I suspect you’ll see a trade or two for some more pitching talent once the season gets underway and we can see what pitchers survived spring training injury free… I’ve always been a huge fan of Donaldson, this lineup is just scary now if guys can stay healthy, no lead is safe against this team…let’s go!
Rosario and a prospect or two for a starter would be fine with me. I think a move or two like that will happen soon.
“And trading a guy they JUST signed long term? You cant be serious”
Not an uncommon strategy to sign younger players to longer term, team friendly contracts so that they are attractive trade bait later on. Yes, hard to think that $10m/year is cheap but it’s becoming so.
I think there is better than 50% chance Sano blows up in the next 3 years (weight, injury, off field stuff) and if the right deal were out there before a problem occurs I’d send him packing. Would we get a good starting pitcher for him, probably not… but a lot of teams will always be looking for a guy that can hit the ball 475 feet, even if the rest of the body of work needs liposuction..
Completely agree Frydog. The part of his body I worry about the most is the little round part on top of his shoulders. Once he puts together a full year, I’ll start believing. Same deal with Berrios. Put a full year together before crowning him.
What do you mean youre waiting for Sano to put together a full year? Sano has been an above average hitter in 4 of the 5 years of his career. We know he strikes out a lot, hes a poor baserunner, cant field a ground ball to save his life.. but so does everyone else. His value in MN is much higher than it would be anywhere else. Certainly not going to trade a longterm 1B/DH type guy for a SP that will end up in the rotation. Twins signing him to a good, team friendly deal makes him WAY less likely to be traded than the other way around.
And no to Berrios? All we see on this forum is NO PITCHING blah blah FALVINE SUCK blah blah but not willing to sign the only pitcher the Twins have thats worth half a sh!t long term?! What?!? I’d argue Berrios is the most important player the Twins have in their entire system right now. If they want anything to do with winning a playoff series this decade, I think it rides on Berrios shoulders more than anyone else. They’ve got to do everyone they can (and then some) to sign him to a long term deal.
What do you mean youre waiting for Sano to put together a full year? Sano has been an above average hitter in 4 of the 5 years of his career. We know he strikes out a lot, hes a poor baserunner, cant field a ground ball to save his life.. but so does everyone else. His value in MN is much higher than it would be anywhere else. Certainly not going to trade a longterm 1B/DH type guy for a SP that will end up in the rotation. Twins signing him to a good, team friendly deal makes him WAY less likely to be traded than the other way around.
And no to Berrios? All we see on this forum is NO PITCHING blah blah FALVINE SUCK blah blah but not willing to sign the only pitcher the Twins have thats worth half a sh!t long term?! What?!? I’d argue Berrios is the most important player the Twins have in their entire system right now. If they want anything to do with winning a playoff series this decade, I think it rides on Berrios shoulders more than anyone else. They’ve got to do everyone they can (and then some) to sign him to a long term deal.
We were finally starting to see eye to eye and there you go putting words in my mouth!
First of all….No, Sano has not put together a good FULL season. He has one or two good months and then he is hitting .212 with a K ever 2 ABs the rest of the time. Highest number of games played? 117. Still waiting for the FULL SEASON of consistency.
As for Berrios, I never said I didn’t want him. I do want him and I want him to show us he can be a possible number one starter for more than two months of the season. He’s average the rest of the season. All I ask is for some consistency tbro, before we start claiming these guys are the most important players in the system and unmovable. That kind of thinking is why we are stuck in sports mediocrity here in MN.
Berrios should be following a good #1 starter, it shouldn’t be his job to lead a staff. He isn’t mentally ready or I don’t think physically able to be a horse either. He likely will have a decent career if they get him some help. If they think him & Oderizzi and a bucket of balls will work I think they are wrong.
But hey, you guys can roll out a load of worthless stats to make your case. But if wins isn’t on the top of your list I quit listening.
Berrios should be following a good #1 starter, it shouldn’t be his job to lead a staff. He isn’t mentally ready or I don’t think physically able to be a horse either. He likely will have a decent career if they get him some help. If they think him & Oderizzi and a bucket of balls will work I think they are wrong.
But hey, you guys can roll out a load of worthless stats to make your case. But if wins isn’t on the top of your list I quit listening.
I agree with everything you said except Berrios not being physically able to be a workhorse. The guy is constantly in the gym, keeps himself at peak fitness levels, and his mechanics are extremely smooth and effortless. I don’t see him having too many injuries in his career. But you never know.
“I’d argue Berrios is the most important player the Twins have in their entire system right now. If they want anything to do with winning a playoff series this decade, I think it rides on Berrios shoulders more than anyone else.”
Therein lies the rub… Berrios is a #2/#3 caliber starter and relying on him and the other starting pitchers a notch below him will get us bounced in the first round of the playoffs again, no mater how potent of an offense we put together.
Strong starting pitching in the current playoff format with days off during the series, will almost always trump a potent offense with mediocre pitching. You need two #1 starter-types or at least one #1 and two #2’s IMO to win consistently against the best teams in MLB.
To win a WS this year, I agree, Berrios would have to be a #2 or #3 in the rotation. Keep in mind hes just 25. He Doesnt even have 600 innings to his name yet. Patience.
This all comes back to my “go for it in 2022 or 2023” take. Again, Berrios is not at all the problem here.
Kudos to the Twinkies on the signing, especially for the discounted price from what was originally reported! Now let’s add a couple $20m+ pitchers this year via trade or next and get serious about going all the way!!!
Never will happen. Make these lil splash trades to get ya excited then milk it out. Pohlads know how to manipulate you into a seat.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
Kudos to the Twinkies on the signing, especially for the discounted price from what was originally reported! Now let’s add a couple $20m+ pitchers this year via trade or next and get serious about going all the way!!!Never will happen. Make these lil splash trades to get ya excited then milk it out. Pohlads know how to manipulate you into a seat.
100% agreed and that was my first post on this thread that apparently offended a few people.
But hey, you guys can roll out a load of worthless stats to make your case. But if wins isn’t on the top of your list I quit listening.
Total team wins or pitcher wins? Because total wins for the team is obviously important. Pitcher wins is a terrible stat and you know it.
Yes of course Phil, you are right. Like I said I quit listening.
For those “patient” fans out there, just a few more years on to a few more years on to a few more years on to a few more years on to a few ……
2002 they snuck in one home win to the WS champs in the alcs but from game 2 on it was over. This team hasn’t been able to compete for a WS title since they won their last.
I’ll leave these threads alone now bc I know I’m a Debbie downer on em but I truly enjoy baseball, still my favorite sport, just refuse to have millionaires make money off my fanship even if it hurts a lil.
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So exactly when did the Polhads or any of the other owners give up their right to make a profit?
Twins compete over a schedule longer than any other team in town. They get ripped for not winning the World Series more often. Ask the people in Milwaukee, Chicago (white sux) Chicago (Cubs) Cleveland, Kansas City, LA Angels, La Dodgers ect. how would they like their team to have 2 World Series wins since 1987?
Yep it would be great if the Twins were in the World Series every year. Yes it would be great if the Vikings won the Super Bowl, Wild?? What do they do? Timberwolves…….you got to be kidding me.
Facts are facts. The Twins generally put a pretty decent product on the field 60% of the time since the Pohlads bought them. I was as anti Carl Pohlad as anybody on earth. But the Pohlads are bankers first and foremost. They are in the business of making money. If competing isn’t good enough then some guys here should pick another team…..become Yankee fans maybe. Otherwise be happy when they sign some guys to try and get better. Be mad when the pitching sucks, be made when the Yankees beat them. Thats what fans do. But being mad just because you don’t think they spend enough when the pay-roll tops 100 million just seems crazy to me.
As always you guys can get a group together and buy the Twins. They are for sale. Then you can spend all the money you would like. This isn’t football where you can turn the whole roster over every 4 years. Baseball needs a player base and you add when you can and when you think you should.
BTW, SPRING TRAINING IS LESS THEN A MONTH AWAY. 
You look at that record and consider it a decent product OVERALL?
It is business Dutch, absolutely agree. You want me to drop couple grand on some season Tix, buy $10 beers and $75 jerseys you dam right I need to see something more.
Fact is you can still make a very nice profit as an owner and still spend the $$ WHEN NEEDED.
So exactly when did the Polhads or any of the other owners give up their right to make a profit?
Never, and no one is saying they shouldn’t profit, just that they should put more of the revenue into the team and profit a little less. And they gave up their ability to be so overwhelmingly greedy when they strong armed Hennepin county into paying $700 million for their stadium, which increased their assets worth by hundreds of millions, and when the unearned revenue (money from the league) exceeds their payroll meaning the Pohlad’s pocket $100m+ every year. Not to mention the current Pohlads are not bankers or anything but spoiled rich kids, I think a little criticism is warranted. Also, these same rich kids own the soccer team which somehow found a way to build that stadium (with everlasting Tax free status too).
Patience.
There! There it is again! That GD Twins moto!!!! 
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
Patience.There! There it is again! That GD Twins moto!!!!
Can’t have patience with cornerstones of your franchise? If they don’t produce in the first 2-3 years they should be given up on? Is that what you’re saying?
And of course Phil, a pitchers wins is the ONLY stat that matters. Are you new here? 
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tbro16 wrote:</div>
Patience.There! There it is again! That GD Twins moto!!!!
Can’t have patience with cornerstones of your franchise? If they don’t produce in the first 2-3 years they should be given up on? Is that what you’re saying?
And of course Phil, a pitchers wins is the ONLY stat that matters. Are you new here?
You seem to be forgetting prospects from the years 1992-2018 that we are still waiting to see develop……
A pitching prospect that failed in 1992 has absolutely no say on what may or may not happen with Berrios. He had a fantastic age 25 season, hes got what it takes to become the #1 ace the Twins need. Like I’ve said before, whole new regime up and down the entire system from 3 years ago. Went from 59-103 with a very poor farm system to 101-61 and very good farm system. Ownership will hold them back, yes, but if that’s your issue you’d better become a yankees fan. Theres reason to be optimistic.
A pitching prospect that failed in 1992 has absolutely no say on what may or may not happen with Berrios. He had a fantastic age 25 season, hes got what it takes to become the #1 ace the Twins need. Like I’ve said before, whole new regime up and down the entire system from 3 years ago. Went from 59-103 with a very poor farm system to 101-61 and very good farm system. Ownership will hold them back, yes, but if that’s your issue you’d better become a yankees fan. Theres reason to be optimistic.
Sure there’s reason to be optimistic. I’ve just seen it fail every time so I choose to believe it when I see it actually happen.
By the way…..Berrios had a great 2 months in his age 25 season. The rest was average or MAYBE slightly above. Hence, why I would like to see some consistency before I start making bold statements.
By the way…..Berrios had a great 2 months in his age 25 season. The rest was average or MAYBE slightly above. Hence, why I would like to see some consistency before I start making bold statements.
Through July, Berrios threw 142 innings, ERA of 2.80, and 8.4 K/9. That’s 4+ months of putting up near cy young-like numbers. Of his 22 starts, 16 were considered “quality” if you’re into that type of thing. And just for you Dutchy, he had a record of 10-5.
So far in his young career, his biggest issue is running into trouble beginning in august. Likely some sort of arm fatigue as we saw a significant decrease in velocity at that time last year. Luckily, it rebounded in Sep/Oct. I agree he needs to fix that issue before he can be a WS contending teams ace though.
In my mind there is a difference between a “ace” and a #1 starter. A ace is somebody I hand the ball to in game 7 and know I’m likely to get 7 or 8 solid innings. Think a Scherzer, DeGrom, Bumgardner, Smoltz, Maddox type guy.
A #1 is the best your staff has. Twins have Berrios as a #1 more by default then by talent. I’m not saying he won’t become a true #1 or even a ace someday, but for me today he is a only the best we have.
And before you start ripping on me there are only a small handful of true “aces” in all of major league baseball. I understand that.
My point isn’t that Berrios isn’t good….he is. It’s just in my mind I don’t see him as a staff “ace”. I seldom go into a game he starts thinking “ok we got this for sure” it’s more like if “the good Berrios shows up we got a good shot”.
Anyway, I haven’t heard (yet) of the Twinks being connected to the Houston cheating scandal so I suppose thats good. 
Agreed Dutchy. Berrios is the Twins’ #1 by default but he shouldnt be considered a league-wide “ace”, atleast not yet anyway. I agree with you that there is that difference. The difference between mahto and I I think is the chances of him developing into the ace the Twins need him to become. Im quite confident, whereas he doesnt seem to be as much.
So far the only connection to Houston in 2017 that I’m aware of is Marwin Gonzalez. That year, Marwin had head and shoulders his best hitting season. I wonder if the Twins offer him the contract they did if he didnt have that year, likely due to cheating. If not him, the Twins were hot and heavy in on DJ LaMahieu long before they were in on Gonzalez (and Schoop) last offseason. A lot of “what ifs” in this scenario… but bummer.
I’m surprised it took this long for the cheating scandal to hit this thread. I don’t know about the rest of you but I would like to see players punished* as well. The asterisk is because the caveat would need to be you’d have to find a way to prove they did it, which might be very hard to do.
My main reason for this is for everyone that benefited from this (Astros in general, Gonzalez as Tbro mentioned) others had to pay a price, and for some that may have been financially. Yu Darvish got bood by LA and his reputation took a hit, and it all could have been because hitters knew what he was throwing. In the Gonzalez example, if his numbers were better because he knew what was coming then there are pitchers who have worse numbers because of it. Those guys have had to sit with team management and negotiate for their wages and may have come away with less money because of it. There are several current and former pitchers who are pretty livid knowing they possibly gave up some offensive numbers they maybe shouldn’t have.
I think Gonzales may have benefited, it would be hard not to. The fact he isn’t a “star” and he got out of there right away will save him from getting to much splatter from this. With Ruesse is semi retirement there isn’t any local reporters that would take to serious a swing at the Twins for this.
While Manfred did the right thing in hitting Crane and the Astro’s hard I don’t think he has the stomach to take on the players union with the collective bargaining agreement set to end soon. The damage to the players reputations will take a hit but not nearly as bad as Hinch and Cora, Beltran. Being a Cardinals fan I find it interesting Luhnow was fired. His baseball career is over I think. He was tainted from the fiasco with the Cardinal when the Astro’s first hired him. And now this.
Quality starts haven’t meant anything since they got changed to 6 innings for these pansy a#$es these days.
Quality starts haven’t meant anything since they got changed to 6 innings for these pansy a#$es these days.
Bert, is that you?
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
Quality starts haven’t meant anything since they got changed to 6 innings for these pansy a#$es these days.Bert, is that you?
Nope. Mr. Morris actually…… 
Bert wouldn’t be able to spell pansy….
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