Twins career my numbers are………..

.237 career average
38 homeruns
114 ops+

Who am I?

Dutchboy wrote:

Just for the record the Timberwolves drink at the public trough, nobody says anything about Taylor. The Vikings drink at the public trough and nobody says anything about the Wilfs. The Wild have nailed the city of St. Paul for years, nobody says anything about their ownership. The soccer team does, the Saints do.

So, you can rip the Pohlads but they do nothing different than any other owner in town. The differences are in how their leagues are structured with salary caps, sharing in all revenue and lack of farm systems to support.

I ripped on pappa Pohlad for years, but that was more about his laughable extortion attempts as anything else. These are his kids, they have learned well and have banking in their blood. They have put a respectable product on the field and anyone who doubts that never lived during the Griffith ownership.

Baseball is a business, no profit, no business.

However,,, putting a great team together, winning year after year, and going deep into the playoffs consistently means more fans, more season ticket holders, more concessions sold, and LOTS more money coming in. Winning also can entice top tier players to want to play for you. everyone likes a winner. You gotta invest in players and coaches to get there. I wonder how hard the twins actually try to sell themselves and their plan to these big name free agents that they “barely” miss out on.

ajw wrote:

However,,, putting a great team together, winning year after year, and going deep into the playoffs consistently means more fans, more season ticket holders, more concessions sold, and LOTS more money coming in. Winning also can entice top tier players to want to play for you. everyone likes a winner. You gotta invest in players and coaches to get there. I wonder how hard the twins actually try to sell themselves and their plan to these big name free agents that they “barely” miss out on.

That’s not in the Pohlads business plan, it’s no secret. A plan like that requires much more risk. That wouldn’t make sense when your current business model works.

Dutchboy wrote:

In a 5 year major league Twins career my numbers are………..

.237 career average
38 homeruns
114 ops+

Who am I?

Hint: He’s also he best defensive outfielder in the league.

Another Hint: Twins were a subpar .500 team without him playing every day last season.

Dutchboy wrote:

In a 5 year major league Twins career my numbers are………..

.237 career average
38 homeruns
114 ops+

Who am I?

Buxton…..need a harder one that that Dutch. Need more advanced analytics to muddy up the possibilities…..

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
In a 5 year major league Twins career my numbers are………..

.237 career average
38 homeruns
114 ops+

Who am I?

Another Hint: Twins were a subpar .500 team without him playing every day last season.

Which has happened………never.

None of Buxton’s numbers matter when he can’t stay on the field. He could have Mike Trout’s analytics and it wouldn’t matter because he’s never on the field. I hope I’m wrong but I envision Royce Lewis’ potential being ruined because Buxton will be gone in two years due to never being healthy and Lewis will be turned into a CFer. They are already getting him time at CF in the minors in preparation……

mahtofire14 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
In a 5 year major league Twins career my numbers are………..

.237 career average
38 homeruns
114 ops+

Who am I?

Another Hint: Twins were a subpar .500 team without him playing every day last season.

Which has happened………never.

Thats interesting because the numbers say otherwise! Twins record by year with and without buxton in the lineup:

2015:
29-17 with Buxton
54-62 without

2016- lets forget that year ever happened, Twins were awful with or without him (but their winning % was still better with him)

2017-
77-63 with Buxton
8-20 without

2018-
14-14 with Buxton
64-70 without

2019-
62-25 with Buxton
39-39 without

So 4 of his 5 years hes been in the bigs the Twins were .500 or better with him on the field and .500 or worse when hes off.

He’s hurt a lot. I’m not defending that. I am defending his importance to the team and how much better they are with him on the field than when he isnt. All I get when I bring analytics up are about how they mean nothing to the game and wins and losses blah blah. Well there ya go.

Wins and losses are all that matters.

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
In a 5 year major league Twins career my numbers are………..

.237 career average
38 homeruns
114 ops+

Who am I?

Another Hint: Twins were a subpar .500 team without him playing every day last season.

Which has happened………never.

Thats interesting because the numbers say otherwise! Twins record by year with and without buxton in the lineup:

2015:
29-17 with Buxton
54-62 without

2016- lets forget that year ever happened, Twins were awful with or without him (but their winning % was still better with him)

2017-
77-63 with Buxton
8-20 without

2018-
14-14 with Buxton
64-70 without

2019-
62-25 with Buxton
39-39 without

So 4 of his 5 years hes been in the bigs the Twins were .500 or better with him on the field and .500 or worse when hes off.

He’s hurt a lot. I’m not defending that. I am defending his importance to the team and how much better they are with him on the field than when he isnt. All I get when I bring analytics up are about how they mean nothing to the game and wins and losses blah blah. Well there ya go.

But that’s what I’m saying Tbro. His analytics don’t matter when he’s not playing. If he’s only staying healthy for half the games a season he’s not very valuable! Nobody is questioning the team is better with him playing. That’s obvious. But it just doesn’t matter when he can’t stay on the field!

mahtofire14 wrote:

You know, the BBC Boards have a “beating a dead horse” emoji where a smiley face is clubbing a dead horse. I think it’s about time we add that one on IDO……

Haha man I’m just ribbing you, but you’re right about that emoji.

Question: What are BBC Boards? I’m googling BBC but all the results are blocked at work!

moustachesteve wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
You know, the BBC Boards have a “beating a dead horse” emoji where a smiley face is clubbing a dead horse. I think it’s about time we add that one on IDO……

Haha man I’m just ribbing you, but you’re right about that emoji.

Question: What are BBC Boards? I’m googling BBC but all the results are blocked at work!

I know Steve it’s all good! The BBC boards are Bass Boat Central’s forums. It’s a very large bass fishing forum.

I think it would be interesting to know if there were other players and who were not in the lineup due to injury when Buxton was down with injury. Was it a combined effect? And were they at full strength when they were winning with him in the line up. I find it hard to believe Buxton is that important no matter what the stats say.

Wasn’t Rosario down about the same time?

critter 1 wrote:

I think it would be interesting to know if there were other players and who were not in the lineup due to injury when Buxton was down with injury. Was it a combined effect? And were they at full strength when they were winning with him in the line up. I find it hard to believe Buxton is that important no matter what the stats say.

I don’t question the boost he gives the team when he plays. It was obvious last season. But he just can’t stay on the field.

Defensive boost yes..hitting not so much. Very average but not as many strikeouts as in the past.

I think the simple fact that he’s been out so much of his career provides a good enough sample size to say that the difference in overall team success is legitimate. His offensive contribution hasn’t been insignificant. The guy is a menace on the base paths and he gets 1.5 bases for every base of XYZ player (making up numbers but you get the point).

moustachesteve wrote:

I think the simple fact that he’s been out so much of his career provides a good enough sample size to say that the difference in overall team success is legitimate.

Thats exactly it. If he only missed a few games here and there I’d say the numbers could be off due to number of different of factors but hes missed SO many games. Like I said before, in 4 of the 5 years Buxton has been on the roster they were .500 or better with him on the field and .500 or worse when hes not. Overall, with the god awful 2016 year included, the Twins are 217-176 when hes on the field and 189-237 when hes not.

So with a 162 game pace, Twins average a 89-73 season when he plays. Twins average a 72-90 season when he’s out.

Too much math for you and I both, but the proof is in the pudding. I cant explain why or how these numbers are the way they are. Clearly the Twins are substantially better when he plays, but the issue is obvious, he doesnt play enough. Cheers to a healthy 2020 season for Buxton

tbro16 wrote:

Too much math for you and I both, but the proof is in the pudding. I cant explain why or how these numbers are the way they are. Clearly the Twins are substantially better when he plays,

I can tell you why. Defense and speed has and always will win. You can hit all the home runs you want (as the Twins showed last year) but if you can’t defend well and have no team speed (which the Twins don’t without Buxton) you won’t win.

mahtofire14 wrote:

I can tell you why. Defense and speed has and always will win. You can hit all the home runs you want (as the Twins showed last year) but if you can’t defend well and have no team speed (which the Twins don’t without Buxton) you won’t win.

You arent wrong at all, defense is so easy to be overlooked in baseball. Its just surprising to me that it makes THAT much of a difference. Should be extra easy for us to notice though, as the Twins have the best defensive OF in baseball as well as the very worst!

Just for fun, if we take out the abysmal 2016 season we are all trying to forget ever existed, the Twins with Buxton in their lineup win at a 98 win pace if brought down to a 162 game sample size.

Is Rosario really rated the worst defensive OF in baseball?

moustachesteve wrote:

Is Rosario really rated the worst defensive OF in baseball?

If he isn’t he should be. It’s the main reason I was hoping to trade him this offseason.