Twins 2020

Dan wrote:

But here is a legit fact: NOTHING the Twins have done is working, either.

How can you say that? Team won 59 games 3 years ago. Did you already forget how successful they were last year? Sure, no playoff wins sucks and something needs to be done about it. That something is what they need to determine before next October.

Cole, Strasburg, and likely Wheeler would have won them a playoff game but they were never going to consider MN. I think Bumgarner, Keuchel, and Ryu all improve the team a bit in 2020, meh in 2021, and put them wayyyy back in years ’22 and/or ’23.

If I’m Falvey/Levine I’m doing what it takes to sign Berrios and Buxton longterm first off. Theyll be making next to nothing until 2023 regardless. As will Polanco, Kepler, and Garver. Then you’ve got Kiriloff, Royce, Brusdar, and Balazovic in the minors that are all looking like they’ve got a legit chance to greatly improve the team in the coming years. I think you do everything you can to set yourself up for a legit WS run in maybe 2021 but most likely 2022 and 2023 while your current (loaded) roster is still young and VERY cheap. Still leaves you atleast $30-40, maybe $50 mil, depending on arbitration numbers, to sign your true ace or two in the coming offseasons assuming Pohlad sticks with his tight hold around Falvine’s (and the entire state of Twins fans’) balls with their expenses/payroll. This is why I have been preaching patience for the past year on these Twins chats.

Dan wrote:

You seem to think most of us on here are complete idiots

Dont at all mean to come off that way, I just have a very, very differing opinion on just about everything baseball than everyone else around here. I’m quite confident in my baseball knowledge and get frustrated when people dont agree with me lol. Sorry about it!!

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dan wrote:</div>
But here is a legit fact: NOTHING the Twins have done is working, either.

How can you say that? Team won 59 games 3 years ago. Did you already forget how successful they were last year? Sure, no playoff wins sucks and something needs to be done about it. That something is what they need to determine before next October.

Cole, Strasburg, and likely Wheeler would have won them a playoff game but they were never going to consider MN. I think Bumgarner, Keuchel, and Ryu all improve the team a bit in 2020, meh in 2021, and put them wayyyy back in years ’22 and/or ’23.

If I’m Falvey/Levine I’m doing what it takes to sign Berrios and Buxton longterm first off. Theyll be making next to nothing until 2023 regardless. As will Polanco, Kepler, and Garver. Then you’ve got Kiriloff, Royce, Brusdar, and Balazovic in the minors that are all looking like they’ve got a legit chance to greatly improve the team in the coming years. I think you do everything you can to set yourself up for a legit WS run in maybe 2021 but most likely 2022 and 2023 while your current (loaded) roster is still young and VERY cheap. Still leaves you atleast $30-40, maybe $50 mil, depending on arbitration numbers, to sign your true ace or two in the coming offseasons assuming Pohlad sticks with his tight hold around Falvine’s (and the entire state of Twins fans’) balls. This is why I have been preaching patience for the past year on these Twins chats.

IF they aren’t willing to sign a true ace now, why would they then? And why would they all of a sudden WANT TO COME HERE? Since none of them wanted to this time around. I don’t see that group of kids being as good as the lineup they had last year. Sure it’s possible but they just broke offensive records and that still wasn’t enough for them to commit to pitching. I don’t have any faith in this franchise to develop any starting pitcher no matter how much hype/talent they have. In my opinion all Berrios has done is show he can be a legit starter for two months out of the season. That’s it. They will end up turning Graderol into an 8th inning reliever so he’s off the board as an impact starter right there.

mahtofire14 wrote:

IF they aren’t willing to sign a true ace now, why would they then?

Did you miss my whole point of Ryu and Bumgarner making the Twins worse ins 2022 and 2023 when I think the Twins will have the best chance to win a WS?

mahtofire14 wrote:

I don’t have any faith in this franchise to develop any starting pitcher no matter how much hype/talent they have.

Falvey was the GM and co-director of operations of the Indians when they acquired the great, young pitching staff they currently have. Clevinger, Bieber, Civale, etc. The Twins pitching staff has greatly improved since they took over, give it more time. Even have new minor and major league pitching coordinators throughout. Rememeber, Terry Ryan is gone now. What happened in his tenure is irrelevant.

mahtofire14 wrote:

They will end up turning Graderol into an 8th inning reliever so he’s off the board as an impact starter right there.

There was an article about that in the Star trib in October after the season concluded. He could start the year in AA to get him back into the starting role. Too soon to tell.

And by the way, we just lost out on Betances to the Mets. That would’ve been nice to have in our pen. One year deal too…….

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
IF they aren’t willing to sign a true ace now, why would they then?

Did you miss my whole point of Ryu and Bumgarner making the Twins worse ins 2022 and 2023 when I think the Twins will have the best chance to win a WS?

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
I don’t have any faith in this franchise to develop any starting pitcher no matter how much hype/talent they have.

Falvey was the GM and co-director of operations of the Indians when they acquired the great, young pitching staff they currently have. Clevinger, Bieber, Civale, etc. The Twins pitching staff has greatly improved since they took over, give it more time. Even have new minor and major league pitching coordinators throughout. Rememeber, Terry Ryan is gone now. What happened in his tenure is irrelevant.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
They will end up turning Graderol into an 8th inning reliever so he’s off the board as an impact starter right there.

There was an article about that in the Star trib in October after the season concluded. He could start the year in AA to get him back into the starting role. Too soon to tell.

You really don’t think I know what I’m talking about do you Tbro? I read that article. I’ve talked to the Twins Daily guys and Aaron Gleeman quite regularly on twitter and go back and forth with them as well. I know what’s going on with the team. If I knew I’d still be having these debates with you in 3 years I’d bet you a Strikemaster 40V that Graterol will be coming out of the pen by then. We obviously know you and I have different opinions on this. But so far there is NOTHING to make me think anything will be changing in 2-3 years. Remember 2-3 years ago when they told us to wait until our current lineup was in place and would be contenders. Well here we are and it’s right back to, well let’s wait another 2-3 years. As Johan Santana famously said “They keep building for the future. Well, some of us may not be here in the future.”

Also, in Cleveland Falvey may have brought some of those pitchers in and may have even brought some of the coaches that developed those guys in. However he wasn’t the one on the field with those players coaching and developing them. Until they start developing pitchers here, not in the past in Cleveland, I won’t expect it to happen.

tbro16 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dan wrote:</div>
You seem to think most of us on here are complete idiots

Dont at all mean to come off that way, I just have a very, very differing opinion on just about everything baseball than everyone else around here. I’m quite confident in my baseball knowledge and get frustrated when people dont agree with me lol. Sorry about it!!

Speedhawk? Is that you?

I have said all along Cole, Wheeler, Bumgarner, Strasburg weren’t ever coming here. Other then to sell a couple of newspapers and however Twitter funds it’s self it was just babble to keep people talking baseball. I also don’t believe for one minute Donaldson is coming. Although out of the whole bunch he would be the best shot I suppose.

The problem with the 2-3 year window is it lines up directly with the White Sux window. It’s when their studs are also projected to arrive & thrive.

Best chance now is to swing a trade and hope Buxton stays healthy and produces. We can get somebody like Robby Ray at the deadline but he is nothing more than a #3 on even this team.

The writing is plainly on the wall. They will take their chances they can bash their way past their bad pitching yet again.

This season could be interesting.

White Sox just signed Edwin Encarnacion today. They WILL be able to score just as much as the Twins. Thank god they don’t have much pitching…..yet.

Gio, Keuchel, Rodon, Giolito, Reynaldo, Fulmer, Cease, Burdi, Kopech…I’d say that’s a damn good start. They’re definitely seizing the opportunity with a weak division and CLE probably on the way down.

At the risk of getting caught in the crossfire I agree with Tbro. I hear the rest of you guys; you just want to feel that they’re actually investing in the club. I’d bet many with that mentality were also the ones complaining about Joe’s contract, Nolasco, etc. As we all know there’s less room for big signings here so you better be damn sure about it when you pull the trigger. You’ll absolutely have to overpay in one way or the other. It’s just a matter of recognizing when the rest of your club is ready and that extra guy or two truly makes the difference in turning you into a legitimate contender. Falvene clearly didn’t think they were there yet last season.

moustachesteve wrote:

Gio, Keuchel, Rodon, Giolito, Reynaldo, Fulmer, Cease, Burdi, Kopech…I’d say that’s a damn good start. They’re definitely seizing the opportunity with a weak division and CLE probably on the way down.

At the risk of getting caught in the crossfire I agree with Tbro. I hear the rest of you guys; you just want to feel that they’re actually investing in the club. I’d bet many with that mentality were also the ones complaining about Joe’s contract, Nolasco, etc. As we all know there’s less room for big signings here so you better be damn sure about it when you pull the trigger. You’ll absolutely have to overpay in one way or the other. It’s just a matter of recognizing when the rest of your club is ready and that extra guy or two truly makes the difference in turning you into a legitimate contender. Falvene clearly didn’t think they were there yet last season.

I don’t disagree that these guys weren’t worth the money. There isn’t a pitcher alive that is worth one of the huge contracts they are getting these days. But when you come out and say you’re going to be aggressive in the starting pitching market and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you’re going to urine off a lot of people. We can argue til we are blue in the face but if they couldn’t/didn’t want to spend the money now I just don’t see them doing it down the road either. They’ll be waiting for that perfect scenario of the “right time to spend” for the next 20 years.

Contenders are built in the off season. Champions are built in July. They need to do something to keep them with-in striking distance at the trade deadline. At the deadline you can over-spend for a rental. To this point they have added nothing to make me believe they are better then at this point last year.

Dutchboy wrote:

Contenders are built in the off season. Champions are built in July. They need to do something to keep them with-in striking distance at the trade deadline. At the deadline you can over-spend for a rental. To this point they have added nothing to make me believe they are better then at this point last year.

I honestly think they are worse. For all the players on the roster that had a career year there is bound to be a drop off.

I still think our infield is going to have a ton of throwing errors if Sano is at first. I don’t know the exact stats but Cron must’ve saved over 30 throwing errors from the left side of our infield last season.

I’m sure the boy wonders have 1st & 3rd all figured out. Remember how smart they were proclaimed last summer? Genius, absolute genius.

Fun Fact: In the entire history of the Twins franchise they have won 100 games twice (1965 and 2019). I’m sure glad they are holding their cards tight and are patiently waiting for the window to open further

I grew up a Twins and Brewers fan and still support both as my two favorite teams. Both franchises are a long ways from a world series…but it seems the Twins and their supporters are willing to strikeout looking time and time again regarding personel moves, while at least the Brewers have swung a few times. Spending money foolishly isn’t the answer, I get that. However, the same old song about “near misses” in free agency and a “bright future” isn’t the answer either.

Lastly, to the lock up and sign Buxton long-term strategy posted by someone…sure he will be cheap. However, a turd from the bargain bin is still just a turd.

buckybadger wrote:

Fun Fact: In the entire history of the Twins franchise they have won 100 games twice (1965 and 2019). I’m sure glad they are holding their cards tight and are patiently waiting for the window to open further

I grew up a Twins and Brewers fan and still support both as my two favorite teams. Both franchises are a long ways from a world series…but it seems the Twins and their supporters are willing to strikeout looking time and time again regarding personel moves, while at least the Brewers have swung a few times. Spending money foolishly isn’t the answer, I get that. However, the same old song about “near misses” in free agency and a “bright future” isn’t the answer either.

Lastly, to the lock up and sign Buxton long-term strategy posted by someone…sure he will be cheap. However, a turd from the bargain bin is still just a turd.

Buxton has shown he can play. He just hasn’t shown he can stay healthy. I don’t think that makes him a turd……just a soft turd….

moustachesteve wrote:

I’d bet many with that mentality were also the ones complaining about Joe’s contract

I’d be the exception to that bet. And the pages on the Twins yearly threads will back that up. It actually frustrates me a lot that a solid, HOF-caliber player like Mauer gets the blame that he does. He became a scapegoat for anger that should’ve gone toward the Pohlads. Joe signed a very good player-friendly contract but I would assume, with his competitiveness and the history of successes he had growing up, he wanted to win. He didn’t stop the Twins from building around him, the Twins did.

It blows my mind that even as the Twins reveal that they are who we thought they were for the past almost 30 years that fans, including some on here, still place blame on him (Mauer) for not going farther some of those years. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but since Mauer has retired there have been times the Twins have actually come in below the payroll numbers they had with him on the team. How do those naysayers explain that one? If Mauer truly was the “reason” they would’ve used the payroll $$ to make up for it after he left and launched themselves to the ALCS or better. Heck, the front office and ownership were probably quietly glad whenever they heard people complain about Mauer’s contract holding the Twins back because it took some heat off them.

I realize I just “went there” and the Mauer debate could very well get worse than the Vikings/Packers threads (please no!). Just my thoughts.

Brewers might swing but they have as many World Series trophy’s as the Vikings have Super Bowl trophy’s.

The Twins are content playing with-in the confines of a business model designed to make money every year. Funny thing is they likely reaped the financial benefit of the ’87 & ’91 titles for years & years.

I don’t think anybody here thinks the Twins can, should or ever would spend like the Yankees, Red Sox or Phillies. They would just like management to show some pulse and a desire to compete.

As much as we complain about the Pohlads they throw money around like drunken sailors on leave compared to Griffith or even papa Carl for that matter.

Dan wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>moustachesteve wrote:</div>
I’d bet many with that mentality were also the ones complaining about Joe’s contract

I’d be the exception to that bet. And the pages on the Twins yearly threads will back that up. It actually frustrates me a lot that a solid, HOF-caliber player like Mauer gets the blame that he does. He became a scapegoat for anger that should’ve gone toward the Pohlads. Joe signed a very good player-friendly contract but I would assume, with his competitiveness and the history of successes he had growing up, he wanted to win. He didn’t stop the Twins from building around him, the Twins did.

It blows my mind that even as the Twins reveal that they are who we thought they were for the past almost 30 years that fans, including some on here, still place blame on him (Mauer) for not going farther some of those years. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but since Mauer has retired there have been times the Twins have actually come in below the payroll numbers they had with him on the team. How do those naysayers explain that one? If Mauer truly was the “reason” they would’ve used the payroll $$ to make up for it after he left and launched themselves to the ALCS or better. Heck, the front office and ownership were probably quietly glad whenever they heard people complain about Mauer’s contract holding the Twins back because it took some heat off them.

I realize I just “went there” and the Mauer debate could very well get worse than the Vikings/Packers threads (please no!). Just my thoughts.

I think the problem with the Mauer deal was they paid him after an MVP season, and in reality, they had to. They would have been tarred and feathered if they didn’t sign him. The problem was that Joe Mauer was not an MVP caliber player. He had one year in that category and the rest were injury riddled above average play. No he didn’t kill the team but he wasn’t worth that money either.

The thing that always bothered me about Mauer was that he had the talent to be that MVP player, he just didn’t want to be anything other than a contact/hit for average guy.

Mauer was a MVP, 3 time batting champion as a catcher which had never been done, multiple time all star, leader of the team, hometown boy, media darling and a top 10 player in the American League. Thats why he got paid. After he got paid is when the injury problems and concussions started. I would guess if you asked the Twins bean counters they would all say the more then paid for himself in merchandise, ticket sales and positive community involvement and media exposure.

There is not one currant Twin that has contributed to this team what Mauer did his first handful of years.

If Nelson Cruz keeps it up for two more years he will…..

Nope. He will never be a MVP. He will never sell the gear Mauer did. People will never show up to see Cruz like they did Mauer. He’s (Cruz) not a local guy.

Dutchboy wrote:

Nope. He will never be a MVP. He will never sell the gear Mauer did. People will never show up to see Cruz like they did Mauer. He’s (Cruz) not a local guy.

They showed up last season to see him,(sure wasn’t the pitching)…..Might not be local but HR’s put butts in the seats a lot more than singles whether you’re local or not. Mauer never drove in more than 90 runs in a season. Nelson Cruz has more 100 RBI seasons than every Twins rostered player combined since 2008! He can top 2 years of Mauer production in 1 season.

I don’t hate Joe Mauer and I’m really not arguing here, but people weren’t showing up to see Joe Mauer post 2011. Just look at the attendance numbers.

mahtofire14 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
Fun Fact: In the entire history of the Twins franchise they have won 100 games twice (1965 and 2019). I’m sure glad they are holding their cards tight and are patiently waiting for the window to open further

I grew up a Twins and Brewers fan and still support both as my two favorite teams. Both franchises are a long ways from a world series…but it seems the Twins and their supporters are willing to strikeout looking time and time again regarding personel moves, while at least the Brewers have swung a few times. Spending money foolishly isn’t the answer, I get that. However, the same old song about “near misses” in free agency and a “bright future” isn’t the answer either.

Lastly, to the lock up and sign Buxton long-term strategy posted by someone…sure he will be cheap. However, a turd from the bargain bin is still just a turd.

Buxton has shown he can play. He just hasn’t shown he can stay healthy. I don’t think that makes him a turd……just a soft turd….

“The most crucial ability to have is availability”

As a Twins fan, when people tell me that Buxton is the answer it’s very very hard for me to take them seriously. If you cannot stay healthy in your early to mid 20’s and your game relies exclusively on speed…your ceiling is inevitably quite low.

I’m glad the Hyun-Jin Ryu madness has passed on here and on the Twins’ subreddit. That lasted a good day. To think of him as ANY team’s highest paid player…

White Sox win the division this summer

Hoyt4 wrote:

White Sox win the division this summer

Are you a gambling man? If so, how much money ya want on it?

mahtofire14 wrote:

You really don’t think I know what I’m talking about do you Tbro?

Don’t think that at all mahto! Its clear how knowledgeable you are about the Twins and baseball in general. I was simply answering the questions you had asked to my previous post. And no, I have no idea (and frankly at this point, little faith) that Falvey/Levine do something extremely aggressive in the next few offseasons. I’m just cheering for them to at least have the opportunity vs. overpaying a pitcher I don’t necessarily think deserves to get overpaid and have it be the reason why they cant afford an ace then.

Mauer got paid for what he did pre 2011 as much as for what was ahead.

I don’t think it’s Falvene not being aggressive… I think it’s spending limits from the ownership and that top FA pitchers can choose where they play and don’t want to pitch in ultra cold temps for 2-3 months of the year (early spring/late fall).

Their ultimate goal is to pitch game 7 somewhere but not in November in Minnesota where it’s 38 degrees, snow banks along foul territory, ninja suits on and can see your breath.

With the WS going into November now, can you imagine what would have happened if the 1991 series would have been that late and outside at Target Field (30 inches of snow that Halloween)!