Twins 2020

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>moustachesteve wrote:</div>
He’s awful in the booth because his disdain for the game is harmful for the growth of baseball. Kids watching are getting 9 innings of “This was better back in the day. That was better back in the day. My dad could beat up your dad.” If he could apply his baseball knowledge to lend insight rather than just constantly trashing the sport it would be preferable.

Thank you for properly explaining my exact thoughts, I couldnt have said it any better myself. Its just frustrating for me to listen to him talk about how baseball players in his day were so much bigger, better, faster, stronger, and smarter about the game then than they are now, when that, in my opinion, is vehemently false. I just wish FSN would be better about education on the “new age” baseball we are just beginning to see in their broadcasts instead of Morris up there absolutely trashing it.

But careful moustachesteve, dont mention high spin rates. Thats considered analytics. It’s not accepted here.

Maybe it’s because it’s making the game really hard to watch. Turning it into numbers and math equations and not baseball. Maybe he is the only guy willing to say it on TV. That’s my stance. I’ve never heard him say players were bigger and faster in his day. That is ridiculous if he has said that. They were much better ballplayers though. I’m sure analytics say otherwise but every players these days can only do one or two things well. Unless you’re Mike Trout. He doesn’t care about the spotlight, he doesn’t care about his WAR or his BA+OBP-HRxSB squared. He just wants to win. Everything is so specialized now and it’s just horrible to watch. It’s going to suck for managers but I’m personally happy the 3 batter rule is going into effect. I didn’t want to sit through anymore 3 pitchers for three batter innings anymore.

I’ve said it in these threads before and I’ll say it again. I’m not against analytics. I’m against them taking over the game, and that’s what is happening. I bet most of these guys would rather have the games played out on a computer so their type A brains wouldn’t have to deal with being wrong some of the time.

The nuances and flow of the game has been completely ruined and that’s why us “old timers” are pissed off. I know the millenials out there don’t care about any of that kind of stuff but it has made the game I spent 28/33 years of my life playing and coaching, almost unwatchable.

Or is that just because I’m a Twins fan….

Jeez tbro the way you describe Morris call a game sort of reminds me of how you respond in this thread.

None of you think about the game the right way…in my day analytics…. robble robble robble

Two very different views on what the game should be.

Boy posting my own opinion on a public thread calls for personal shots according to crappie. Thats two straight posts from him! If youre gonna call me out at least add a little to the conversation while you’re at it.

Anyway, I understand your reasonings for hating the way baseball has transformed substantially in just the last few years. Hell, former players even say they dont like watching the game anymore. All the strikeouts, low batting averages, pimping homers, shifts, etc. But I dont think teams, or the league, are going to make big changes to prevent any of those from happening for the “old school” baseball fans. I dont see this as just a phase either. The game has changed, for better or for worse, so i think the best way for the MLB to keep its fans it already has and then continue to add more, is using broadcasts booths as a way to spread knowledge to its listeners. Using displays, charts, graphs, among others, to make all these crazy numbers interesting is very possible if done right. I personally prefer objective information over subjective opinion. Some may not, and wont be willing to acclimate to the “new age” baseball we see now. But you cant ignore the changes in the booth when the changes are blatantly obvious on the field. Morris does the opposite.

If you dont like it and disagree with me for it, thats fine. I respect it.

Every decision on the field is backed by numbers to improve team outcomes. Thats why there are shifts, pitching changes, no sac bunting or stealing bases, all that. Yes, even type of pitch and its location, mahto. They all want to win so badly that both hitters and pitchers change their approach every at bat to improve their outcomes. They do this to prevent the other team from scoring runs. They also do it to score more runs themselves. Thats how you win. (they really need a sarcasm font)

I get its hated by a lot of people. Baseball can be looked at as one giant math equation or science experiment now. But these guys devote their entire lives to this information. Teams spend millions and millions of dollars on it yearly. I have no problem for you guys thinking its wrong, and disagreeing with me for it, but its just kinda the way it is now. Better to adjust and actually enjoy what you’re watching than vehemently disagree with it, right?

Man I wish we could have signed Felix Hernandez to a deal like this, very low risk, high reward for the team.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28525234/felix-hernandez-gets-minor-league-deal-braves

Wow, that king Felix deal is a steal.

I completely understand why people don’t like the direction baseball has taken. It definitely makes for a worse product to watch. Ultimately, MLB needs to balance things out eventually. It’s all about $ that come in tickets and viewership. Longer games = more advertisements which works to a point until viewers and potential attendees quit watching. It’s a balancing act.

One thing I don’t think you can argue is that the new approach works ie translates to wins. It might be less entertaining to watch but the entire sport wouldn’t be doing it if it didn’t improve expected outcomes. Heck, some teams don’t even have scouts anymore!

mahtofire14 wrote:

Two very different views on what the game should be.

I think this sums it up well. We all have our preferences and I think everyone, even those of us who embrace the analytics, would prefer a faster paced game with more visible, active strategy rather than behind the scenes. It’s a matter of whether baseball should be entertainment or should be about wins. Those two things don’t 100% align and it’s up to MLB to decide which direction to go.

moustachesteve wrote:

Wow, that king Felix deal is a steal.

I completely understand why people don’t like the direction baseball has taken. It definitely makes for a worse product to watch. Ultimately, MLB needs to balance things out eventually. It’s all about $ that come in tickets and viewership. Longer games = more advertisements which works to a point until viewers and potential attendees quit watching. It’s a balancing act.

One thing I don’t think you can argue is that the new approach works ie translates to wins. It might be less entertaining to watch but the entire sport wouldn’t be doing it if it didn’t improve expected outcomes. Heck, some teams don’t even have scouts anymore!

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
Two very different views on what the game should be.

I think this sums it up well. We all have our preferences and I think everyone, even those of us who embrace the analytics, would prefer a faster paced game with more visible, active strategy rather than behind the scenes. It’s a matter of whether baseball should be entertainment or should be about wins. Those two things don’t 100% align and it’s up to MLB to decide which direction to go.

I was thinking the same thing out Felix but the more I thought about it the more I realized I was just being nostalgic. I think he’s done. It’s sad because of how absolutely dominant he was in his prime but he’s just not that guy anymore. I think I just wanted the chance to be part of his story and the small chance that he has a solid year.

When it comes to analytics I think my biggest problem (other than it taking over the game) is that they (or maybe it’s just the Twins) don’t use it enough in tandem with the ebbs and flows of the game. Take the shifting for example. They’ll swing a shift over the the left side of the infield for a pull hitter and then pitch him hard outside (making it incredibly easy, even for a pull hitter to go oppo) instead of throwing off speed. Shifts WILL NOT WORK unless you are enticing the batter to hit into the shift with correct pitching selection.

Analytics would be much more effective if they worked in tandem with old school theories and strategies instead of constantly trying to disprove each other. That would make everyone happy but the analytics people just want to prove that they’re smarter than everyone because they all are Ivy League math hacks. I don’t care how long they have been studying analytics, There are so many outliers in the game that they will never be more than occasionally correct in predicting outcomes. The game still has to be played.

tbro16 wrote:

Better to adjust and actually enjoy what you’re watching than vehemently disagree with it, right?

Thats the problem though Tbro. It’s not enjoyable anymore. Look at how complicated the NFL has gotten with all it’s penalties and reviews. The game starts and stops for 3 minutes after every play. This is the way baseball is trending. Hell we’re already there. Analytics just makes it worse.

mahtofire14 wrote:

When it comes to analytics I think my biggest problem (other than it taking over the game) is that they (or maybe it’s just the Twins) don’t use it enough in tandem with the ebbs and flows of the game. Take the shifting for example. They’ll swing a shift over the the left side of the infield for a pull hitter and then pitch him hard outside (making it incredibly easy, even for a pull hitter to go oppo) instead of throwing off speed. Shifts WILL NOT WORK unless you are enticing the batter to hit into the shift with correct pitching selection.

See I can never know for sure, but that is some day one stuff right there. I have to assume that these guys are very familiar with that. Sure, its ivy league nerds running the numbers, but the Twins have a “field coach” in their dugout and part of their job is to properly position players. Atleast it was for Pickler in the Molitor days, that may have changed since. Either way, I would have to imagine a major league pitcher and catcher are well versed with that by now.

In baseball its the # of pitching changes and not enough balls in play, in football its the refs and kaepernick, basketball its the prima donna flopping and consistent traveling. Feel like theres always something for fans and media, alike, to complain about in every sport but yet revenue continues to climb higher and higher.

Every football team that ever existed was run first until analytics showed passing has better outcomes. Every basketball team that ever existed wanted to “dominate the paint” until analytics showed shooting 3s is more efficient. Who is to say baseball is any different with their recent shift in strategy from small ball and pitching to contact to homeruns and strikeouts? Hell, In my workplace people above me make decisions based on analytics for better patient outcomes. I’m sure your workplace, whatever you do, does the same! Analytics isnt some baseball-only fad for a few years. Not sure why the word is hated so much here when they probably used them to build the website in the first place!! lol, rant over. Sorry

Back to baseball

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
When it comes to analytics I think my biggest problem (other than it taking over the game) is that they (or maybe it’s just the Twins) don’t use it enough in tandem with the ebbs and flows of the game. Take the shifting for example. They’ll swing a shift over the the left side of the infield for a pull hitter and then pitch him hard outside (making it incredibly easy, even for a pull hitter to go oppo) instead of throwing off speed. Shifts WILL NOT WORK unless you are enticing the batter to hit into the shift with correct pitching selection.

See I can never know for sure, but that is some day one stuff right there. I have to assume that these guys are very familiar with that. Sure, its ivy league nerds running the numbers, but the Twins have a “field coach” in their dugout and part of their job is to properly position players. Atleast it was for Pickler in the Molitor days, that may have changed since. Either way, I would have to imagine a major league pitcher and catcher are well versed with that by now.

That’s exactly my point Tbro. They need to work together. I’ll be the first to criticize previous coaching of this club. It’s been horrendous, especially while Molitor was here. Since they started shifting to the point of nauseousness, the Twins have consistently failed at getting batters to hit into their shifts. And most of the time it was because of poor pitch selection and location. I know pitchers can miss their spots but I’m talking about the catcher setting up in said wrong location. I don’t care if small ball isn’t the “way” anymore but I honestly get tired of the home run or strikeout game it has turned into. All the subtleties that made the game so great are now gone.

Well it is a shadow of it’s self for many of us.

Add in the fact that they are going to vote in all the steroid users and cheaters in the game and it makes me wonder if it’s even worth paying attention anymore.

Well didnt you hear the big news Dutchy?? Astros players will apologize for their actions when they report to spring training

What a damn joke. Cant deny how poorly the MLB handled the Astros scandal

I definitely think the players should have gotten punished, but I definitely think that would have to be handled delicately, and I’m not sure how. For one you have the players union, and every talking head on places like ESPN thinks that part of the reason could be that MLB didn’t want to have to go through that fight (which says a lot about the old line about unions fighting for the guilty). Also, look at Marwin Gonzalez, he has probably his best year in Houston….do we punish him now that he’s with the Twins?

There aren’t any good answers but I fully agree the players should be punished. Maybe hefty fines? They pay a price but don’t hurt their current team. I don’t know…

Cheaters are the worst humans possible. If you were a poor individual that was trying to feed your family it’s at least a lil understandable yet still wrong, millionaire players and multi million ballclubs cheating is inexcusable, and this goes for all sports. Yet they need to protect “the game” and these players.

Each person caught cheating pays back their entire years pay to a charity, mlb gets zero fine money for not taking care of their business, and the clubs and players get all records stripped of that year and no possible HOF ever.

But the cases would go on forever…..good let em. They have the money for it

Never would happen again. And the league would shows it cares about the integrity and not the dollar bills.

So are you going to penalize the pitchers and the last bench player also? The pitchers may have benefited but likely had little involvement. The bench players might have only had a 100 at bats. Are these players as guilty as the everyday starters? It’s a big can of worms and MLB won’t come after the players now anyway.

While these players won’t be branded cheaters as much as Pete Rose they will still have the stink on them forever.

MLB.com posted their top 10 catchers and second basemen and Garver was in the 4th spot and Arraez was 10th. That’s MLB wide (both leagues).

Completely agree with Garver’s position. He had an incredible year and hopefully we will get to see him play in more than just over 90 games this season.

I’m not so sure about Arraez. Sure he was a huge catalyst for the team and I love how he hits the ball where it’s pitched, but there are a lot of great second basemen out there. Either way, it’s nice to see some Twins players popping up on these lists.

Twinks traded Ryne Harper today to Washington for a minor league pitcher.

Dutchboy wrote:

Twinks traded Ryne Harper today to Washington for a minor league pitcher.

They DFA’d him to make room for Donaldson so he would’ve been claimed off waivers by someone most likely, so why not take a flyer on a young arm for him.

He was a nice story for the first few months of the season.

So heres your next starting pitcher.

By the trade deadline Dusty Baker will have nearly killed Greinke in Houston. His arm will be sore but he will be ready to be traded. Be a perfect pick-up for a spot starter which Levine will think we need.

Interesting hire by the “Leader of Analytics” the Astros. Dusty is pretty old school for an organization like that.

https://www.twinkietown.com/2020/2/1/21118400/mlb-minnesota-twins-news-reportedly-signing-jhoulys-chacin-starting-pitcher-rotation-free-agent

A #5 starter or bullpen piece?

These guys love reclamation projects with a upside of 7 wins.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Why is nobody talking about Brusdar Graterol as a potential option for the starting rotation. He was a starter before he got called up last year and probably has the most electric stuff and best chance to possibly being an ace. Why use that guys arm for just 6th or 7th inning stuff.

There were a couple articles about that recently. A combination of he’s still green (21 y/o and 10 innings at the MLB level) and has a steep enough learning curve and history of arm injuries that will keep him in the bullpen… for now.

Graterol has the big arm, but hasn’t pitched more than about 100 innings in a minor league season, some years a lot less than that because of those previous injuries.

A lot of people think his mechanics need fine tuning as he has a tendency to overthrow at times. Instead of throwing 99mph, learn to pitch and still be dominant at 96. He might be a Tommy John injury waiting to happen. He probably will need the surgery at some point… and I think just let it happen, lose a year and hopefully be done with it.

But the Twins want to win this year and utilize his arm in the process, but have him around late in the season when it counts… keep him to 50-70 innings out of the pen.

I think they would prefer him to get his experience in the bullpen. Learn how to pitch with more than the fastball. Learn his way around the big leagues. He is young, I would think in 2 years he is either a starter or the teams closer.

They have said that Graterol will be in the bullpen. As much as I hate hearing this it’s probably the best option for him. I hate how all of our high end pitching prospects always get moved to the bullpen and willow away in mediocrity, however with Graterol and his injury history and how hard he throws he would never make it as a starter. His arm would blow up again after one season.

I think part of the reason you haven’t heard anything is he got lit up at times last year. It doesn’t matter how hard you throw, if you stick it the same place every-time at the same speed these guys will hit you. I think some seasoning time in the bullpen will be good for him. Remember, they can start him anytime they think he is ready.

I wonder if service time will play into his starting with the Twins or in Triple A?

Dutchboy wrote:

I think part of the reason you haven’t heard anything is he got lit up at times last year. It doesn’t matter how hard you throw, if you stick it the same place every-time at the same speed these guys will hit you.

Once upon a time there was a guy named Pat Mahomes that pitched for the Twins. He didn’t throw quite as hard as Graterol, but close. As good as his arm was, he threw very straight and “pretty much stuck it in the same place every time at the same speed.”

Despite a strong arm, he didn’t stick in the majors very long… wonder if he would have made a better quarterback than a pitcher ?!?

I know his kid made the right decision.

MLB Network will be running the top 100 players in baseball right now. I think it airs next week. Will any Twinks make the top 100? Maybe Cruz as DH? Donaldson? Berrios?

Spring training in a couple weeks!

Cruz will probably be the only one.

Some reports are saying the Twins are the 3rd team in the monster Sox-Dodgers deal that was supposedly sending Price and Betts to LAD.

Others are saying the Angels are the 3rd team.

Did the Twins just land Price?