Twins 2020

Lets just shut this thread down. Biggill has already won it.

FryDog62 wrote:

The point is – they need to put another $23m into elite pitching or expect nothing more than advancing to the playoffs occasionally and losing in the first round..

The Wild put out $200 million for a couple “elite” players and they still couldn’t make it past the first round.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Also defined as, “HAVEN’T HAD A PITCHER WHO COULD WIN A BIG GAME SINCE JACK MORRIS”.

Curse…..What a joke. Get a real pitching staff and watch how many postseason games you win.

Well you don’t need to scream…jeepers. People getting really PO’d at each other on this thread…turning as ugly as the Twins team playing the Yankees.

And BTW, there is a curse…

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>FryDog62 wrote:</div>
The point is – they need to put another $23m into elite pitching or expect nothing more than advancing to the playoffs occasionally and losing in the first round..

The Wild put out $200 million for a couple “elite” players and they still couldn’t make it past the first round.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
Also defined as, “HAVEN’T HAD A PITCHER WHO COULD WIN A BIG GAME SINCE JACK MORRIS”.

Curse…..What a joke. Get a real pitching staff and watch how many postseason games you win.

Well you don’t need to scream…jeepers. People getting really PO’d at each other on this thread…turning as ugly as the Twins team playing the Yankees.

And BTW, there is a curse…

Not mad. It just gets frustrating when the sole reason MN sports teams are allowed to be as under achieving as they are is because there’s always an excuse that takes the blame off not being good enough because people around here just can’t seem to handle that being the reason.

Meanwhile….. TB is making it a series against Houston. That should be insult to injury.

Twins couldn’t even win one. The curse makes more sense than any of this other BS

mahtofire14 wrote:

Not mad. It just gets frustrating when the sole reason MN sports teams are allowed to be as under achieving as they are is because there’s always an excuse that takes the blame off not being good enough because people around here just can’t seem to handle that being the reason.

Sure, I realize there are many more passionate about all this than myself…and that can bring out some strong emotions.

IMHO, I would assess this year’s Twins as over achieving. Nobody expected or picked them to win the division much less win over 100 games. Look at it from the other side, their starting rotation was questionable before opening day, their bullpen too. They had injuries, Sano in the beginning and Buxton at the end along with other setbacks…Pineda being a significant one.

And yet they continued to win ’til the end when I thought they’d have folded. Pleasantly surprised.

So…this team I say “over-achieved”

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

And BTW, there is a curse…

Agree. That’s a fact that can be proven by analytics.

lindyrig79 wrote:

Meanwhile….. TB is making it a series against Houston. That should be insult to injury.

Twins couldn’t even win one. The curse makes more sense than any of this other BS

Tampa Bay has great pitching.

I’m with Andy on this one. The season was a success and an over achievement. The Twins could’ve folded when Cleveland pulled ahead a half game but they didn’t and won 101 games.

I’m extremely disappointed in the series with the Yankees. It looked like a different team and Rocco got totally out coached. Dobnak in game 2 when you have Odorizzi there? Dumb move.

This team is young and the core will stay intact. I have hope they will get a few more pieces and make another run next year. Cleveland will be good again, the Yankees and astros will be the cream of the crop. Baseball is a funny game….you never what will happen.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Not mad. It just gets frustrating when the sole reason MN sports teams are allowed to be as under achieving as they are is because there’s always an excuse that takes the blame off not being good enough because people around here just can’t seem to handle that being the reason.

The only excuse is that they weren’t good enough. I totally agree.

Every team has deficiencies, injuries, unexpected events like suspensions, bad contracts, bad trades, missed opportunities, etc… 3 of those teams have exited the playoffs, 7 are still playing.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Tampa Bay has great pitching.

But….. I thought we already established that Houston had the best pitching (by far).

And also that better pitching wouldn’t really have helped in the Twins case. The bats didn’t show up. None of it makes sense which probably explains all the frustration

Not to mention….. both of the series in the National League are competitive. Twins are the only team to be swept. If that isn’t enough for embarrassment 0-16 in the postseason should be.

lindyrig79 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
Tampa Bay has great pitching.

But….. I thought we already established that Houston had the best pitching (by far).

And also that better pitching wouldn’t really have helped in the Twins case. The bats didn’t show up. None of it makes sense which probably explains all the frustration

They do, but Houston’s lineup is not as strong as the Yankees. Better pitching against Houston’s lineup is more favorable than poor Twins pitching against a crazy tough Yankees lineup. A great pitching staff can get beat every now and then when the opponent is only giving up a couple runs as opposed to the Twins staff who was giving up 7-10 in our games.

As you said though, none of it matters anymore. The only thing that will make this team competitive in the postseason is top caliber arms. Call it a curse (which it isn’t) or whatever you want. That’s the answer.

Houston finished 1st in batting average, SLG, OPS, OBP and OPS. 3rd in home runs and runs scored.

biggill wrote:

Houston finished 1st in batting average, SLG, OPS, OBP and OPS. 3rd in home runs and runs scored.

Hmmmmm. Batting average I would expect, but I’m surprised they were first in the rest.

Rays just defeat Houston to even their series and force game 5.

One final nugget to help everyone sleep good tonight is that 3 of the 4 divisional series will go the full 5 games.

Only one did not and that’s the tough one to digest.

And one last thing to chew on…

Houston 2019 opening payroll…$177.44 million

Tampa Rays…$68.98 million

Twins…$113.59 million

The Pohlads got exactly what they needed….a season like this to sell hope and line their pockets with season ticket sales.

eyeguy507 wrote:

The Pohlads got exactly what they needed….a season like this to sell hope and line their pockets with season ticket sales.

We have a winner!!!!

It was still fun

mahtofire14 wrote:

Hmmmmm. Batting average I would expect, but I’m surprised they were first in the rest.

Add in the pitching numbers and the data suggests they are unbeatable in any series.

We’ll see on Thursday. I think it would be good for the overachieving teams like the twins if they lost. It probably makes signing top tier players slightly harder. Slightly.

FryDog62 wrote:
The point is – they need to put another $23m into elite pitching or expect nothing more than advancing to the playoffs occasionally and losing in the first round..

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:
The Wild put out $200 million for a couple “elite” players and they still couldn’t make it past the first round.”
————————————————
It’s the risk you take to build a winner. Proven, elite pitchers are arguably the highest sought after and most expensive commodity in all professional sports. And some flop. But the teams that win have them… and usually not just one…

To use the same formula that lacks elite pitching and expecting superior results is the definition of insanity.

My point is if you’re going to spend $23m better to spend on an impact potential pitcher than a base-hitting First baseman… or on 3 Ricky Nolasco’s off the scrap heap..

tbro16 wrote:

Lets just shut this thread down. Biggill has already won it.

Perhaps you two can go get a room, and Biggill can whisper sweet nothings in TBro’s ear about the WS’ from before TBro was even born and how that makes the Pohlads great owners. Never mind that we are creeping up on the 30 year anniversary of the last WS, and how all the missed opportunities since then might be more reflective of the current ownership’s business model not being concerned with winning. At all. But keep the personal attacks coming, I don’t mind you deflecting your protection of the Billionaire Babies and their unending government handouts at me. I ain’t mad at you, it took me a long time to see the light too!

BigWerm wrote:

Perhaps you two can go get a room, and Biggill can whisper sweet nothings in TBro’s ear about the WS’ from before TBro was even born and how that makes the Pohlads great owners. Never mind that we are creeping up on the 30 year anniversary of the last WS, and how all the missed opportunities since then might be more reflective of the current ownership’s business model not being concerned with winning. At all. But keep the personal attacks coming, I don’t mind you deflecting your protection of the Billionaire Babies and their unending government handouts at me. I ain’t mad at you, it took me a long time to see the light too!

What makes you think the rest of us don’t see the light? What has your 9 year so called “boycott” gotten you?

For the record, you’re the one throwing insults.

Matt Moen wrote:

Those of you that continue to promote getting rid of Buxton don’t pay attention to the details. First, he’s one of the best value players in baseball. His WAR is something above 3 and they pay him less than $2m. They also have him locked up for another couple years on a very favorable contract.

The Twins winning percentage with him in the lineup is substantially higher than without. He effects the game and how other teams gameplan for the Twins. His improvement in 2019 shows he can be a core contributor to this team for years.

How much value are we really getting from a guy that has been on the field only 115 games over the last 2 seasons?

Sorry guys, but $23M isn’t going to get it done if you are looking for an elite pitcher, add another $10M onto that number and you’ll be close.

Cole will get $30-35M, Strasburg will opt out and get ~$30M/year.

Twins should just sign them both :).

$23M miiiight be able to get you Hyun-Jin-Ryu(but probably not) or a Yu Darvish but I’m not sure about that.

Brian B wrote:

How much value are we really getting from a guy that has been on the field only 115 games over the last 2 seasons?

Limiting it to the last two seasons horribly skews this because of 2018’s 28 games and whopping 94 plate appearances, but over that period he still gave you a cumulative 2.4 WAR, saved you tons of runs on defense, and made a total of $2,046,210. That’s the definition of value.

Limiting it to the last two seasons horribly skews this because of 2018’s 28 games and whopping 94 plate appearances, but over that period he still gave you a cumulative 2.4 WAR, saved you tons of runs on defense, and made a total of $2,046,210. That’s the definition of value.
[/quote]

Sure, he’s cheap on the books right now. Yes he’s a game changer in the outfield. Bottom line is we need a #1 pitcher. If the right offer presents itself I hope we take it.
Exit stage left

biggill wrote:

What makes you think the rest of us don’t see the light? What has your 9 year so called “boycott” gotten you?

For the record, you’re the one throwing insults.

To question #1: The fact that anyone thinks it will be different this year. The Pohlads have shown they won’t make the big moves required to compete, over and over again, despite the lies they told everyone to get a stadium. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. So saying it’s insane to think this offseason will be different is not an insult to you or anyone, just a flaw in your fandom/fanaticism which I used to share.

To Question #2: My boycott has kept thousands of my dollars in my pocket, and out of the Pohlads, enabled me to do whatever I want all summer and raise my son on legitimate MLB franchises and local town team ball. So a pretty HUGE win in my humble opinion.

And finally I was not insulting anyone, just pointing out the insanity in investing time and energy into the modern day Pohlad’s Twins Business. Go back and read your and TBro’s responses directed at me for actual personal attacks, that again I ain’t mad at you for.

BigWerm wrote:

To question #1: The fact that anyone thinks it will be different this year.

Who? Who are you talking about? Who thought it would be different this year? Or next year?

You call everyone insane for not blaming the Pohlads for not spending the money they promised to in every chance they get.

I think if you actually read what people had to say here you’d see no one is defending how much the Pohlads have spent on this team nor do they defend their crooked stadium deal.

Fact is, you’ve pumped more money in the Pohlads pocket in one week than I have in a lifetime. Somehow, we’re the pocket protectors. The spending issue has been a part of the conversation since the early 90’. I’ve pointed out the twins payroll is $9M less than last year and somehow they couldn’t find it in their hearts to invest it in the team. I don’t think anyone said at the beginning of this season that they didn’t need more starting pitching. No one here thought this was a championship team at any point and no one here thinks they are next season.

You want to talk about insanity?

biggill wrote:

No one here thought this was a championship team at any point and no one here thinks they are next season.

I think most thought there was a chance this year with some FA pitching help before the season, or some additions during the season when they had the best record in the league and set the all-time HR record. Which is also why it would be fun to talk about top-end additions for next year, if that were an actual possibility with these owners.

I don’t expect the Twins ownership to shell out a bunch of money for a top tier pitcher (or position player), but I sure like to wish and hope that they do. That’s the fan in me that wishes that. But the reality part of me knows that’s highly unlikely. It’s pretty easy to accept the fact that ownership doesn’t open the pocket books to pay top tier FAs. No need to be overly bitter about it and assume that any fan doesn’t share that outspoken bitterness, assumes that the ownership will dole out the big bucks.

Can Kirk Cousin pitch?

4 men’s pro sports over how many years, and 2 world series wins. Biblically bad sums up Minnesota sports.

Do the math and we aren’t due for another championship for a long, long time.

Looking at the Cousins signing and how awful the wild have been in the post season is reason enough not to spend money, just to spend money. It’s frustrating they didn’t make an attempt at a couple good pitchers, but more money kept in their pockets.

This town looks at making the playoffs a success. The arrogance and lack of humility to except greater things just isn’t in most Minnesotans nature and the brain trust of the Pohlad’s knows that. It’s a brilliant business model and they keep rolling in the dough. Nothing will change with not chasing championships.