Dodgers only had two top line starters, Kershaw & Buehler after that was Ryu & Hill. So last year he maybe deserved the trip to the pen but previous years when Ryu was nothing he still couldn’t beat him out.
Like I said I don’t care. For the Twinks to get beyond the first round Pinada will need to be the 3 not Meadea or Hill.
Anyone want to play a game? Games are fun. These are screenshots of 4 diagrams of common statistics that are more predicative to a pitchers worth than W-L record and ERA. Two of these players were free agents this year and the other two were starters on contracts but were either heavily rumored to be dealt or were actually traded.
Can you guess who is who? Cmon, its February and I’m bored.
If I get any takers, label them like so-
A B
C D
Screen-Shot-2020-02-05-at-4.16.20-PM-copy.jpg
Screen-Shot-2020-02-05-at-4.17.09-PM-copy.jpg
Screen-Shot-2020-02-05-at-4.17.47-PM-copy.jpg
Screen-Shot-2020-02-05-at-4.15.51-PM-copy.jpg
I can’t play. Those stats mean nothing to me.
I can’t play. Those stats mean nothing to me.
Well that certainly isn’t a surprise 
At least throw out the names, so there is a chance of getting it right. But I’d guess the new Twins pitcher is D.
I can’t play. Those stats mean nothing to me.
🤣🤣😅😂😂🤣
Big Werm is right, Maeda is in there somewhere. Along with Wheeler, Sale, and Keuchel.
I think I know the answer. Based on analytics Maeda is the best starting pitcher in the game right now…… 
Sorry Tbro….Couldn’t resist. Those charts give me a headache. I had a whole novel written out here on how I don’t understand why the amount of runs a pitcher gives up doesn’t seem to matter to analytics guys when that is how you win or lose and ultimately shows you if a pitcher is able to stop teams from scoring. I ended up erasing it all because of the endless mind numbing debate we’d enter into again……
I can’t play. Those stats mean nothing to me.
X2….
I’ll take Sale, which one is he? The other 3 are mediocre pitchers.
Anyone want to play a game? Games are fun.
Is this your way of tricking us into paying attention to analytics??? Gotta get up earlier than that! 
I’ll take Sale, which one is he? The other 3 are mediocre pitchers.
I don’t understand why the amount of runs a pitcher gives up doesn’t seem to matter to analytics guys
Funny you both bring that up! According to mahto and other anti-analytic folks’ favorite stat, ERA, Sale was the worst of the four pitchers last year. His 4.4 ERA was about a half run worse than Maeda, Wheeler, and Keuchel. He’s also making 10x the money Maeda is 
Do agree that ERA has a time and a place but it doesnt tell the full story. Assumes all defenses are equal and all ballparks are the same size. Earned runs allowed is a nice measure of how each individual start goes, just doesnt always tell the whole story for an entire season. Too much luck/bad bounce involved. ERA should be used along side hard hit rate, xBA, and xOBA (x simply means expected), among others.
endless mind numbing debate
Pretty much summarizes this entire website, especially in the winter. Shoot it. I wont be offended 
Deal on hold Boston concerned about medical exam of Graterol.
Bottom line is that The Twins may have to rely on Maeda to be a top 3 starter in their rotation; whereas on a true Championship Series caliber team he was a #4-6 starter. That is where the realization comes in that the Twins still aren’t in a position to compete deep into the playoffs.
And yes there are stats out there that suggest Maeda has top-end stuff – but if you read this excerpt about how he was used (and not used) by his former team, you realize that many of the stats today can be skewed to support a position that he’s better than we think/hope:
“The Dodgers’ plan with Maeda (to protect him), was to minimize his exposure to opponents for the third time through the batting order in any game. That prevented Maeda from running into trouble as batters grew accustomed to his two-pitch combinations.“
Top of the rotation starters aren’t limited to 2 times through the batting order and then “hooked” for a middle reliever like Maeda was in LA. He is a #4 or #5 starter at best on a Championship/World Series caliber team. And remeber there aren’t #4/5 starters in the current playoff format with so many days off in between. All you need are 3 top starters. Really, really good ones. In the end, when it counts in the playoffs, Maeda should probably be a bullpen guy (like Graterol would have been).
In the end, Maeda may help us contend during the regular season, but if he ends up being a top 3 starter in our rotation, it’s a reflection we still lack the horses to go deep in the playoffs.
Bottom line is that The Twins may have to rely on Maeda to be a top 3 starter in their rotation; whereas on a true Championship Series caliber team he was a #4-6 starter. There is where the realization comes in that the Twins still aren’t in a position to compete deep into the playoffs.
And yes there are stats out there that suggest Maeda has top-end stuff – but if you read this excerpt about how he was used (and not used) by his former team, you realize that many of the stats today can be skewed to support a position that he’s better than we think:
“The Dodgers’ plan with Maeda (to protect him), was to minimize his exposure to opponents for the third time through the batting order in any game. That prevented Maeda from running into trouble as batters grew accustomed to his two-pitch combinations.“
Top of the rotation starters aren’t limited to 2 times through the batting order and then “hooked” for a middle reliever like Maeda was in LA. He is a #4 or #5 starter at best on a Championship/World Series caliber team. And remeber there aren’t #4/5 starters in the current playoff format with so many days off in between. All you need are 3 top starters. Really, really good ones. In the end, when it counts Maeda should probably be a bullpen guy (like Graterol would have been).
In the end, Maeda May help us compete during the regular season, but if he ends up being a top 3 starter in our rotation, it’s a reflection we still lack the horses to go deep in the playoffs.
Frydog, almost every team in the bigs is trying to limit their pitchers from going through the order a third time. I don’t see that as much of a reflection on Maeda. And for the 98th time, no one is saying that this move is making the Twins a World Series contender. And you all just might get your wish on getting your relief pitcher back. His medical a don’t seem to be checking out to Boston’s liking.
Now we all can suffer through more Dobnak/Smeltzer starts.
Sale had one, yes one rough season in a decade. I’ll chalk it up as a mirage since many great pitchers had similar results due to juiced balls. His salary is high because of his consistency and no way the Twins take that on, but if you give me the option of who gets game 1 in the playoffs…..I’ll take Sale with one arm….preferably his left, over this Kenny guy 10 out of 10 times.
You don’t need advanced stats to see the talent gap.
Deal on hold Boston concerned about medical exam of Graterol.
There had to be a reason since they refused to include him in any trade last year. I find it comical when these pro franchises say certain guys are “untouchable”. Anyone is available for the right price.
I’m kind of surprised that Boston wouldn’t know about Graterol’s arm issues. Unless there is something new (which I don’t know what would’ve happened) all his history is common knowledge. Seems odd.
Oh and by the way, Maeda has almost identical numbers as Berrios and has a higher k rate…..getting another Berrios for a one inning bullpen arm (which is reportedly about to fall off) is fine with me.
Hopefully it still goes through.
Boston absolutely knew about Graterol. His medical history was no secret, nor was the Twins’ assessment that he wasn’t a fit for SP. They’re balking now because of the PR blowback of getting rid of Betts. Simple as that. Plus the Twins have the least incentive of all teams in this deal to make sure it goes through. If BOS wants more they can take it up with LAD.
Agreed! I have no idea how medical clearance works with trades but I won’t believe for a second that Boston found something there that they didn’t already know. They would have done their due diligence before ever accepting the offer in the first place. What changed?
Good work Big Werm, he got Maeda correct. He and Wheeler had very similar numbers last year. Sale all over the board. Keuchel was not so hot.
A- Sale
B- Wheeler
C- Keuchel
D- Maeda
I don’t understand how Boston can hold up this whole trade because they clearly didn’t do their homework on Graterol. This is all on Boston from what I can tell. They agreed to the trade, why let them hold it up and then even demand more from the Twins? Heard they are asking for another top ten prospect AND Graterol. Thank God it sounds like the Twins are saying F off!
They are holding it up because of the blowback from the fan base. Boston fans feel they got absolutely robbed losing Betts & Price and getting only one piece back (Verdugo?) that might turn into something. On MLB radio they were speculating they are trying to get the Dodgers to toss in another guy of value.
Unless the Twins agree to change the deal I think it stands from the Twins standpoint.
Theres no doubt. Some are trying to claim this is standard procedure during the offseason when teams have more time to look at medicals blah blah. BS. I’m with ya Dutch, like most Twins fans. Absurd this has dragged on as long as it has. Manfred has not made very many friends this offseason.. good lord. Whatever he did to benefit the players in the Astros scandal he has lost with the MLBPA for this nonsense.
Lots of moving parts on this. This is also holding up a trade of Joc Peterson and Ross Stripling from the Dodgers to the Angles.
Oh, BTW spring training is starting within a week for most clubs and the Red Sox still haven’t named a manager. 
According to the Strib, the Twins have pulled out of the deal.
Yep. Twins are out. That’s BS the Twins have to lose out on this deal because the Sox decided Graterol isn’t what they thought he was. We got screwed in this.
Well, only if you think Maeda is better than Graterol.
Graterol isn’t proven yet….Maeda is and he is a 4 or 3 at best. This may turn out best for the Twinks. Now that everybody knows the Twinks will move him more offers will come. All teams value players differently, might be a team out there sees a huge upside for Graterol and is willing to pay for it.
Nothing gained, nothing loss.
Well, only if you think Maeda is better than Graterol.
Graterol isn’t proven yet….Maeda is and he is a 4 or 3 at best. This may turn out best for the Twinks. Now that everybody knows the Twinks will move him more offers will come. All teams value players differently, might be a team out there sees a huge upside for Graterol and is willing to pay for it.
Nothing gained, nothing loss.
I will take an above average starting pitcher over Graterol all day long. This team needs a starter over a guy that was mediocre out of the pen last year. We got screwed.
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