mahto, my guy, you were sure born in the wrong era werent you? The days of analytics, shifts, openers, and short starts have replaced the archaic sac bunts, “hitting it the other way”, and throw til your arm hurts philosophies, eh?
Thank god 
(Jack Morris is a buffoon btw)
Jack Morris is a buffoon? He played baseball how it was meant to be played. You are obviously too young to have watched him pitch. He pitched probably the best game in world series history in 1991 when he shut out the Braves 1-0 in 10 innings to win the Twins the World Series.
Jack Morris can be a starting pitcher on my team any day of the week. He’s a winner.
Tbro I know you think you’re smarter than everyone on here but Jack Morris too?
You’re right, I am too young, his career was about over by the time I was born. Never watched him pitch but his numbers don’t lie. Phenomenal pitcher, no doubt.
All I know him for is him babbling in the booth. He believes the way the game was played in the 80s is the only way it should be played. Pitchers are soft for not pitching the entire game, bunting the runner to 3rd should be automatic, and shifts are crooked and should be outlawed. He sounds SO anti-baseball in the booth whenever he announces.
Thankfully hes not in the Twins’ booth too terribly often though 
He played in the era of the way the game had been played from the beginning. He didn’t need a pitch count, he didn’t need to know if Trammel was better going to his left or right. He just needed his team to score more runs then the other team. If they did the team won. You win enough you get in the play-offs where anything and anybody can win. You lose and you don’t get in the play-offs. So he is one of those guys who understand the game is about winning.
I know it’s a hard concept to grasp but some actually believe that.
Tbro it’s not too late for you to become a brewer’s fans. Maybe they would appreciate the analytics. I’m sure the twins fans would appreciate sharing an opinion without your objection following.
Go pack go!
Tbro I know you think you’re smarter than everyone on here but Jack Morris too?
It’s kinda cute actually, it’s like watching new parents when they really have no idea how it’s about to go but they think they do so they try to tell you what’s “going to happen”.
We’ll talk in 10yrs when tbro gets a few more years of “patience” under his belt and see what kind of analytics he has for why his analytics haven’t worked for the past decade.
You’re right, I am too young, his career was about over by the time I was born. Never watched him pitch but his numbers don’t lie. Phenomenal pitcher, no doubt.
All I know him for is him babbling in the booth. He believes the way the game was played in the 80s is the only way it should be played. Pitchers are soft for not pitching the entire game, bunting the runner to 3rd should be automatic, and shifts are crooked and should be outlawed. He sounds SO anti-baseball in the booth whenever he announces.
Thankfully hes not in the Twins’ booth too terribly often though
I wish he was in the booth for every Twins game. Not much of a baseball fan are you? Jack Morris’s numbers are a reflection of the quality of the teams he played on, not his quality of pitching.
Antibaseball? Jack Morris played the game how Abner Doubleday envisioned it should be played when he invented the game.
I figured I’d tickle a few boomer feathers with that one 
I figured I’d tickle a few boomer feathers with that one
I’m no boomer but have been around long enough to know that your comment regarding Jack Morris was extremely ignorant. He’s forgotten more about baseball than most keyboard warriors on IDO will ever know in their lifetime.
Again, swinging and missing on my point. I’m aware he was a great pitcher. Im aware he is knowledgeable about baseball- much more than any of us will ever be. I’m saying hes a terrible announcer. End of story. Relax folks.
Man, winter IDO has no remorse!! Sheesh
Funny, I’ve never seen a Brewers thread on here.
How many World Series have they won?
Again, swinging and missing on my point. I’m aware he was a great pitcher. Im aware he is knowledgeable about baseball- much more than any of us will ever be. I’m saying hes a terrible announcer. End of story. Relax folks.
Man, winter IDO has no remorse!! Sheesh
Tbro, your true colors have finally shown! Jack Morris is the best color man they have. I wish he announced every game. He single handedly picks out everything that is wrong with the Twins pitching staff. They refuse to pitch hard inside (which negates power hitting, which is all that matters in todays game), and instead they throw off speed inside which is a recipe for disaster. He is the only person in that booth that isn’t drinking the Kool aide and actually calls the game the way it is playing out on the field. No excuses, just truth.
By the way, he’s the only reason your Twins club has two WS championships. He has the single most impressive game on the mound in the history of the game. He knows more about baseball then any of the analytics guys that have never stepped foot on the field hope to know. I bet Jack Morris could put together a team of players and play against a team put together by analytics “experts” and Morris’ team would win 8/10 times.
Wonder how many of your analytics even matter anymore since the top analytics organization was full of cheaters anyway……I think you’re numbers are probably skewed….
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one here that found your comment absolutely ridiculous.
BTW if pitchers were still throwing 7+ innings a game we wouldn’t be having all these tommy john surgeries. Pitchers would actually have the arm strength and build (of their arm) to handle such workloads. Now they come up and just hit the gym and think their arm can handle throwing 100 mph with out going out and playing long toss for a half hour every day. They don’t condition the same way and it shows in all the arm problems. I know you’ll think there’s no possible way that’s true but it is.
Morris is in the hall because he pitched a ridiculous game 7, 10 inning win in the world series. It was a great moment, but the rest of his resume is completely pedestrian.
He was an above average pitcher for his entire career. The definition of an innings eater. That is all.
Mahtofire, c’mon man, if pitchers threw 7+ innings nowadays they wouldn’t need Tommy John? How in the world can you back that opinion up? Pitchers throw harder now, and if they didn’t throw that hard, they wouldn’t be in the majors.
I’d bet harder on the early specialization in sports than the fact that they don’t throw 7 innings in the majors.
I completely believe it. When I was learning the game, arm strength was taught, not total body strength. You threw and threw and threw. To build arm strength. Now all that matters is getting as big as you can so you can hit the ball out of the state. Guess what, you’re arm isn’t designed to throw a ball 100mph AND tow all that extra muscle along with it also. I played through college baseball and have friends that played in the majors. In my time going through the game, I maybe saw three people need tommy john. On my teams and other teams in our conferences. Yes I know it’s not in the majors and its different there. HOWEVER, more and more high school and college pitchers are needing tommy john because they aren’t conditioning their arm. These are the guys we are now seeing enter the minors and MLB and what do you know, every other pitcher out there has had Tommy John at some point in his amateur or professional career. This isn’t just my take either. Doesn’t matter to me if you don’t believe it.
PS: I don’t think Morris should be in the HOF either. But you can’t say the man doesn’t know baseball and listening to him talk about the game and how dead on he is with the pitching issues of the Twins is a breath of fresh air. I wish he was calling pitches instead of our catchers. Doesn’t seem to be many people in our organization that understand pitch selection and location lately.
Man IDO is angry this winter. Bad ice conditions are making everyone cranky.
Jack Morris was undoubtedly a very good pitcher whose career was defined by one great game. He belongs in the Hall of Very Good. He’s awful in the booth because his disdain for the game is harmful for the growth of baseball. Kids watching are getting 9 innings of “This was better back in the day. That was better back in the day. My dad could beat up your dad.” If he could apply his baseball knowledge to lend insight rather than just constantly trashing the sport it would be preferable.
Throwing long toss and strength training will not stop TJ surgery (ligament). Pitchers are throwing harder and going for higher spin rates by torquing their arm more. It’s not (EDIT: solely) a strength issue.
EDIT: I also think Phil makes a good point about specialization at a young age.
Throwing long toss and strength training will not stop TJ surgery (ligament). Pitchers are throwing harder and going for higher spin rates by torquing their arm more. It’s not a strength issue.
Thanks for the kineseology lesson. More strength around the joint equals more stable joint (which includes ligaments). The more stretching and conditioning of that ligament and the area around it makes it more pliable and structurally sound.
Totally not-related to Tommy John causes, but I remember reading some horrifying stories a few years back about all the misconceptions around TJ surgery.
Mainly, parents trying to get doctors to perform TJ surgery on their kids to ‘get it out of the way’ and because they thought it would help their kids get into the majors. Which is…absolutely terrifying. Poor kids…
Here’s an interseting SI article about TJ surgery rates in youths:
https://www.si.com/edge/2015/07/30/examining-tommy-john-surgery-youth-baseball-mlb
I think at the end of the day, the human body was not designed to throw a baseball 100mph, or a 90 mph slider.
And I’m totally on board with Jack Morris knowing a lot about baseball, never would argue otherwise. But he’s one of those guys that completely denounces any ‘new-age’ changes to the game. I have no problem if someone doesn’t like stats or analytics or whatever, but at least have a good reason. But “I don’t understand it and won’t make an effort to” or, “It wasn’t like that when I played” isn’t really a good reason.
Morris is just a product of his environment, like many of us are. When he grew up in St. Paul you didn’t specialize, you played all the sports. When you were his age the studs were Gibson, Drysdale, Koufax, You threw hard, you threw high & tight. There was more to be gained by hitting a guy (fear factor) then walking a guy. Because of how they pitched there were more low scoring one run games. So bunting, hit & run & moving runners over had more value.
That all changed with free agency and the ability of players to earn more. Players became more concerned with getting hurt or hurting others. Hard baseball became a thing of the past.
Tommy John is also a result of free agency. Kids throw harder, parents push them into leagues they aren’t ready for all in the pursuit of the all mighty dollar. If you can get yourself to the major leagues as a starter and get a couple years in before Tommy John and than get you short rehab year and then go to the bullpen you are set for life. You will have gotten at least one crack at free agency and have enough vested time for the pension.
It’s a different game for several reasons and those are just a couple in my opinion.
Totally not-related to Tommy John causes, but I remember reading some horrifying stories a few years back about all the misconceptions around TJ surgery.
Mainly, parents trying to get doctors to perform TJ surgery on their kids to ‘get it out of the way’ and because they thought it would help their kids get into the majors. Which is…absolutely terrifying. Poor kids…
Here’s an interseting SI article about TJ surgery rates in youths:
https://www.si.com/edge/2015/07/30/examining-tommy-john-surgery-youth-baseball-mlbI think at the end of the day, the human body was not designed to throw a baseball 100mph, or a 90 mph slider.
And I’m totally on board with Jack Morris knowing a lot about baseball, never would argue otherwise. But he’s one of those guys that completely denounces any ‘new-age’ changes to the game. I have no problem if someone doesn’t like stats or analytics or whatever, but at least have a good reason. But “I don’t understand it and won’t make an effort to” or, “It wasn’t like that when I played” isn’t really a good reason.
I remember seeing those stories too. But that all goes back to my original theory. It’s “oh, we’ll just have Tommy John surgery to fix you back up.” They aren’t preaching arm strength to kids or high school and college players anymore. When all you’re asked to do now is throw 10-20 pitches every three days so that you can throw 100 miles and hour, your arm isn’t able to handle that. I agree that no arm is able to handle that. However, the majority of the pitchers out there throw 90-95 and with better arm conditioning we would see less elbow injuries and pitchers would actually learn how to pitch again instead of throwing as hard as they can wherever they can. There’s a reason pitchers that throw over 95 have to LEARN how to pitch once their velocity drops. They only threw the ball as hard as they could without much though on where it was going.
I’m not saying it’s the end all be all answer. But I really do think it would limit arm injuries.
Totally not-related to Tommy John causes, but I remember reading some horrifying stories a few years back about all the misconceptions around TJ surgery.
Mainly, parents trying to get doctors to perform TJ surgery on their kids to ‘get it out of the way’ and because they thought it would help their kids get into the majors. Which is…absolutely terrifying. Poor kids…
Here’s an interseting SI article about TJ surgery rates in youths:
https://www.si.com/edge/2015/07/30/examining-tommy-john-surgery-youth-baseball-mlbI think at the end of the day, the human body was not designed to throw a baseball 100mph, or a 90 mph slider.
And I’m totally on board with Jack Morris knowing a lot about baseball, never would argue otherwise. But he’s one of those guys that completely denounces any ‘new-age’ changes to the game. I have no problem if someone doesn’t like stats or analytics or whatever, but at least have a good reason. But “I don’t understand it and won’t make an effort to” or, “It wasn’t like that when I played” isn’t really a good reason.
I remember seeing those stories too. But that all goes back to my original theory. It’s “oh, we’ll just have Tommy John surgery to fix you back up.” They aren’t preaching arm strength to kids or high school and college players anymore. When all you’re asked to do now is throw 10-20 pitches every three days so that you can throw 100 miles and hour, your arm isn’t able to handle that. I agree that no arm is able to handle that. However, the majority of the pitchers out there throw 90-95 and with better arm conditioning we would see less elbow injuries and pitchers would actually learn how to pitch again instead of throwing as hard as they can wherever they can. There’s a reason pitchers that throw over 95 have to LEARN how to pitch once their velocity drops. They only threw the ball as hard as they could without much thought on where it was going.
I’m not saying it’s the end all be all answer. But I really do think it would limit arm injuries.
Also just to get the speculation started, here are the notable 2021 starting pitching free agents:
Marcus Strohman
Mike Minor
Jake Odorizzi
Robbie Ray
James Paxton
Trevor Bauer
Masahiro Tanaka
Jose Quintana
Not too many top notch arms, but definitely some solid options that would be a nice upgrade in our rotation.
However, after reading the latest piece by the Twins beat writer, the “Twins lofty improvement last season and getting the immediate upgrades from Bailey and Hill” doesn’t warrant much needed improvement. He actually said “especially Hill” when talking about immediate improvement. Not sure this guy is even following the team.
On that list there is maybe one possible “ace” and a handfull of #2’s and a bunch of 3’s even on the Twinks.
No thanks, I’ll pass on the whole bunch for what they will cost.
That’s why the whole “wait until 20xx” isn’t a great plan. You may be dealing with the free agent class that there is, not the one you want.
I would take, Ray, Minor, or Paxton.
I would also, but I wouldn’t label any of those 3 “aces”. Just more 2’s & 3’s.
I would also, but I wouldn’t label any of those 3 “aces”. Just more 2’s & 3’s.
My original post said there weren’t really any top notch arms out there. That’s for sure. But any of those three would greatly help this staff. If they got two out of the three I’d even buy tickets again.
There is little doubt more 2’s & 3’s improves what we have now. I guess we will need TBRO’s analytics to tell us they are all better than what we have now.
He’s awful in the booth because his disdain for the game is harmful for the growth of baseball. Kids watching are getting 9 innings of “This was better back in the day. That was better back in the day. My dad could beat up your dad.” If he could apply his baseball knowledge to lend insight rather than just constantly trashing the sport it would be preferable.
Thank you for properly explaining my exact thoughts, I couldnt have said it any better myself. Its just frustrating for me to listen to him talk about how baseball players in his day were so much bigger, better, faster, stronger, and smarter about the game then than they are now, when that, in my opinion, is vehemently false. I just wish FSN would be better about education on the “new age” baseball we are just beginning to see in their broadcasts instead of Morris up there absolutely trashing it.
But careful moustachesteve, dont mention high spin rates. Thats considered analytics. It’s not accepted here.
Well………..the analytics guys make my head hurt. So, maybe in 10 years when the analytics guys become the demographic that Fox wants they can hire Brian Kenny to do the games. Hopefully I’ll be dead by then.
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